Hi all,
My application didn't get selected to GSoC. But I would like to contribute
to this project since I developed an interest in it.
Best Regards!
Samadhi.
On 23 March 2016 at 16:02, Samadhi Poornima <
samadhipoornima...@cse.mrt.ac.lk> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Regarding the implementation of support for screen-reader, Orca on Linux,
> I am planning to use qt-at-spi in order to bridge QAccessible API’s to
> the AT-SPI 2 protocol enabling MuseScore to be used with Orca.
>
> I also added that to the proposal, but If you guys have any better
> alternatives please let me know.
>
> Best Regards!
> Samadhi.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 22 March 2016 at 20:13, Samadhi Poornima <
> samadhipoornima...@cse.mrt.ac.lk> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Taking into account all the facts you guys pointed out, I created my
>> draft proposal. You can view it here.
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ofiRCitgEps9N8rvWYcCjmgdyu4QvUO-RBFKhoduXX4/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>
>> Waiting for some feedback!
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Samadhi.
>>
>> On 21 March 2016 at 21:16, Marc Sabatella <m...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Andrei explained things well. I'll just add a couple of things:
>>>
>>> Whether we modify the existing "next element" command or add a new one
>>> is not important; actually we should get user feedback on that. If we do
>>> add a new one, there would be a choice between a single command that
>>> traverses all commands (and thus one would use *instead* of the existing
>>> command if one wanted to traverse all elements), or perhaps a command that
>>> just traverses the "children" of a given element. Any of these designs
>>> could conceivably work. And indeed, there is no single "child" concept in
>>> the Element class; different elements have different children. We *could*
>>> conceivably add a new virtual function "children" to the Element class and
>>> instantiate it as necessary for each sub-class that actually has child
>>> elements.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:47 AM Andrei Tuicu <andrei.tu...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry, accidentally hit send without finishing my email.
>>>>
>>>> 2016-03-21 11:35 GMT+02:00 Andrei Tuicu <andrei.tu...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry if I wasn't clear before.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-03-21 5:44 GMT+02:00 Samadhi Poornima <
>>>>> samadhipoornima...@cse.mrt.ac.lk>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are some points that I need to clarify with you guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Enable the use of keyboard to navigate to a text element or
>>>>>> an articulation or a crescendo marking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Use the existing “next element” code to traverse the "annotations"
>>>>>> for each ChordRest segment, the Articulations for each ChordRest, etc.
>>>>>> Here
>>>>>> what is remaining, according to my opinion, is to implement a method to
>>>>>> dynamically alter the string which is displayed in the status bar to
>>>>>> include attached elements. Andrei, please do share your original
>>>>>> plan to implement this. I think it will be helpful here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, there is a distinction that needs to be made between
>>>>> what is in the status bar and what the screen reader reports.
>>>>> The screen-reader usually says more then the it is in the status bar.
>>>>> In the status bar you will see only the selected element, the
>>>>> screen-reader
>>>>> will also say informations about attached elements.
>>>>> Visual impaired musicians will rely on screen-reader feedback only,
>>>>> they don't have access to the status bar itself. The status bar info is
>>>>> for
>>>>> non-visually impaired users. I hope that I explained this part clearly. If
>>>>> not please ask about specific points where you are not sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the code from here:
>>>>> https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/blob/master/libmscore/element.h#L587
>>>>>
>>>>> - Status bar: accessibleInfo
>>>>> - Screen-reader: screenReaderInfo + accessibleExtraInfo (attached
>>>>> elements)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, at this point here is what you have:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Screen-reader feedback when selecting an element (for *all*
>>>>> elements, including annotations, articulations, text elements, etc.).
>>>>> - Screen-reader feedback for all the attached elements when
>>>>> selecting notes/rests/barlines/clefs (might be others, but I don't
>>>>> remember
>>>>> specifically)
>>>>> - Status bar info on the selected element (for all elements).
>>>>> - A "nextElement" command for reading a score, that will select
>>>>> step by step notes/rests/barlines/clefs, basically all the elements
>>>>> that
>>>>> are standalone (non-attached). Using this command a user can traverse
>>>>> the
>>>>> score and find out about all the elements that are there, because the
>>>>> screen-reader will tell them about the current selected element and
>>>>> about
>>>>> all the elements attached to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Marc was saying that you should modify the existing code
>>>>> for "nextElement" command (Marc, please correct me if I'm wrong here). You
>>>>> can look and see how I did things there in order to help you with your
>>>>> implementation.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you have to do:
>>>>>
>>>>> Create a command that can traverse *all* the elements. You don't need
>>>>> to change the existing code in order to have screen-reader feedback, just
>>>>> if you want to improve it, otherwise just selecting elements is enough.
>>>>> Users will use this command for editing the score, as opposed to the
>>>>> previous one which is used for reading only. My plan to implement this was
>>>>> as following: Look at the score as a tree data structure (which it is -
>>>>> each element has "children" and a parent: the Score object is the root,
>>>>> its
>>>>> children are the measures; the measures have as children segments, etc.
>>>>> Marc can give you a crash course in the structure of the score, he
>>>>> explained it to me as well) and implement a preorder traversal of this
>>>>> tree. My idea of algorithm was as following:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. if nothing is selected: select the first element (you have code
>>>>> for selecting the first element)
>>>>> 2. if the current selected element has children, select the first
>>>>> one.
>>>>> 3. else go to parent and select the next child.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't remember if there is an actual field in the Element class
>>>>> "children", so each type of element has children defined differently.
