> >> I'm not sure turbo R compatibility would be a good thing. You would
need
> >> an
> >> R800-compatible processor for example, and as far as I know Z380 isn't.
> >
> >??? ISN'T IT ???
>
> I looked up the opcodes for some of the R800 instructions and the Z380 has
> different instructions mapped to those opcodes.
Drat.
(I like Dexter)
> >Well, then maybe we can disassemble and adapt turboR-programs. I mean,
the
> >only non-Z380 compatible instructions are MULUW and MULUB, aren't they???
> >The other ones also work on a Z80 (though undocumented).
>
> It was some time ago, I don't remember how much instructions are different
> for Z80 and R800.
> But it may be the case that Z380 doesn't supports all of the undocumented
> Z80 instructions.
> Anyway, those things can be looked up.
Well now we know thay do.
> >I bet the Z380 has a good counterpart for MULUW and MULUB...
>
> It has multiplication instructions, but I don't know if they're exactly
the
> same.
Mwa... I think so. Only other opcode I think.
> >So that shouldn't be too
> >difficult. Just search for the opcode and replace it.
>
> Easier said than done. How can you tell apart an opcode from a sequence of
> data bytes? Example: a byte with contents #3E, does it mean "LD A,n" or
> does it mean the number 62?
> Maybe an adapted emulator could report all addresses of executed R800
> instructions...
No, no, in contrary. It's quite easy. First, all those instructions have
multi-byte opcode, don't they? Do the chance you get something wrong is
already minimized. Second, you can look at the byte before it. If it's the
opcode of an LD HL,nn-like instruction the it probably won't be the
instruction you're looking for (unless the programmer used 'nested'
instructions, which is not used often though, only in BIOSses). Next, you
can show the surrounding code and if it makes sense, then it's a REAL
multiplication-instruction. If it doesn't, it's probably data. It might even
be possible to let a program automatically decide if the surrounding data is
code...
Also, I don't know what the opcode is, but I think it's not a simple one, so
it's highly inlikely that the opcode will be (referred to as) data.
> >Maybe then I can finally play Illusion City! To play Illusion City, is
MIDI
> >nessacary? And is the PCM device nessacary??? What other points of
> >incompatibility could it have???
>
> Turbo R ST doesn't have MIDI, only GT has. So I guess Illusion City can do
> without.
> I'm not sure if it uses PCM, I played for only a little while.
Oh. Well, Daniel says it did.
> >Well, actually I think a 'new' MSX should also have a PCM sampling
device,
> >so why not take the tuboR's sampleunit?
>
> I'm not particularly font of the way the turbo R's PCM works. Although
it's
> simple in hardware, it's not simple to use. I prefer a PCM device that
uses
> buffering. For example the way MSX-AUDIO handles ADPCM is nice, it plays
> from sample RAM and can generate an interrupt when it's done playing.
Yeah, okay, that's cool. But not the OPL4-way, because the OPL4 sampleunit
really SUCKS!!! It can play nice samples but there are three disadvantages:
1. The sample always has to loop at the end, you can't just let it stop.
2. Therefor, the OPL4 can't generate an interrupt if the sample is finished,
and
3. You can't play sound and access the SampleRAM at the same time.
Resulting in a maximum sample-length of 64k (using an 8-bit sample).
Therefor, the OPL4 is, although it supports high frequency, high quality
samples (16 bit, 44.1kHz), definately NOT FIT to play large samples like
.WAV-files. It is good for sounds and samples in games which can be done
like 'I tell you to play the sound and I don't want you to bother me
afterwards', though.
It would be the best if you could tell the sampling-device to generate an
interrupt at byte X, therefor enabling the program to start filling the
SampleRAM again a short while before it runs out of SampleRAM (although this
is not a nice solution, because it could result in problems on future
too-fast MSX computers... But let's not assume this). Also, the presence of
this device would make it possible for game-developers to support sampled
soundeffects for the non-MoonSound users.
Ah, and by the way, MSX-programmers should in the future avoid to develop
speed-sensitive programs. What I'm trying to say is for example in case of a
screensplit: try not to assume it arrived at a certain line after some
initializations before the real lineinterrupt, but keep track of the amount
of H_BLANKs, even if this makes you to put the screensplit a few 'lines'
higher.
> >> The bad thing of a new list is that many people won't subscribe to it,
> >> although they may have interesting ideas. Maybe we can use this list
and
> >> put "[Phoenix]" in the subject?
> >
> >Yes, yes. They do that in the int-fiction newsgroup too!!!
> >Only one thing: A lot of people are subscribed to the newsgroup but not
to
> >this list (I can understand that, sometimes the message-flow is a bit
much
> >here, while you can skip them in a newsgroup. Although the subjects are
way
> >more interesting here...). So I think we should find a solution to
that...
