"View" I'm slightly less sure - it may well just be me. I am used to software producing on-screen "reports" diced, sliced and filtered accordingly. Whereas "view" to me speaks of seeing all the contents... Like I say this could just be me.
"Outline" I believe myself to be on firmer ground. I even had googled it to try to find a formal definition in the sense intended but failed. Maybe it is partly US (Dwight) - UK (John) divide... but I'm not so sure. Try this dictionary http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/outline > 1. the line by which a figure or object is defined or bounded; contour. Nope it's not a line. > 2. a drawing or sketch restricted to line without shading or modeling > of form. Nope it not a drawing or sketch > 3. a general sketch, account, or report, indicating *only the main features*, > as of a book, subject, or project: *e.g. an outline of medieval history; an outline of a speech.* Again no - not really. The point here is that ALL of my content - every single one of my tasks is what the hierarchy is. i.e. An Outline in the MLO sense includes ALL my tasks, not just some of them. On reflection if my main pages of content where held in the Notes area, and if then I would concede that the hierarchy would be acting as a summary of only the main features. But the way I (an I was assuming most other MLO users) use MLO, most of the actual content is in the task titles. i.e. in MLO *all* the details go into the "outline". To get clear on this, an "outline" in the English literature sense meant by this definition on reference.com might well be the *summary* of a plot, written as a *block *of prose. In no way is it required to be indented with parents and children in multiple layering of relationships. The point is that who MLO means by outline is a hierarchical tree with parent and child and peer relationships, which is normally represented in 2D space with indentations, a forked tree shape of multiple lines etc. > 4. "outlines, the essential features or main aspects of something > under discussion: *> e.g. At the first meeting, we gave her only the outlines of the project."* No - again this definition talks of free text. > 5. Printing an ornamented type in which the outside contours of > each character appear in black, with the inside left white. No > 6. to draw the outline of, or draw in outline, as a figure or object. No it's not a drawing. > 7. to give an outline of; sketch the main features of: *> e.g. On the first day, the professor just outlined the course for us.* Free text. In fact nowhere can I even find a definition for "Outline" which talks of relative rankings between items... nor "often represented with indentations"... nor anything that describes the actual relationship between items, nor of multiple levels or layering / degrees of separation / generations nor relative prioritsations... Nowhere can I find a definition of "outline" that talks of ranking using numbered statements. Whereas "hierarchy" nails it: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hierarchy?s=t "any system of persons or things ranked one above another." To get clear I am not claiming that "Outline" is in anyway an incorrect term. As Dwight points out this meaning has crept into word processing software. What I claim is that to average mainstream (read non-geek) punter hierarchy is a much more familiar, unambiguous word to use. Time's up. I rest my case me lord. On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Dwight Arthur <[email protected]> wrote: > I haven't had a chance to see the video yet but I want to comment on > John's discussion on the words "view" and "outline". > > To me, a report is a print-formatted snapshot of some data, suitable for > printing and distribution or for storing away on archival media. If you > call something a report, I expect it to fit on one or several paper-sized > pages, and to show data as of the time that the report was pulled. While > there may be live hyperlinks in a report i would not expect functioning > controls, like dropdown boxes or calendars. To me, screen-formatted display > of current data with active controls would be a view. > > Similar issue with outline. I am familiar with the meaning of outline to > mean lines that enclose the broad shape of an object. But I'm also familiar > with another meaning, a hierarchical list of brief, numbered statements > that convey the essence of a subject, particularly where the numbering > follows the "outline numbering" format. Outline numbering uses roman > numerals for the highest level, uppercase alphabetics of the alphabet used > for the document text at the second level, arabic numerals for the third, > and lowercase alphabetics for the fourth, with the sequence repeating at > lower levels, roman numerals at the fifth and so on. I was taught outlining > as a way to organize subject matter when preparing to write an essay when i > was in middle school and there were a few dozen computers in the world, so > I don't think it is computer jargon. > > John's apparent unfamiliarity with this meaning of the word led me to > question if it might be a Canadian or Americn usage, but it turns out that > the concept was significantly popularized in 1974 when the Encyclopedia > Britannica produced the Outline of Knowledge, which later became the basis > for the structure of Wikipedia. > > I found it interesting that John states that "hierarchical list" would be > an easier concept for novices than "outline" - it seems that Wikipedia had > advocates for a "hierarchical list of knowledge" but decided for the > "outline of knowledge" because it's easier to understand and takes up less > space. > > The digital age has changed outlining, it is now a thing in itself as > opposed to a preparation for an essay (nobody writes essays anymore) and > numbering and particularly the outline numbering format have pretty much > faded away. But i agree with Wikipedia that outline is more novice-friendly > than hierarchical list. > > On Oct 29, 2015, J Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hello >> >> Overall this video is really excellent! :^) >> >> MLO for Android v2 is a big improvement and this explainer video does a >> pretty good job of explaining what is an extremely poweful, complex