On 19 Dec 2022, at 23:09, Serhii Khomenko <[email protected]> wrote:
I still will not get tired of being surprised at how naive people who live in
civilized European countries. Although, maybe it's just a cynicism.
1. The only reason why we are discussing this topic (limiting the rights of
Ukrainian companies) is the aggression of the russians. They are the only ones
who can steal blocks of addresses in Ukraine, threatening the holders of
Internet resources with death.
Instead of punishing the aggressor, you implement restrictions on the victim of
aggression.
-- I assume that this is cynicism.
2. If you did not know, notary services are not for free. We are all Ukrainians now
actively sponsoring the Armed Forces of Ukraine who are the only guarantor of the
security of our companies. And instead of sending funds to strengthen the defense of
Ukraine, you want to implement on us the obligation to pay an additional fees for the
notary services. Thank you so much for your "support".
--
3. As we have already determined, the only reason for your concern and maniacal
desire to violently protect the resources of Ukrainian companies is russians.
Also, everyone knows that hundreds of thousands of russists came not only to
Ukraine, but also to dozens of countries of the European Union. And they can do
whatever they want on the territory of the EU: the Skripal case, the Litvinenko
case etc. The only difference is that Ukrainians have learned how to mix them
with the soil. European countries do not know how to do this. So your companies
are more vulnerable to the russians. Why don't you change the RIPE policy to
limit the rights for companies throughout the territory of RIPE? Why don't you
want to oblige European companies to pay for notary services during transfers
as well or stop any transfers through all the RIPE countries at all?
-- Cynicism? Yes cynicism.
4. Why don't you want to implement a single effective way to protect all
companies within the RIPE —- blocking all transfers to a single criminal -- the
russians??? And it will not be necessary to impose restrictions of the rights
and freedoms for the European companies.
But you won't do that - too much money comes from russists to RIPE, and
everyone knows it.
- You know nothing about European values, unless these values are refined
mercantile cynicism.
IMPLEMENT YOUR RESTRICTIONS FOR russia NOT FOR UKRAINE!!
Or implement the same new policy for the whole RIPE region otherwise it will be
discrimination of Ukraine based on national origin.
Kind regards,
Serhii
пн, 19 груд. 2022 р. о 14:47 <[email protected]> пише:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Survey among Ukrainian companies and Lirs (Sander Steffann)
2. Re: Survey among Ukrainian companies and Lirs (Max Tulyev)
3. Re: Survey among Ukrainian companies and Lirs (Olha Sira)
4. Update on Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks
(Hans Petter Holen)
5. Re: Update on Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks
(Sander Steffann)
6. Re: Update on Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks (Max Tulyev)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 14:50:06 +0100
From: Sander Steffann <[email protected]>
To: Max Tulyev <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Survey among Ukrainian companies and
Lirs
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Max,
Of course they will not reply.
We are seeing now the finish of "afrinicization" of RIPE NCC. NCC is no more community
and consensus driving. They works on behalf on some "crystal clear" government people,
probably for free, but I'm not sure.
Please keep such unfounded accusations to yourself
Sander
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 15:56:37 +0200
From: Max Tulyev <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Survey among Ukrainian companies and
Lirs
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
If I see no clear reason for some action, I will come up with the most
appropriate one. And it is not good for sure. Because it looks like this
I said.
19.12.22 15:50, Sander Steffann ????:
Hi Max,
Of course they will not reply.
We are seeing now the finish of "afrinicization" of RIPE NCC. NCC is no more community
and consensus driving. They works on behalf on some "crystal clear" government people,
probably for free, but I'm not sure.
Please keep such unfounded accusations to yourself
Sander
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 14:15:10 +0000
From: Olha Sira <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Survey among Ukrainian companies and
Lirs
Message-ID:
<caenpxnrwx2isbmnig5i93smdd_p99sb3xy5wy07yeqk9zbu...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
+1
On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 1:38 PM Matthias Merkel <[email protected]>
wrote:
Delays are expected, but it now seems like transfers are paused entirely.
If this is not the case then perhaps the NCC should clarify?
?
Matthias Merkel
[image: Sent from Front]
On December 19, 2022 at 2:37 PM GMT+1 [email protected]
wrote:
Matthias Merkel <[email protected]> wrote:
Can we get any kind of official statement from the RIPE NCC on the
current status on this?
The explanation for the extra delays was made on this mailing list by
Hans Petter Holen on Wed, 2 Nov 2022:
As an immediate response, all transfer requests from Ukrainian
networks will be escalated to me until further notice. We will of
course continue to apply the highest levels of due diligence when
reviewing these requests. This will add some amount of delay, which
I think is entirely appropriate under the circumstances and given
the seriousness of the concerns that have been raised.
