On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Michael Bender wrote: > Jesse I Pollard wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Scott Guthery wrote: > > Sorry to have to inject a note of reality into this otherwise very > interesting but ultimately fruitless discussion of who thinks they > control what... > > >>P.S. Who do you think controls the software in your [...] > > > > Don't have one. > > Don't have one. > > Don't have one. > > don't have one. > > don't have one. > > don't have one. > > Do you have a telephone with a DTMF pad on it?
Unfortunately - and I can't really control it either (I end up removing the batteries... so I don't get calls sometime. So what - I'm thinking of replacing it with a linuxphone). > Do you have a monitor or LCD panel for your computer? Yup - NEC. The japanese do some very good work. >Do you have a modem of some sort to connect to the Internet? nope. Not yet. My former house still has DSL, connected to my router via ethernet/atm. > Do you have a microwave oven? Yup - Sharp (Korean) >Do you have > a DVD player, VCR, CD player, clock radio, digital watch, TV remote > control, digital camera? My DVD player is the Sony. The VCR is japanese/Chinese. No watch. As far as I can see none of these devices is owned by MS. Therefore my level of trust is much higher. Since none of these also have Internet access, I don't have to worry about my microwave telling MS that I'm having reheated pizza for dinner. Nor do I have to worry about them getting viruses. > Have you ever flown in a jet airplane? How do you know that there isn't > a hidden trojan in the airlines' ticketing system that can connect to > an Airbus fule control computer and disable it when too many Linux > hackers board the plane to fly to the next Linux convention? Well, considering that the FAA doesn't allow MS software in the aircraft, and Airbus doesn't use MS software, I don't think I have a problem. BTW, ticketing systems are NOT allowed to access fule control of the plane. The last time I checked up on fight regs (with respect to software), even the checks-and-balances of cargo loading is double checked (at least one is NOT done by MS based software). > > Unless you are talking about a game console, in > > which case it is Sony (who will allow me to load Linux on it). > > OK, but let's be serious - sure, you can load Linux on your game console > but then it's not a game console anymore, it's a chunk of hardware that's > running Linux (or whatever it is that you want ot load in it) and which > is then fundamentally no different than a "white box" PC that you buy > or build yourself. No - it is a game console that has an embedded Linux system on it. I may use it to play games, I may create a game. In either case, it is an embeded system. (BTW, the game is booted from the CD, therefore the OS mandated by Sony is in the game). And I don't connect it to the internet (might someday, but not until I've had time to test it). > >> Or your printer? > > > > Adobe, though I've been thinking of replacing it with a Linux based one. > > Uh huh, but Linux will not be running the low-level control operations > like stepper motor control, ink jet or laser operations and so on, that's > still going to be done with firmware that *someone* (probably not your > or I) will write, control, or ever see the source code of. The only thing > that Linux will do in a "Linux printer" is to render the data that is then > sent to the printer guts that are controlled by firmware written by some > anonymous engineer or engineering team that has probably long since moved > on to some other project by the time the printer hits the store shelves. Ever hear about embeded Linux --- runs on printers, hubs, remote control units, settop boxes, and many control systems. In many cases, it is replacing WinCE, and other real time systems. More reliable, safter, better uptime. And yes, I have seen plans for stepper motor controllers using embeded Linux. They really are not that complicated. And the last time I looked at printer controllers, they did the rendering, rastering, banding, all in software; leaving only the buffer register transfer to print head and stepper in hardware. The stepper IS controled by the OS because the buffer register doesn't know if a second pass will be necessary. > >> Or your router? > > > > Me (because I compiled it - open source, also assembled the hardware). > > And you wrote the microcode in the Ethernet controller chips and created > the HDL that was used to actually mask the chip and manufacture it at > the silicon foundry where it was changed from grains of sand and lumps > of glass to a network controller? No. So, how do you know what the Verilog > or microcode or firmware in that network interface *really* does? You don't, > an no amount of Linux or Open Source or GPL or Richard Stallman jumping > up and down will change that. since all the chips are manufactured overseas, I'm fairly confident that the software was also done overseas. Since I control the inputs to the device, and have verified the outputs are fully within spec (at least until lightning strikes), I've become fairly confident of my control over the device. > > And the wireless access point is Linux based. > > Not completely. There is VHDL, microcode and firmware (all below the level > of any Linux or other OS that may be in the box) that is doing the bidding > of the Linux OS. Again, since these are manufactured overseas... That is part of the embeded system... > And, who controls the *other end* of your connection? I'ts mandated by IETF to be compatable. I believe the last time I checked it was owned by Cisco, which writes their own IOS, and the ATM interface too. I have no problem with them. I've used their equipment for several years, and have come to trust them. (I think.. not sure.. a good bit of their software is coming from India). They have been fairly prompt with fixes that work, they do not try to steal content (MS got cought doing that -- check the history of MS EULA with respect to hotmail. For a while, their EULA stated that MS owned everything that passed through hotmail, also check what their media player did/does). > >>You lost this war before you realized there was one. > > > > I haven't lost it to MS. > > > > There is a lot of strength in diversity. It also helps bring the > > overall price down through competetion. > > It's also good to realize that just saying "but I can load Linux > on it!" doesn't mean that you control whatever the "it" is. If I can make it perform to it's design capability, then I control it. You DO have to have a certain amount of faith in your tools, and the tool vendor. If I control the tool, then I know what the tool can do. The more I learn, the more control I get. Much more than I can control the crapware that MS puts out. I have lost ALL trust/faith in MS capability to produce code the works, meets the specifications, doesn't intentionally violate privacy, and that I'm allowed to see the specifications. I can no longer trust the "tools" that MS produces to do what they claim due to a lack of control. And I'm not allowed to learn more about the tools, so I can't gain any more control. They lost my trust. And a customer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jesse I Pollard, II Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any opinions expressed are solely my own. _______________________________________________ Muscle mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.musclecard.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle
