Hi Nick, That's far enough. Good documentation is essential and would probably be required as a design step of this kind of stuff anyway - gotta have good practices before you can wrap them up in an IDE!
---------------------------------------- - Mitch Denny - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.monash.net - +61 (414) 610141 - > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Varacalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:05 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [nant-dev] NAnt Designer Support > > I would love designer support in Nant. I'm not big on XML, > it's lots of angle brackets to me. I'm really into using and > writing rich UIs. However, as the person managing the nightly > build, and the person evangelizing Nant to my co-workers, I > think that documentation is more important. Besides being an > introduction to Nant, the documentation is also many developers' > introduction to automated builds. > > Specifically: > * Full, verbose documentation for each task. As a build > writer, I want/need to know about every corner case, > limitation, and feature of every task. I need to know why the > build behaves the way it does. > * Numerous task based examples within the documentation. > Include answers to FAQs from the dev and user list. > * XML schema, including sub-elements. Instructions on how to > get intellisense working with .build files. > * More example build files. Every task and attribute should > have at least one example if at all possible. > * Best practices documentation on how to manage large / > complex build files. > Building diverse projects across multiple departments with > shared code, 3rd party open source code, 3rd party binaries, > build notifications, logging is difficult. > (If anyone has any suggestions on this, I'm all ears. > We have about 200K worth of build files so far, and have only > about 1/10th of our projects in the daily build.) > * Documentation on how to separate developer build and > automated build. > * Documentation on how to integrate with Visual Studio.Net > tools menu, and other little tips and tricks. > > Just my $0.02. > > Nick Varacalli > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Scott Hernandez > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 14:23 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [nant-dev] NAnt Designer Support > > > Mitch, > > Yeah, it would be nice to put together a real-time chat with > a whiteboard. > Instead though we could post images and storyboards about the > user stories for this idea. I think I understand what is > driving this but part of my ambiguity is not knowing the user > base. It would be great to support all types of users, but > really this tool, along with Ant, requires someone who has a > good grasp of xml and the ability to read the docs. > > If I had an option of where to put resources at this point I > would emphasize getting the docs into a more usable and > easier to read format, then make sure we had good error > messages for validation and an accurate xml schema def. for > all tasks. To that end I have been starting to beef up our > user help (html stuff generated from ndoc) with more > sub-element information and better index. I had already been > working on the nantschema task and working through the > information we generate for exception on validation and xml loading. > > I think this is a great idea, but given the resources we have > available to work on NAnt, it seems unrealistic that we will > have time to work on this for the next few months. On the > other hand, if someone wanted to do it, we would be happy to > take patches :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mitch Denny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Scott Hernandez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 3:05 AM > Subject: RE: [nant-dev] NAnt Designer Support > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > The driver for this kind of functionality would be > orientated more at > > the end user who has been charged with setting up an > automated build. > > With that in mind I think the solution might possibly > consist of a few > > layers: > > > > -------------------------------- > > Tools (e.g. NAntpad) > > -------------------------------- > > NAnt Designers > > -------------------------------- > > NAnt / NAnt DOM > > -------------------------------- > > > > We already have NAnt. What I am suggesting is that as part > of the NAnt > > distribution (or possibly a side project) we start building > a series of > > designers - where designers are just UI bits which can > provide a view of > > an XML element representing a NAnt task. > > > > Other tools (i.e. not part of the NAnt distribution) would use these > > designers to construct their own interfaces. So, for example when > > someone using NAntpad (I'm just using NAntpad as an example > here) uses > > that particular interface to modify the settings on a task, the NAnt > > designer can be invoked to provide the interface. Tool > designers could > > choose to override the designer if they wish but this approach would > > allow task developers to put together usable UI for others > to manipuate > > their tasks with. > > > > Tools could add additional value by providing things like > wizards which > > allow the end user to put together solutions to common problems. For > > example building a VS.NET project, manipulating AssemblyVersionInfo > > files, updating dependencies etc. > > > > Pity we can't get a whiteboard session going :) > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > - Mitch Denny > > - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - http://www.monash.net > > - +61 (414) 610141 > > - > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Scott Hernandez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:04 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [nant-dev] NAnt Designer Support > > > > > > I'm not sure what user experience this would provide. What > > > kind of designer would the nant stuff look like? Would it be > > > like the xsd editor, or database schema editor, with > > > something like a flow diagram of tasks? Would it be a buff'd > > > up tree control, like the vsnet addin is now? I understand > > > that having a designer based solution would allow for much > > > more flexibility and extensibility in the future, but it > > > seems a little much considering we are working on getting a > > > 1.0 release of the core functionally out. I'm really > > > interested in hearing how this stuff would work, and who this > > > is targeted at, but I just don't think I see it yet. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mitch Denny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:31 AM > > > Subject: RE: [nant-dev] NAnt Designer Support > > > > > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > > > We wouldn't need to modify the existing code base much > other than > > > > decorating tasks (and sometimes their properties/attributes with > > > > attributes. The idea behind the design time attributes is > > > not to create > > > > a tool inside the NAnt distribution itself, but rather > support the > > > > development editors like NAntpad. Kinda like the way > the component > > > > designer features in the .NET framework work in VS.NET and > > > WebMatrix. > > > > > > > > The design time tool would reflect over the task class > > > libraries looking > > > > for classes decorated with the designer attribute. When > a task is > > > > selected from a build file the type pointed to by the > > > designer attribute > > > > is created and a method is invoked which returns a UI > > > object which can > > > > be used to build the XML node. This creation method > would have some > > > > contextual information passed to it like which OS/UI > > > toolkit it needs to > > > > support. > > > > > > > > If the designer doesn't support that environment then > the tool (e.g. > > > > NAntpad would gracefully downgrade to its basic capabilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > > > Welcome to geek heaven. > > > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nant-developers mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nant-developers > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > > Welcome to geek heaven. > > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > > _______________________________________________ > > nant-developers mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nant-developers > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > nant-developers mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nant-developers > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > nant-developers mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nant-developers > ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf _______________________________________________ nant-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nant-developers