However, if the delays would become too important, I suppose this
decision should be reversed.
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 15:18:42 +0100
From: Hans Petter Holen <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ncc-services-wg] Update on Measures to Protect Ukrainian
Networks
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Dear colleagues,
I want to update you on measures to protect the resources of RIPE NCC
members in Ukraine following my last email in October[1].
After discussions with our Executive Board, we are now ready to begin
implementation of a ?voluntary registry lock? in the LIR Portal. This
will be available for all RIPE NCC members, including those in Ukraine,
on an opt-in basis. The lock will allow members to prevent their
resources from being transferred for a defined period. We expect
technical implementation to be completed before the end of the year.
The authority to implement this feature comes from a Board resolution
that was passed at the 163rd RIPE NCC Executive Board Meeting on 14-15
December 2022. The effect of the resolution is that Members and End
Users (represented by their sponsoring LIRs) will be allowed to request
the prevention of their resources from being transferred for a period of
six months. And all transfer requests from Ukraine, including the
pending ones, will only be processed if accompanied by notarised
supporting documents. We will contact all Ukrainian members with pending
transfers to make sure they are aware of these requirements. And for
members with pending transfers who wish to make them before the end of
the year, we will not charge fees for 2023 if these extra requirements
mean that the LIR accounts in question cannot be closed by the end of 2022.
The Board made this resolution taking into account:
- The concerns expressed by Ukrainian members at the RIPE 85 Meeting in
October 2022
- The RIPE NCC?s commitment to be neutral and impartial
- The time needed for the formation of a permanent solution addressing
these concerns through the Policy Development Process (PDP)
- The RIPE community?s support to accommodate a temporary solution
This resolution comes with an expiry date of 1 July 2023. We hope that
the RIPE community will use this time to agree on a policy proposal that
gives us a clear mandate to provide this lock as a lasting solution to
all members who see the need for it. Our Policy Officer is available to
offer guidance and administrative support to get the proposal through
the RIPE Policy Development Process.
From comments at RIPE 85, we understand that some people do not think
this should be a policy matter. However, as we explained at that
meeting, the RIPE NCC cannot limit the transfer rights of paying members
without either a solid legal basis or a clear mandate from the RIPE
community.
It is in this context that we must note that the lock will not prevent
resources from being transferred in cases of merger or acquisition. It
will also not prevent transfers in cases where a bankrupt company goes
into liquidation.
Finally, in my last email, I said that requests from Ukraine would
receive the ?highest levels of due diligence?, and I want to explain
what this means. In recent years, we have developed a framework that
describes what information our staff will ask for when handling
requests. By applying the strongest approach within this framework, we
will be going beyond our standard requirements and asking to verify
additional documents. With the passing of this resolution, transfers
will follow the process outlined here and will not be escalated to the
Managing Director for approval.
We hope that our Ukrainian members will understand that this is part of
our efforts to protect their resources.
As mentioned above, we will share more specific information on the
registry lock before the end of the year ? including how it can be
activated and by whom, and what it does and does not restrict.
Kind regards
Hans Petter Holen
Managing Director
RIPE NCC
[1] Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks:
https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2022-November/003668.html
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 15:30:08 +0100
From: Sander Steffann <[email protected]>
To: Hans Petter Holen <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Update on Measures to Protect Ukrainian
Networks
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Hans Petter,
After discussions with our Executive Board, we are now ready to begin
implementation of a ?voluntary registry lock? in the LIR Portal. This will be
available for all RIPE NCC members, including those in Ukraine, on an opt-in
basis. The lock will allow members to prevent their resources from being
transferred for a defined period. We expect technical implementation to be
completed before the end of the year.
Awesome! Thank you and the board for getting this difficult step done.
The Board made this resolution taking into account:
- The concerns expressed by Ukrainian members at the RIPE 85 Meeting in October
2022
- The RIPE NCC?s commitment to be neutral and impartial
- The time needed for the formation of a permanent solution addressing these
concerns through the Policy Development Process (PDP)
- The RIPE community?s support to accommodate a temporary solution
+1 much appreciated!
This resolution comes with an expiry date of 1 July 2023. We hope that the RIPE
community will use this time to agree on a policy proposal that gives us a
clear mandate to provide this lock as a lasting solution to all members who see
the need for it. Our Policy Officer is available to offer guidance and
administrative support to get the proposal through the RIPE Policy Development
Process.
