Brad Templeton wrote:
On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 12:42:16AM -0800, Bruce Markey wrote:
Brad Templeton wrote:
...
So, anybody speculate when they will decide to start charging?
TMS, Gemstar and the like don't create TV listing information.
They gather it from TV stations and networks. TV stations make
money by selling commercial time with the rates based on Nielsen
ratings. Stations need to let viewers know when their shows are
on so that people will watch. The purpose of listings services
is to distribute the stations listings for the benefit of the
stations. If the service didn't deliver listings to potential
viewers, the stations would take their business to someone else
who would. In this sense, their business is somewhat like the junk
mail with all the retail and grocery store adds. There is no need
to worry that you will be charged to receive these coupons.
But this business unit is not in the business of giving it away.
As I understand it, they are in the business of distributing the
information on behalf of the stations so that each station doesn't
have to report their schedule to every newspaper, magazine, etc.
and so the data will be presented in a uniform manner. I've always
believed that the stations paid for this service* in addition to
the contracts with the newspapers that redistribute the info.
Listings are given away to individuals on the web and this is
what the stations want. Further, I believe their fee structure
is based on reach so they want to claim the highest number of
viewer seeing their data as possible.
http://biz.zap2it.com/history.html
I presume they do some cleanup and unification of the data as well,
but that can be fixed other ways.
Fact is they _do_ charge companies for this data and that is the
lifeblood of this business unit.
Yes they do but they also give it away to individuals who do
not need to redistribute. This is much like we used to do at
Netscape where there were contracts for support and service
for corporations but the browser was free for download for
individual users.
And the stations have very little interest in providing accurate
listing data to people who don't watch their commercials. Myth
The stations report their schedules to the listings service,
period. They do not provide accurate data for the listings services
paying customers and inaccurate info to give to end consumers =).
users are worse than Tivo users as they have automatic commercial
skip.
Data is gathered and distributed. There is no such distinction.
DataDirect is a Good Thing for us so it is easy to jump to the
conclusion that there's got to be a catch and they're out to
screw us somehow. However, TMS actually pushed for and created
DD for their own selfish benefit.
They cut down the web scraping, but in fact there are other ways
to stop web scraping.
That's moot. They are in the business of distributing data not
preventing distribution. If they didn't want individuals to get
the listings they would simply take down their web service altogether.
However, then they would just lose reach to Gemstar (TV Guide)
and they wouldn't be able to charge stations as much.
They would rather not do the, and myth
users are small in number now anyway.
DD is not a for MythTV only thing. If it was attributed to one
applications it would be XMLTV.
The point is that they do make the same information from their
master database available to both business partners and individuals.
It is more efficient for them to bundle a DB dump for the
individuals that grab all the data at once. This is why they
wanted to create DD. Not only to make their systems more
efficient but to gather more accurate information about who
they reach.
If they tried to charge for this service, people would simply
go back to scraping. Their webservers would be bombarded and
they would lose their source for demographic information.
Actually, I would pay a modest fee rather than scrape. Just to
But you don't have that choice. They are going to give you the
their best data from their master database anyway.
assure the data is reliable. With scraping you would fear the data
could vanish any day that they happen to change the format of their
web page.
Which is one of the subtle advantages of DD. You are a registered
(non-paying) customer and can expect to ask questions for the
service that you signed up for and have some reliability. Scrapers
can break anytime they make changes to the HTML and it's your
problem to fix the grabber.
Companies like Tivo pay because even if they could scrape (the copyright
rules are dicey on this) they don't want to be in a position of
having it go out due to factors beyond their control.
They absolutely need to pay for service and accountability.
-- bjm
* So rather than just assuming this, I decided to find out for
a fact if stations pay the listings services. I called a couple
local network affiliates and got voice mail for the person who
knows at each of them. However, when I asked my local PBS station,
KLVX, if they pay to have their listing go to Gemstar and TMS, I
was told (emphatically ;-) that they absolutely and pay and that
they "go through TRAC Media" (http://www.tracmedia.org/).
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