system. >> >> Have various constructive suggestions however: >> >> 1. Outline >> I have now watched the whole through twice and although I thought the *first >> half* was IMO, absolutely flawlesss... at about half way through I felt >> you would start to lose/confuse any newbies in your audience, particularly >> if they are mainstream / non-technical users. >> >> The first problem is that a *lot* of your audience (and I would guess >> the vast majority of mainstream users) simply will not know what the heck >> an "outline" is. In this context, it is technical jargon! >> >> You won't want to hear this, but my suggestion is that you change all >> instances of the word from "outline" to "hierarchy". (Yes, I would do the >> same thing to your entire system including the user-guide, btw!) >> >> In this context both words really mean the same thing and every native >> English speaker knows what a hierarchy is. Yes, I know that "outline" is >> the more correct technical term, but frankly it is computer jargon. (Aside: >> MLO is great but it has never been as accessible to mainstream users as it >> deserves to be!) >> >> To get clear - in normal use, "outline" means the shape of something. >> i.e. a line or set of lines that enclose the boundary or indicate the shape >> of something. >> But does the shape of a couple of tasks change if the letters change - >> well in normal usage... if this were a for example photograph speaking ... >> YES. But in this context no - the "hierachy" i.e. the *relationships *between >> then task would stay the same. >> >> If you can't change "outline" to "hierarchy", maybe call it "hierachical >> outline" >> >> OR take the time to explain the jargon >> "The overall hierarchy of tasks, and the way they are indented is called >> an outline in computing." >> >> But you have a lot of information to get over and personally I think it's >> just a distraction. Why not use words everyone already understands? >> >> >> 2. At 3:49 >> "In conclusion we have demonstrated MLO helps you to create to-dos and >> group them forming simple lists." >> TBH, it's not immediately obvious EXACTLY what is meant by "to-dos". >> Try "In conclusion we have demonstrated MLO helps you to enter your to-do >> tasks and then group them into simple lists." >> >> >> 3. >> "We can subdivide our tasks into sub-tasks if we need to and get a plan >> of action." >> Even this is slightly confusing. What precisely is mean by "plan of >> action" - is this a special bit of jargon - a special for more >> view/output/report or meant 'generically'. As Steve Krug woud say "Don't >> make me think!" >> >> Try:"We can subdivide our tasks into sub-tasks so we can get a good >> overview of our plans." >> Or leave it out completely. The user can already *see* that there's a >> heirarchy you're not telling them any thing new. >> >> If you think you can tell them about how this heirachy can be used to >> produce sophisticated views that show the first next action in every >> project, then sure, go for it, but you need to take the time to do so >> explicitly, otherwise all you will create is confusion. >> >> >> 4. >> "Views automatically choose only your to-dos from the whole task list." >> Yes, I know what you're saying and yes, it's a key aspect of MLO, however >> I predict precisely 0% of new/virgin users will understand what you mean. >> >> For one thing it sounds like some other user's tasks have suddenly >> arrived ("WTF?" !) >> Try: "If you put a start date or dependency information into your tasks, >> then MLO has views that will only show you those tasks that you should do >> right now, rather than the whole list." >> >> >> In summary, I think you should either take time to explain things >> properly or keep things simple. And all I am suggesting is that if budgets >> allow, I would recommend re-recording some of the sound track along these >> lines. >> >> Anyhow, overall MLO Android is great. And the explainer video is great. >> >> Trying to help >> >> J >> >> >> P.S. It may just be me, but personally I have always had a slight problem >> with the word "view". Part of the problem is that view can mean "opinion". >> I know it's less probably technically accurate, but I find "report" far >> easier to understand! (So much so that if I find something in the MLO >> instructions with the word "view" it in, I repeat it to myself using the >> word "report" instead of "view" and usually it suddenly makes sense! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> or "hierarchical outline" >> >> >> >> >> I was with it >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, 29 October 2015 16:18:37 UTC, Marina Afanasenko (MLO Team, >> PR Manager) wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone! >>> >>> The release of MyLifeOrganized for Android V2 is very close. And you can >>> already evaluate the new UI in our video tutorial: >>> http://blog.mylifeorganized.net/2015/10/mylifeorganized-for-android-v2-video.html >>> Enjoy! >>> >>> Sincerely yours, >>> Marina >>> On behalf of the MyLifeOrganized Team >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MyLifeOrganized" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mylifeorganized. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/0c538bf5-80a5-486c-84c0-4f7d13038f69%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/0c538bf5-80a5-486c-84c0-4f7d13038f69%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- Sent with *K-@ Mail > <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2>* > - the evolution of emailing. > -- Sent with *K-@ Mail > <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2>* > - the evolution of emailing. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MyLifeOrganized" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mylifeorganized. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/0dccccc9-87ae-4f86-a185-d20cf4b9dd4a%40dwightarthur.us > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/0dccccc9-87ae-4f86-a185-d20cf4b9dd4a%40dwightarthur.us?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyLifeOrganized" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mylifeorganized. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/CAEN65JYkDC_QRs-zkCVmdph_qCx1PCOywRbCwCE0w7v6fbWdAA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