>>>>> There
>>>>> will also be some other corner cases for Spanners object, but you will
>>>>> figure this things out as you go.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 5) Support for other screen-readers- VoiceOver on OS X and
>>>>>> also Orca on Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When implementing support for VoiceOver on OS X , I will face a
>>>>>> problem since I do not own a Macintosh
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh> computer. Any word of
>>>>>> advice on this issue will be helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As Lasconic said, if you don't have a Macintosh don't include this
>>>>> in your proposal. Focus on making everything work smooth with NVDA, then
>>>>> look at Orca (which is free and open source). If you finish everything
>>>>> else
>>>>> and have time to spare you can try to get an OS X. My advice is to try and
>>>>> look at ways to virtualise an OS X rather than trying to get an actual
>>>>> Macintosh computer. I don't know much about Apple products, but you may be
>>>>> able to find trial versions for OS X and there are free solutions for
>>>>> virtualisation that support it like VMWare player and VirtualBox. If not,
>>>>> you could try cloud solutions. I don't know if Amazon has support for OS
>>>>> X,
>>>>> but there is http://www.macincloud.com/ (never tried it, just googled
>>>>> it) and they seem to have a student pay plan. What I'm trying to say is
>>>>> that there might be solutions to get access for free to a OS X just for a
>>>>> number of day which are necessary to take a look at VoiceOver.
>>>>> JAWS is another alternative of screen reader on Windows that has a lot
>>>>> of users. It has a trial version that requires you to restart your
>>>>> computer
>>>>> at every 30 minutes or so, but at least you don't have to pay for it. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, I add the following point to my list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6) Make the palettes accessible to the screen reader.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we have the implementation for QAccessibleWidget for the Palette
>>>>>> object already, I think it remains only to implement the part which
>>>>>> gathers
>>>>>> the information from the selected element and creates the string which is
>>>>>> displayed in the status bar and exposed to the Screen Reader.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think what I said was a bit confusing, in the code from my branch
>>>> you have to following:
>>>>
>>>> - support for traversing the palettes using just the keyboard
>>>> - screen-reader feedback for the selected element
>>>>
>>>> In addition you have in the MuseScores master branch from the offical
>>>> repository:
>>>>
>>>> - support for adding the selecting element when Enter/Return is
>>>> pressed (implemented by Marc)
>>>>
>>>> What you have to do here is:
>>>>
>>>> - rebase/cherry pick my commits on the master branch and resolve
>>>> the eventual conflicts
>>>> - see if there are improvements to be made, or bugs to fix
>>>>
>>>> And aside from this comes the idea for searchable palettes that you
>>>> will have to implement from scratch.
>>>> As explained at 2), there is no direct correlation between the status
>>>> bar and the screen reader feedback. The status bar is extra.
>>>> Once the QAccessibleWidget is implemented for a QWidget,
>>>> QAccessibleInterface for QObject and registered you have screen-reader
>>>> support. You might have to implement yourself a QAccessibleWidget depending
>>>> on how you design your search feature for the palettes.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps!
>>>> Good luck!
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Samadhi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20 March 2016 at 20:30, Lasconic <lasco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just want to add that Braille output is a huge project by itself if
>>>>>>> we want to do it from scratch... So I wouldn't focus on this during a
>>>>>>> GSoC
>>>>>>> project. Your point 1, 2, 4 and 5 are more focused on MuseScore's
>>>>>>> accessibility.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding braille though...
>>>>>>> We could of course integrate with freedots, but the project is
>>>>>>> currently inactive. However it's the shortest road.
>>>>>>> I currently operate http://musicxml2braille.appspot.com/. Doing a
>>>>>>> REST API call from a plugin to get Braille out is probably doable. But,
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> course, the plugin needs to be accessible... Not sure it's the case for
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> plugin right now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lasconic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2016-03-20 7:48 GMT+04:00 Marc Sabatella <m...@outsideshore.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 1:51 AM Samadhi Poornima <
>>>>>>>> samadhipoornima...@cse.mrt.ac.lk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2). Enable the use of keyboard to navigate to a text element or an
>>>>>>>>> articulation or a crescendo marking.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think there is probably a pretty straightforward model for how
>>>>>>>> this could work, based on the existing "next element" code Andrei added
>>>>>>>> (which navigates clefs and barlines and some other elements, but not
>>>>>>>> articulations, text, or crescendos) but making sure to also traverse
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> "annotations" for each ChordRest segment, the Articulations for each
>>>>>>>> ChordRest, etc. Here as elsewhere, feedback from actusal blind users
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be useful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3). Braille output- I plan on doing this by calling the FreeDots
>>>>>>>>> executable once the user enters the command to import the file to
>>>>>>>>> braille.
>>>>>>>>> However, this would not be the optimum solution to this since
>>>>>>>>> FreeDots is
>>>>>>>>> written in java.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are other concerns here too. FreeDots is a good thing, but
>>>>>>>> it is pretty limited in what it can do. There are other automatic or
>>>>>>>> semi-automatic MusicXML->Braille converter, each of which also has
>>>>>>>> limitations but different progrsams have different strengths and
>>>>>>>> weaknesses. There are a few people out there in the world who have
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>> fairly extensive study of these issues that you might want to consult,
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> it might be good to contact the develoeprs of these tools to get a
>>>>>>>> sense of
>>>>>>>> their plans for the future to see which tool might make the most sense
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> us to focus our integration efforts on. Frankly, I'm not 100%
>>>>>>>> convinced it
>>>>>>>> wouldn't someday be worth implementing out own Braille export, working
>>>>>>>> directly from our own score representation (although I recognize that
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> becomes one more thing to maintain over time, so I don't make this
>>>>>>>> statement lightly).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>
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