John....

To save room and cost on boards, in the future, you may want to consider using 
dual  .1 in header instead of dip switches..  With just a few exceptions, they 
are mostly set and forget, no need for dip switches.. And headers are almost as 
easy to set as dip switches.  

My two bit to save a little bit of board room....


i~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~i

Tom Lafleur
(858) 759-9692

> On Sep 12, 2015, at 7:09 PM, John Monahan <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> First sorry for calling you “Bib” Bob – typo!
>  
> A board as you describe below would without doubt be a far better S100 board. 
>   Having an SD card on board in particular would be a great addition.   
>  
> Because I’m mostly occupied with getting high end CPU’s on to the S100 bus 
> these days 80386, 80486 and ARM/Raspberry etc. + adding MB and GB RAM boards 
> I had in mind the Z80/Propeller/USB board as a ‘quick & dirty’ solution just 
> to get new people up and running on the bus.   The components are well tested 
> having gone through a few years/versions both in terms of hardware and the 
> ROM monitor.  With the USB port it would be possible to download a program 
> into RAM from a PC, indeed download a CPM itself (this would require some 
> more software).    I am doing this board more or less in between fabrication 
> of the above prototype boards – which take 2 weeks to turn around these days 
> with the Advanced Circuits PCB manufacture.  I hoping one or at the most two 
> prototypes will do it. 
>  
> If you or somebody else can put together a “proper S100 SBC” that will be 
> great but honestly for me I cannot do the splice right now. Any volunteers. 
>  
> BTW I just updated the S100Computers.com site with the proposed schematic for 
> the above board.  Freerouter did eventually find a solution (currently down 
> to 654 vias). See:-
>  
> http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/SBC%20Z80%20Board/SBC%20Z80%20CPU%20Board.htm
>  
> I will let it stew over the weekend and send off to Advance Circuits on 
> Monday.  I will get the usual/minimum  4 boards made, so two available if 
> anybody is serious about testing/changes of this prototype.
>  
> John
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf Of Andrew Bingham
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 11:10 PM
> To: N8VEM-S100
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [N8VEM-S100:7568] Re: A new Z80 based SBC to get beginners 
> started on the S100 bus
>  
> Of course I meant, "does not require an external ROM".
> 
> On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 11:09:21 PM UTC-7, Andrew Bingham wrote:
> I posted a response over on the VCF forum John, but in case others here on 
> the -S100 list find it useful - http://geoffg.net/terminal.html is a very 
> nice PIC-based VT-100 monochrome VGA + PS/2 terminal that also doubles as a 
> serial-to-USB converter, with the Gerber files available on the site, 
> firmware, etc.  The PIC is a smaller chip than the Propeller and does not 
> require an external RAM, you could go with (Z85C30 part of the Serial IO 
> board + this circuit) instead of the (most of the Propeller board + (8255 + 
> parallel->USB adapter chip part of the Serial IO board)) and it might save 
> some space on the board.  Maybe even enough space left to run an SD card or 
> microSD card slot to the unused channel of the Z85C30 in synchronous mode 
> (SPI) to interface with the SD card?
> 
> On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 9:03:14 PM UTC-7, monahanz wrote:
> Great source if info Bib
> Thanks
> John
>  
>  
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
> Of Bob Bell
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 1:20 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [N8VEM-S100:7555] Re: A new Z80 based SBC to get beginners 
> started on the S100 bus
>  
> FWIW, I dug up the link to the serial terminal I referenced a couple of days 
> ago in my SBC comments.
> This has a lot of possibilities and I have plans to build one of these as 
> soon as I can find the time.
> It ought to be a great primer on programming the ATMega chips, which I have 
> been keenly interested in.
>  
> http://searle.hostei.com/grant/MonitorKeyboard/index.html
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Bob Bell
>  
>  
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
> John Monahan
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 1:07 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [N8VEM-S100:7554] Re: A new Z80 based SBC to get beginners 
> started on the S100 bus
>  
> Thanks everybody for the suggestions.
> Here is what I’m currently going with and why…
>  
> First and foremost I wanted a Z80 circuit that is proven and works with 
> almost every vintage s100 board out there.  I used the core circuit on our 
> Z80 board 
> (http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/Z80%20Board/Z80%20CPU%20Board.htm
>  ).  It’s based on the old Intersystems II CPU board. I have not come across 
> a vintage S100 board it does not work with. It goes to 10MHz in my own system 
> of mainly S100Computers boards. Even works with DRAM boards.  I had to remove 
> the >64K windowing circuit for board space (see below).  The Z80 to S100 bus 
> signal conversions take up quite a few 74LSxx chips.  Granted that could be 
> reduced with a GAL or two but newcomers will probably not have experience 
> programming GAL’s initially. 
>  
> Second,  I brought in the circuit from the Propeller Console IO board 
