In reply to WJKAHN, consider all the good "progressive democrats" were able
to do before the Greens became strong enough to throw elections. Why just
think of the catastophe that would have resulted if the Greens had been stong
enough in 1992 to throw the election to Bush, Sr. Bush, Sr. would even have
ended welfare as we know it
Robert Halfhill Loring Park
http://halfhillblog.blogspot.com
http://halfhillviews.greatnow.com
http://www.thepen.us
-- David Shove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There aren't ANY Greens in the US presidency, or in the US Congress, or in
any state governorship, or mayor in any large city, or in the MN
Legislature, or in 48 other state legislatures. (There is ONE Green in the
Maine leg).
So please tell us how the GREENS can be responsible for all the evil in
the US political system. Or for all the evils of the decades before the
Green Party formed.
If your corporate parties have generated loads of crap, it's handy to be
able to dump it all at the doorstep of the Green Party. It's called
scapegoating - you try to make your enemy look bad by dumping all your
night soil on their heads.
What is clear is that the Green Party is gaining strength at the city
council level, and scaring the apathy out of old-line local timeservers.
And this is a very good thing. There should be more Greens on the City
Council, and then in the State Leg, and then Congress. Until then, we'll
just have more corporate theft masquerading as "free enterprise", aided
and abetted by their all-to-willing political puppets.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> "Rybak or McLaughlin: both will see that new unsustainable boondoggles
> (sports stadia and lots more roads) are built while vital sustainable
> infrastructure, education,, shelter and health issues are neglected. We
> need to go in a radically different direction than we are. Neither of the
> DFL endorsed candidates understand this. Neither will set a new course for
> Minneapolis. Same old same old," says Gary Hoover.
>
> "For example, our local politicians dutifully refuse....," says Hoover, and
> "our local politicians carefully refuse.....," he says again and again and
> again that they refuse.
>
> I suspect that every human culture on earth has been unsustainable right up
> to the present day; it has been one resource after another exhausted as we
> adopt newer technologies to exploit and exhaust the next. Native Americans
> wiped
> out an older and larger species of American Bison thousands of years before
> European immigrants came and nearly wiped out the current species; the record
> for
> similar patterns on other continents is clear. "Population blooms" as Hoover
> calls them, are not limited to the last few centuries we have been using
> fossil fuels, but they did used to resemble the predator/prey population
> graphs of
> scientists studying animals other than humans more; except that after periods
> of starving following depletion of a given resource with a studied MO or the
> occassional draught, humans eventually figure out how to move on to the next
> instead of dying out.
>
> The idea that sustainable technologies and sustainable lifeways are the
> exclusive domain of the American Green Party is ludicrous. We have been
> moving in
> that direction with Two Party domination in the last half century in this
> country long before there was an active US Green Party; but I believe it
> began to
> fall apart with the appearance of the Greens. The dismantling of our
> environmental protections by the Dubya Administration paralleled by Pawlenty
> at our
> state level would not have been possible without the rants of Greens helping
> to
> oust the moderate and progressive politicians of both Democratic and
> Republican
> Parties who made them possible (not to discount "God, Guns, and Gays" rhetoric
> of the Right). Greens, as the Palestinians were want to do, are snatching
> defeat from the jaws of victory.
>
> While it is true in the many posts of this thread that neither the mayor nor
> Peter McLaughlin can claim all the credit for every good environmental policy
> of Minneapolis or Hennepin County government (but RT tries all the same), the
> same is also true in assigning blame for the failures of our government.
> Hybrids are not the future. Both hybrid technology and biofuels are stop gap
> measures to reach cleaner and more sustainable transportation technology on
> the
> horizon; the laws of thermodynamics don't change 'cause you burn ethanol
> fermented
> from corn and distilled, or oil from soy. You probably can't manufacture and
> maintain bicycles without fossil fuels right now, same for planes, trains, and
> autombiles. And I wish I knew just what "sustainable urban infrastructure,"
> as Hoover calls it, looked like. I know I've been involved with efforts in
> Minneapolis to use recycled materials and energy effiecient technology and
> solar
> where it makes sense in new construction and plans to recycle that
> construction
> when the time comes, as it always does unless it becomes historically
> significant for some reason.
>
> Let Greens like Hoover peddle peace and sustainable urban infrastructure, but
> the people who need to buy the former are not interested, the latter is
> gobbledegook, and I refuse to listen anymore.
>
> Bill Kahn
> taking my turn to rant in Prospect Park
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PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list.
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