>
> It's possible with some mail programs to post on both. Manuel does it all
> the time. But ofcourse not everyone uses an integrated news and mail
reader.
Yeah okay, I can do both too.
But I hardly read the newsgroup, because 1. I don't like most of the
discussions, and 2. I have my hands full on this mailinglist.
> Actually, do you think there are people on the newsgroup that are not on
> this list and want to participate in the Phoenix discussion? Most
newsgroup
> people are either interested in emulators or in chatting.
> And if there are interested people, they can simply subscribe to this
list.
> With all the web-based free e-mail sites, it should be no problem for
> someone with net access to aquire an e-mail address. And anyone with a
> little advanced mail program can filter messages, to separate this list
> from personal e-mail, or even separate Phoenix messages from the regular
> list traffic.
Yes, indeed, you're right.
Although webmail-based email sucks. Take Yahoo (fused with Geocities), you
can read it offline using for example Outlook Express or Eudora (use
pop.mail.yahoo.com), and you can read it online too using webmail when
you're on holidays, for example (go to mail.yahoo.com).
> >Will a web-based forum work???
>
> No, I can tell from experience it doesn't work...
>
> >Although... I don't think it
> >will be visited really frequently, like a mailinglist, which you are
forced
> >to pay attention to.
>
> ...And that's the reason why.
:) yeah I already thought it wasn't a good idea.
Newsgroups in fact have the same disadvantage, but way less...
> >Maybe someone should put all or the important messages
> >concerning Phoenix (so with [Phoenix] in the subject-line) online on the
> >Phoenix webpage, or something like that...
>
> We could make an archive of all messages and put it on the Phoenix site.
> Does Sean still do this for all messages on this list?
> And maybe someone can regularly (once a week?) make a summary of the
> discussions. Those summaries would be posted on a separate section of the
> site.
Summary, yes, that's a good idea.
And if someone specifically wants to know how a discussion went, which
alternative ideas were suggested (although these should be listed in the
summary too) they can look it up in the archive. But there are two but(t)s:
1. Can this archive easily be automated? (a program which copies the
messages, eventually filters them and auto-uploads them to a server, in the
right directory, right layout?), and
2. This summary would be a hell of a job. The number of today's messages for
example was 43 (!!!). Well okay three days ago I only recieved 8 but still,
eh? Although ofcourse only the messages with [Phoenix] in the subject have
to be summarized. But then some people have to take care that if they think
a discussion is interesting (or becomes interesting) for the
Phoenix-project, that they put [Phoenix] in the subject-line.
Anyways, I also think more than one person should be responsible for this
task. For example, I myself am willing to summarize one week once in a
month, but definately no more often. I'm busy enough with other
activities... going to school, organizing a fair, reading the mailinglist
(very, very, time-consuming)(but I don't care)(I like to spend my time to
this list, it is interesting)(okay, genoeg geslijmd). I even haven't got
much time to just work on my MSX! And if I work on it then I can choose
between about 5 different projects... Hell.
> >It's not about bookmarking I think. you should be able to remember it, to
> >tell about it to others...
>
> OK, mailing the URL is one extra step, which might be problematic if more
> people have such a poor memory as I have.
Indeed. And when mailing, you can look it up. But when telling??? No,
Phoenix definately needs a decent URL.
By the way, why is WWW.MSX.COM still not occupied? It definately is a nice
URL, and more logic then, for example, www.msxnet.org or www.msx.org . Why
.org? Is it cheaper than .com? If I remember correctly (but I can be
mistaking) the price for an .com-URL was 160 dollar the first year and from
then on 90 dollars yearly. But you'll have to add the costs of a provider to
that ofcourse.
Hey, great idea!!! It would be really nice: www.msx.org as the main link
source for MSX, and www.msx.com as the main information source for MSX.
Hosting important things like for example
- the MSX Fair list
- the MSX ICQ list
- standards like JoyNet
- announcements of products
- a list of currently available products, and where to get them
(eventually with an order-form included).
Things like that!
And also having a nice layout (I think white is a 'professional'-looking
color) and not a different one for each part of the page... It would really
be a challenge to me to make something like that. But I haven't got the
money for it.
Hey, if we think this is a good idea, and we can get some people go for it,
donating some money (I am willing to pay about 10 to 25 bucks monthly or so
for it, provided I am one of the webmasters :)). Ofcourse, we should have
multiple webmasters, because otherwise the maintainance would suffer from it
(way too much work for 1 person). But they should all use the same layout
and communicate with eachother often, so that there aren't 2 persons making
the same thing at the same time).
~Grauw "Millennium-proof programmer"
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372
visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/
MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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