> (http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/Console%20IO%20Board/Console%20IO%20Board.htm
>  ).  Because of space I removed the HEX display and a few jumpers. This 
> provides direct support for PS2 keyboard and VGA video. Besides the internal 
> ribbon cable connectors to the back of a box, I also added IBM-PC P2 and VGA 
> sockets at the top of the board for direct connections.  Again my thinking 
> was KISS.  It’s a well proven board totally debugged and is completely 
> programmable (currently has VT100 capability as well).  I wanted to retain 
> the flexible status port and bit configuration jumpers section so when 
> sections are disabled to use an external board (see below) the monitor need 
> not be. Granted there is a simpler solution such as the PIC32.  I may have to 
> go to that for space reasons but with the Propeller circuit 99% of the work 
> is done it’s just a splice.   Also later,  the user can get and use the 
> Propeller Console IO easier when they build a larger system.  The interrupt 
> circuit is still there BTW. 
>  
> There was an outcry for a serial port.  These unfortunately take up board 
> real estate badly.  I opted to add the (again well proven) USB port chip that 
> we used on our Serial I/O board 
> (http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/Serial%20IO%20Board/Serial%20IO%20Board.htm
>  ).  This 18 pin “chip”  takes up little circuit room and actually is easier 
> to interface to a PC than a serial port. USB the serial cables are also very 
> common.
>  
> Added a few LED’s that’s about it.
>  
> The board has 128K of RAM (there are no common 64Kx8 static RAM DIP chips) 
> that can be jumpered into two separate 64K sections. It has a 27C64 (or 
> equivalent) ROM, keyboard buzzer, 8 interrupt jumpers, a Power on clear and a 
> ROM power on jump to any 1K boundary circuit.  I used two, a  5V and 3.3V  
> Pololu regulators.  There are a lot of chips on this board. A TO-3 regulator 
> capable of > 1.5 Amps takes up too much space.  Those Pololu units are really 
> nice and take little real estate.  
>  
> There is a socket to program the Propeller EEROM but the user will have to 
> buy the “Propeller Programming Plug”.  A serial interface circuit is too 
> board space expensive.  They would also need to buy a PROM/EEPROM programmer 
> (e.g. Wellon VP-290).  After that they should have a board that would light 
> up an empty S100 bus card cage.   Clearly the next thing to do would be to 
> build a FDC board or IDE/CF Card board and then go from there…  
>  
> The circuits are configured  so the onboard RAM, ROM, Console I/O and serial 
> sections can be inactivated in stages as discrete more functional boards are 
> added.  While the board will act as a master/slave S100 board it’s not really 
> intended to function is a complex multiprocessor configuration. For example 
> for debugging you cannot “see” beyond 64K of RAM in the bus.
>  
> A few of you wanted more options including a CF card etc.  Unless we went 
> with a 4 layer board (more expensive, hard to debug), there is unfortunately 
> not enough room.  GAL’s (or a CPLD) would help but I wanted to simplify the 
> board for first time users. The current 74LSxx board is amenable to simple 
> logic probe debugging in all the circuits.
>  
> Now the bad news.  This board is very dense.  The initial via count is ~1200 
> vias! (More in fact than my current 80486 CPU prototype boards).  It’s taxing 
> Freerouter to find a solution. I playing around with chip layouts.  May need 
> some volunteers to shuffle things around an try for a solution.  The multiple 
> jumper options really soak up vias.
>  
> Anyway stay tuned.
>  
> John
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Cini
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 3:09 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [N8VEM-S100:7551] Re: A new Z80 based SBC to get beginners 
> started on the S100 bus
>  
> On Phillippe's second point, the DSKY already exists for the N8 ECB platform 
> so maybe you can reuse that?
>  
> I forget -- would the proposed board have a parallel port or two? That'd be 
> great for a parallel ascii keyboard. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:51 AM, Philippe Elie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>  
> I'm jumping in this thread a bit late, it's a great idea John! I was 
> considering building a Zeta SBC but was missing the S100 compatibility. The 
> board you suggest could be used not only for diagnostic but also to build a 
> compact S100 system based on a 4-slot backplane for example. 
>  
> a couple of comments : 
> - also agree that serial is essential, video not that much. Propeller is 
> great but, having spent quite some time tweaking the code, there are inherent 
> limitations when running DOS as several programs are addressing the video 
> memory directly and this makes it quite difficult to emulate. as such, we 
> should rather leave the video chip decision to the user and integrate the 
> serial port only.
> - I own several old school SBCs, as I guess several people here, KIM1, SYM1, 
> TM990  etc and one feature they all have which is neat is a tiny hex keyboard 
> and LED digits. I was wondering if this very limited entry/display device 
> would also be included in the board, probably via a dedicated connector and 
> external daughter board.. that would make debugging, patching, etc quite 
> straightforward, and helping in situations where an external serial terminal 
> cannot be used
>  
> my 0.002 cents !
> Philippe
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