To start, I would like to ask people who think this is too much off topic, to
say so. I will reply to people on their personal mail then.

Second, I'll show you why I would like all mail to be plain text...
(David's mail was ok, the reply wasn't)

On Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 11:49:12PM +0100, Francisco Alvarez wrote:
> David Heremans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 17/12/01 23:46:39:
> 
> >>�I�hate�virus�writers,�and�so�should�we�all.
>  
> > Maybe�you�should�hate�programs�that�are�security-wise�verry�crappy.
> > We�don't�life�in�a�perfect�world.�If�you�leave�your�door�wide�open�you
> > musn't�be�that�surprised�when�a�burglar�gets�in,�so�start�with�some
> > basic�security.
> 
> Are you working for a Security company or something like that? ;)
As has been said before, security is an issue of everyone on *nix systems. They
are much more aware of it than on M$-platforms. Except for the multi-user
thing, I think it has something to do with M$ marketing. They don't want people
to care, because they wouldn't sell anything then.

> I mean, I'm under windows and not using Outlook (thanks Jorrith!), but it's
> not a problem of outlook if a 
> virus/worm/trojan/*.* infects your computer... it's the problem of the
> s*cker who created it.

leaving your door open is a quite good example, really. It is not like the
creator has to do any trouble to get a virus on a windows box. It's more the
equivalent of taking a look. If you don't bother to lock or even close your
door, do you have the right to be upset if someone walks in?

> The main difference between your example and computer world is... if I let my
> door being opened and a burglar gets 
> in, I can be waiting for him with a gun targeting his head.

At least in holland, even planning to do that is a much bigger crime than
actually walking into your house. And what's the point anyway? You leave your
door open, so people might walk in and when they do, you put a gun on their
head... Why would that be better than locking your door?

> It's not possible
> in this world.
Actually, it is. If you have a nice firewall and a secure system, you can fool
them so they think they have succeeded. But in the meanwhile you can trace
their source. You do need a house with only one door open, though...

> People hide from his 
> computer and do sh*t that they can't do if they show themselves. But ok, I
> accept, computer world is full of 
> cowards.

There is a very good reason they don't show themselves. A long time ago, people
saw security holes in software and told the programmers about it. The companies
usually replied with: Well, there's no exploid, so we don't care (of course
they didn't say this, but it's obviously what they were thinking). So the
people who told them about it wrote an exploid and published it, preferably
by using it on some well-known people and sending their private data to the
press. That makes quite some noise in the public, so the company will write a
patch for it. However, this action is illegal. So if you want the hole to be
fixed, you need to do criminal things... And therefore, you should not show
yourself.

I know the above holds only for part of the crackers (and virus writers). But I
believe this is the biggest part. There are also others, like the writer of the
`I love you' virus, that want mostly to be mentioned in the press. These
viruses are however totally harmless if you have any sense of security.

And I do want to reply to the thing that these things may happen for linux,
too. It may be true that there will be viruses (or there may already be some).
But if a virus gets access to the processor somehow, it still cannot remove any
important files from the system. I heard there is a windows virus that removes
windows and installs linux. The other way round would be totally impossible,
because
1. The virus will not get executed
2. If it does, it will not be able to remove linux/repartition the hard disk

Many people think you need anti-virus software. I hope to have showed you this
is not the case. You just need a secure operating system. If you do not agree
on any point, I would be happy to discuss it.

Bye,
shevek
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html

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