Provided that vertical integration is not allowed, so that we can
have actual competition instead of the false "capitalism" paradigm we're
having in NA in the TelCo domain.
aka:
Pipes, (BW actual Media)
Services,
-and-
Contents.
stay separate.
( Kinda jealous of France right now )
PS: Preemptive squash about the "big country" BS peddled by CA
TelCo's. We all know the stories how emerging players where "lawyer'ed"
out of existence.
-----
Alain Hebert aheb...@pubnix.net
PubNIX Inc.
50 boul. St-Charles
P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7
Tel: 514-990-5911 http://www.pubnix.net Fax: 514-990-9443
On 3/29/21 2:04 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
The present architecture is logically a bent pipe, where a moving
satellite (preferably more than one, for make before break handoff
function) needs to be simultaneously in view of a starlink earth
station and the CPE.
In the long term this may not be an absolute. Ten beta test satellites
that were launched into a near polar orbit a few months back have test
equipment on them for inter-satellite laser links.
Satellite to Satellite relay by Ka-band for low bandwidth stuff has
been demonstrated and in production for a long time. For quite a while
the only two Iridium earth stations existed in Arizona and Hawaii. A
handheld phone call or SMS from an Iridium terminal anywhere in the
world would make its way through the satellite network to those
locations. Statements by Musk indicate that they have a strong desire
for a long term ability to do something like that, but optically and
with much higher throughput. I would also be surprised if Kuiper does
not have similar intentions.
On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 9:05 PM <blakan...@gmail.com
<mailto:blakan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
This is a fascinating discussion.
Also keep in mind that starlink satellites need many earth
stations to
downlink customer packets and provide internet transit. There are
over
50 satellite earth stations in the US already.
Here is a great google map of the current ground stations based on
FCC
license data:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6554578,-111.9151229,4.5z/data=!4m2!6m1!1s1H1x8jZs8vfjy60TvKgpbYs_grargieVw
<https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6554578,-111.9151229,4.5z/data=!4m2!6m1!1s1H1x8jZs8vfjy60TvKgpbYs_grargieVw>
-Keith
Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote on 3/28/2021 6:58 PM:
> No need for all that fancy RF tools.
> Moreover, detecting >10Ghz transmission is not such an easy task.
> The beam is most likely narrow enough to be difficult to detect.
>
> But, (for example) it's enough to visit from foreign IPs some local
> website,
> to have cookie set: SATELLITE_USER=xyz
> Then when person use local connection and visit same website,
this cookie
> will send law enforcement hint.
> And there are many more automated, software-based ways to detect
that a
> device has been connected via satellite in past.
>
> Not to mention the fact that any attempt to provide services
illegally
> is pandora box.
> At least it may end up with the fact that the country will start
> jamming uplink
> frequencies, which will affect the service in whole region.
> And in the worst case, it will give reason to use anti-satellite
weapons.
>
>
> On 2021-03-29 03:23, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>> I would also concur that the likelihood of Starlink (or a
Oneweb, or
>> Kuiper) terminal being used successfully to bypass the GFW or
similar
>> serious Internet censorship, in an authoritarian environment, is
>> probably low. This is because:
>>
>> a) It has to transmit in known bands.
>>
>> b) It has to be located in a location with a very good, clear
view of
>> the sky in all directions (even a single tree obstruction in one
>> section of the sky, relative to where the antenna is mounted will
>> cause packet loss/periodic issues on a starlink beta terminal right
>> now). Visually identifying the terminal would not be hard.
>>
>> c) Portable spectrum analyzers capable of up to 30 GHz are not
nearly
>> as expensive as they used to be. They also have much better
GUIs and
>> visualization tools than what was available 6-10 years ago.
>>
>> d) You could successfully train local law enforcement to use these
>> sort of portable spectrum analyzers in a one-day, 8-hour training
>> course.
>>
>> e) The equipment would have to be smuggled into the country
>>
>> f) Many people such as in a location like Iran may lack access to a
>> standard payment system for the services (the percentage of
Iranians
>> with access to buy things online with visa/mastercard/american
express
>> or similar is quite low).
>>
>> There are already plenty of places in the world where if you
set up a
>> 1.2, 1.8 or 2.4 meter C, Ku or Ka band VSAT terminal using some
sort
>> of geostationary based services, without appropriate government
>> "licenses", men with guns will come to dismantle it and arrest you.
>>
>> I am not saying it is an impossible problem to solve, but any
system
>> intended for that sort of purpose would have to be designed for
>> circumvention, and not a consumer/COTS adaptation of an off the
shelf
>> starlink terminal.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 8:31 PM na...@jima.us
<mailto:na...@jima.us> <na...@jima.us <mailto:na...@jima.us>> wrote:
>>
>>> Please don't forget that RF sources can be tracked down by even
>>> minimally-well-equipped adversaries.
>>>
>>> - Jima
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+nanog=jima...@nanog.org
<mailto:jima...@nanog.org>> On Behalf Of
>>> scott
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 19:36
>>> To: nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>
>>> Subject: Re: 10 years from now... (was: internet futures)
>>>
>>> On 3/26/2021 9:42 AM, Michael Thomas wrote:
>>>> LEO internet providers will be coming online which might make a
>>>> difference in the corners of the world where it's hard to get
>>> access,
>>>> but will it allow internet access to parachute in behind the
Great
>>>
>>>> Firewall?
>>> ............
>>>> How do the Chinas of the world intend to deal with the Great
>>> Firewall
>>>> implications?
>>>
>>> This is what I hope will change in the next 10 years.
"Turning off
>>> the
>>> internet" will be harder and harder for folks suppressing others,
>>> many
>>> times violently, and hiding it from everyone else. A small-ish
>>> antenna
>>> easily hidden would be necessary.
>>>
>>> scott
