> > You will be changing your tune when your mother is sick and can't get the > care she needs because the system is overwhelmed because we (communities, > not just network operators) didn't do what was necessary because of some > idealistic hard line people drew in the sand. >
The medical system is going to be run over by lack of trained professionals / beds / equipment long before it is unable to provide care because of transient internet congestion. I know you're under a lot of stress Mike, and I wish you all the best getting through these current events. On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 11:09 AM Mike Bolitho <[email protected]> wrote: > "It is something that matters, because it has the potential to set a >> dangerous precedent." >> > > Can we stop with this talk... around everything? We're literally living > through an unprecedented event right now. My 86 year old grandmother said > she's never seen anything like this in the US. My friends 94 year old > grandmother in Italy said she hasn't seen this since WWII. Nobody is going > to say "Well we did this during a global pandemic so we can now do it > because we feel like it". People will laugh them out of the room. I live in > Phoenix, the mayor shut down bars and restaurants (carryout only) in order > to help stop us from becoming Italy. One of our city councilmen was saying > the same thing: "This is martial law and sets bad precedent! We must open > everything up!" Of course, they then held a closed to the public meeting > because city council can't be exposed. The point is, the mayor isn't going > to do the same thing in six months on a whim because traffic on the freeway > is bad. Thankfully calmer heads prevailed and the rest of the council told > him to pound sand, at least for now. > > Something that keeps happening on this mailing list over the last few > weeks is this tendency to try to take the "Moral high ground". And from way > up there people are looking at the whole topic from an idealistic point of > view like we live in some Network Operators Utopia with perfect conditions > where money doesn't exist and we can do whatever we want because there is > no upper management. We should be having a practical conversation that sits > within the confines of reality. We don't have perfect networks built. We > don't have unlimited resources. We are facing a global pandemic. Money is > tight. In principle, I agree with what you guys are saying. But in reality, > we're going to have to bend our convictions in order to protect populations > from COVID-19. You will be changing your tune when your mother is sick and > can't get the care she needs because the system is overwhelmed because we > (communities, not just network operators) didn't do what was > necessary because of some idealistic hard line people drew in the sand. > > - Mike Bolitho > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 7:44 AM Tom Beecher <[email protected]> wrote: > >> It is something that matters, because it has the potential to set a >> dangerous precedent. >> >> If you say "$Service should reduce their bit rates because this is an >> emergency!" , I guarantee that exact same argument will be made well after >> this crisis has passed with a different definition of "emergency", and >> adding on "well it's an emergency to me!". >> >> Some of the pipes Netflix goes through is also used by other services >>> that aren't as adaptable. >>> >> >> And how is that Netflix's responsibility? They have already taken action >> to ramp down bitrates when they detect congestion. Why should other >> applications be able to say piss off, I don't want to? Didn't we just have >> a 10 year net neutrality argument that we're not supposed to want to treat >> the bits differently? >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:17 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> It's one of those most important things that matters. >>> >>> The end user likely won't notice the difference between 4k and 720p. >>> They also aren't likely to notice the transition from one to the other. >>> >>> The person on the VPN, VoIP call, video conference, video game, etc. >>> will very much notice the congested link, even if it's only a few seconds. >>> >>> >>> Yes, Netflix video is very efficient, if not the most efficient. They're >>> also one of if not the largest slingers of bits on the Internet. Small >>> changes in usage of such a huge player totally eclipse most other usages on >>> the Internet. >>> >>> https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306 >>> >>> Netflix recommends 25 megs for Ultra HD, while only 5 megs for HD. >>> That's a 5x difference in something people likely won't notice and would >>> make a big difference on the additional VPN, VoIP, video conferencing, etc. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Blake Hudson" <[email protected]> >>> *To: *[email protected] >>> *Sent: *Friday, March 20, 2020 9:01:18 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: COVID-19 vs. our Networks >>> >>> Yes, but does that matter? If there's extra capacity on the link, >>> Netflix runs at full rate. If there is not extra capacity Netflix rates >>> down to prevent congestion. While streaming video (including Netflix) uses >>> a lot of bandwidth, I don't see Netflix causing congestion. It gets a bad >>> wrap, and I think that's unfair because Netflix is actually really >>> efficient and really conscientious compared to others. >>> >>> On 3/20/2020 8:52 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>> Some of the pipes Netflix goes through is also used by other services >>> that aren't as adaptable. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Blake Hudson" <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >>> *To: *[email protected] >>> *Sent: *Friday, March 20, 2020 8:32:45 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: COVID-19 vs. our Networks >>> >>> >>> On 3/19/2020 12:22 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: >>> > >>> > On 19/Mar/20 18:07, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> >> Agreed... 720 or 1080 Netflix will work just as fine as 4K for the >>> >> next month or two. >>> > Well, the article claims "Drop stream quality from HD". That means 4K, >>> > 1080p and 720p. >>> > >>> > If you have an OCA on your network, how does this encourage consumers >>> to >>> > use the "extra bandwidth" for anything else? >>> > >>> > Are we assuming we know how consumers want to spend their time now? >>> > >>> > Mark. >>> >>> Across several eyeball networks I'm not seeing any noticeable increase >>> in peak (95%) demand between now and January. Since Netflix >>> automatically scales down data rates in the event of congestion, the >>> only thing I foresee forcing Netflix to reduce data rates [ahead of any >>> congestion] would accomplish is causing excess link capacity to go >>> unused (wasted). This sounds like a policy decision made without a >>> technical argument... e.g. not a data driven decision, but a decision >>> made out of fear or panic. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