After making so much noise I feel I should volunteer here :)
From comments at RIPE 85, we understand that some people do not think this
should be a policy matter. However, as we explained at that meeting, the RIPE
NCC cannot limit the transfer rights of paying members without either a solid
legal basis or a clear mandate from the RIPE community.
I still think that limiting an LIR based on their own request shouldn?t be a
problem, but ok, let?s work together on this and get a policy.
It is in this context that we must note that the lock will not prevent
resources from being transferred in cases of merger or acquisition. It will
also not prevent transfers in cases where a bankrupt company goes into
liquidation.
Sensible limitations, I have no problem with them.
Finally, in my last email, I said that requests from Ukraine would receive the
?highest levels of due diligence?, and I want to explain what this means. In
recent years, we have developed a framework that describes what information our
staff will ask for when handling requests. By applying the strongest approach
within this framework, we will be going beyond our standard requirements and
asking to verify additional documents. With the passing of this resolution,
transfers will follow the process outlined here and will not be escalated to
the Managing Director for approval.
Sounds good, you shouldn?t need to involve yourself in the workflow. You have
very experienced staff for that :)
We hope that our Ukrainian members will understand that this is part of our
efforts to protect their resources.
As mentioned above, we will share more specific information on the registry
lock before the end of the year ? including how it can be activated and by
whom, and what it does and does not restrict.
Thank you!
Sander
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 16:46:57 +0200
From: Max Tulyev <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Update on Measures to Protect Ukrainian
Networks
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Dear Hans,
I see a lot of words, but only one fact: it is unable to make a transfer
since October because of (unofficial) ban exists.
You did not have mandate (consensus) from the community, but in fact you
did it.
Please, retire yourself from your position. Save the RIPE/RIPE NCC
relations!
19.12.22 16:18, Hans Petter Holen ????:
Dear colleagues,
I want to update you on measures to protect the resources of RIPE NCC
members in Ukraine following my last email in October[1].
After discussions with our Executive Board, we are now ready to begin
implementation of a ?voluntary registry lock? in the LIR Portal. This
will be available for all RIPE NCC members, including those in Ukraine,
on an opt-in basis. The lock will allow members to prevent their
resources from being transferred for a defined period. We expect
technical implementation to be completed before the end of the year.
The authority to implement this feature comes from a Board resolution
that was passed at the 163rd RIPE NCC Executive Board Meeting on 14-15
December 2022. The effect of the resolution is that Members and End
Users (represented by their sponsoring LIRs) will be allowed to request
the prevention of their resources from being transferred for a period of
six months. And all transfer requests from Ukraine, including the
pending ones, will only be processed if accompanied by notarised
supporting documents. We will contact all Ukrainian members with pending
transfers to make sure they are aware of these requirements. And for
members with pending transfers who wish to make them before the end of
the year, we will not charge fees for 2023 if these extra requirements
mean that the LIR accounts in question cannot be closed by the end of 2022.
The Board made this resolution taking into account:
- The concerns expressed by Ukrainian members at the RIPE 85 Meeting in
October 2022
- The RIPE NCC?s commitment to be neutral and impartial
- The time needed for the formation of a permanent solution addressing
these concerns through the Policy Development Process (PDP)
- The RIPE community?s support to accommodate a temporary solution
This resolution comes with an expiry date of 1 July 2023. We hope that
the RIPE community will use this time to agree on a policy proposal that
gives us a clear mandate to provide this lock as a lasting solution to
all members who see the need for it. Our Policy Officer is available to
offer guidance and administrative support to get the proposal through
the RIPE Policy Development Process.
From comments at RIPE 85, we understand that some people do not think
this should be a policy matter. However, as we explained at that
meeting, the RIPE NCC cannot limit the transfer rights of paying members
without either a solid legal basis or a clear mandate from the RIPE
community.
It is in this context that we must note that the lock will not prevent
resources from being transferred in cases of merger or acquisition. It
will also not prevent transfers in cases where a bankrupt company goes
into liquidation.
Finally, in my last email, I said that requests from Ukraine would
receive the ?highest levels of due diligence?, and I want to explain
what this means. In recent years, we have developed a framework that
describes what information our staff will ask for when handling
requests. By applying the strongest approach within this framework, we
will be going beyond our standard requirements and asking to verify
additional documents. With the passing of this resolution, transfers
will follow the process outlined here and will not be escalated to the
Managing Director for approval.
We hope that our Ukrainian members will understand that this is part of
our efforts to protect their resources.
As mentioned above, we will share more specific information on the
registry lock before the end of the year ? including how it can be
activated and by whom, and what it does and does not restrict.
Kind regards
Hans Petter Holen
Managing Director
RIPE NCC
[1] Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks:
https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2022-November/003668.html
------------------------------
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