Guys,

there are some discrepancies in the mails below:

T.Rob writes: ... never hits the disk ...
Gregg writes: ... without ever "going on the queue" ...

As far as I know, persistent messages are always written to the log, but not 
always to the queue.

The documents of the MQ course MQ15 (WebSphere MQ Systems Administration I for 
Distributed Platforms) I found the text "... persistent message are written out 
to a log ..." (I miss the word "always" in this document).  In the system 
administration guide (distributed) I found the sentence "WebSphere MQ records 
all significant changes to the data controlled by the queue manager in a 
recovery log.".

The documents of the MQ course MQ20 (WebSphere MQ for z/OS System 
Administration)the description is similar (All message ... activity ... is done 
within pages of the WebSphere MQ for z/OS buffer pools. At the same time, 
changes to recoverable (persistent) messages are written to log records ...) 
(again, I miss the word "always" in this document).

So I am very interested in T.Robs presentation.

Regards
Hubert

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: MQSeries List <[email protected]>
> Gesendet: 06.12.06 00:18:51
> An: [email protected]
> Betreff: Re: UOW, Persistence, Reliabiltiy


> I also remember this being mentioned in a
> presentation.  I thought it had something to do with a
> performance report that made WMQ look bad.  WMQ didn't
> perform very well in an environment of persistent
> messages outside of a unit of work (it was also
> questioned why you would do this).  The solution was
> to deliver the message to the getter immediately since
> they were already waiting.
> 
> Ron
> 
> --- "Tuben, Gregg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > That is how I understand it as well - this is
> > relatively new on z/OS
> > but, has been around that way on distributed for a
> > long time (5.2 I
> > think). If there is a waiting getter the
> > non-persistent message is
> > delivered directly to the app without ever "going on
> > the queue"
> > Gregg
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MQSeries List
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of T-Rob
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 3:27 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: UOW, Persistence, Reliabiltiy
> > 
> > Roger,
> > 
> > That info was based on a WMQ internals class I
> > attended at the last 
> > conference.  I may have that presentation at home
> > and will look for it 
> > this weekend.  But the gist of it was that a message
> > outside of
> > syncpoint 
> > has no recovery after it is handed off to a
> > receiving app.  So if an app
> > 
> > has a handle open on a queue at the moment an
> > eligible persistent
> > message 
> > arrives, the message is transferred in memory and
> > never hits the disk.
> >  
> > -- T.Rob
> >  
> > T.Robert Wyatt, Consulting IT Specialist 
> > IBM Software Services for Websphere
> > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 704-719-2107 Access Line
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Roger Lacroix <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > Sent by: MQSeries List
> > <[email protected]>
> > 12/05/2006 01:25 PM
> > Please respond to
> > MQSeries List <[email protected]>
> > 
> > 
> > To
> > [email protected]
> > cc
> > 
> > Subject
> > Re: UOW, Persistence, Reliabiltiy
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, 
> > 
> > > in another discussion i just learned that putting
> > a persistent message
> > 
> > out
> > > of sync is not written to log if there is an
> > open/read handle on that
> > > queue. this was the beginning of my confusion.
> > 
> > False.  All persistent messages are written to the
> > log.
> > 
> > 
> > > so if messages are non-persistent the log only
> > contains transaction
> > > information. this information can be used as trace
> > information. but
> > not
> > > for recovering?
> > 
> > False. The log will contain both persistent messages
> > and transactional 
> > information.
> > 
> > 
> > > if messages are declared as persistent but
> > applications are never
> > > processing the messages within transactions, the
> > log just contains the
> > > message. a manually recovering is theoretical
> > possible?
> > 
> > True not theoretical but practical.  Go read chapter
> > 14 of the WMQ
> > System 
> > Administration Guide.
> > 
> > 
> > > if messages are persistent and applications
> > process the messages
> > within
> > > unit of works, mq can do his work and recover.
> > 
> > True.
> > 
> > 
> > > if the application crashes while getting a message
> > out of sync, the
> > > message is lost. independant if it is persistent
> > or non-persistent. is
> > 
> > By 'application crashes' then I presume that the
> > queue manager did not 
> > crash, hence the answer is one of 3:
> > 
> > 1) If the MQPUT returned cc=0 and rc=0 then the
> > application crashes, MQ 
> > has the message and it is not lost.
> > 
> > 2) If the MQPUT returned cc=1/2 and rc!=0 then the
> > application crashes,
> > MQ 
> > does not have the message and the reason is in the
> > cc & rc codes.
> > 
> > 3) If the MQPUT did not complete / return then the
> > application crashes,
> > MQ 
> > does not have the message, hence, it is lost.
> > 
> > Note: cc means Completion Code and rc means Reason
> > Code.
> > 
> > 
> > Hope that helps.
> > 
> >  
> > Regards,
> > Roger Lacroix
> > Capitalware Inc.
> > http://www.capitalware.biz
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, write to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and,
> > in the message body (not the subject), write:
> > SIGNOFF MQSERIES
> > Instructions for managing your mailing list
> > subscription are provided in
> > the Listserv General Users Guide available at
> > http://www.lsoft.com
> > Archive:
> >
> http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, write to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and,
> > in the message body (not the subject), write:
> > SIGNOFF MQSERIES
> > Instructions for managing your mailing list
> > subscription are provided in
> > the Listserv General Users Guide available at
> > http://www.lsoft.com
> > Archive:
> >
> http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
> http://new.mail.yahoo.com
> 
> To unsubscribe, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and,
> in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
> Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
> the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
> Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
> 

-- 
Hubert Kleinmanns
Beratung / Schulung / Projektleitung

Tel.: +49 (0) 60 78 / 7 12 21
Fax: +49 (0) 60 78 / 7 12 25
Mobil: +49 (0) 178 / 6 97 22 54

To unsubscribe, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html

Reply via email to