RE: Compliance --- the way to go

[Salisbury, Todd]

BAD MSG:

ll,
Another source that really explains the current position of the RBOCs and the 
effect of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 on CLECs and ILECs is a book 
called "The Essential Guide to Telecommunications". This makes for extremely 
interesting reading and is available at most bookstores.
Todd Salisbury
Fujitsu Network Communications

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don House [SMTP:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 2:25 PM
> To:   nebs@world.std.com
> Cc:   rfbi...@hem.com
> Subject:      RE: Compliance --- the way to go
> 
> Brian and friends,
> 
> The Telecom Act is written in "Legaleze"  There is a nice abridged version
> that Ameritech published that I still have a copy of. I will scan it and
> have it put it on my website.  If you want the full boat edition you can
> order it from the U.S.G.P.O. Superintendent of Documents.  It will take me a
> couple of days to get this done.  My website address is:
> http://www.nadcomm.org
> 
> Don 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 7:50 AM
> To: nebs@world.std.com
> Subject: RE: Compliance --- the way to go
> 
> 
> Don
> This act was mentioned a lot at the conference - how do I get my mits 
> on a copy ?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dho...@excelsus-tech.com [SMTP:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:31 PM
> To:   nebs@world.std.com
> Subject:      Compliance --- the way to go
> 
> There is no room for negotiation, except for a few points dependent on
> location, such as physical environment, altitude, earthquake zone, etc.
> Since the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the former Bell companies have
> tightened up loop-holes and insured that requirements are documented 
> more
> than ever before.  UL1950, FCC Parts 15 and 68, NEBS FR-2063-CORE and
> Regional specific requirements... they all need to be reviewed.
> 
> Been there, done that, wrote the policy.
> 
> Don  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 2:46 AM
> To: nebs@world.std.com
> Subject: RE: 
> 
> 
> Vic
> Not sure if you were at the NEBS 2000 in Baltimore last week. Sounds to 
> me like there is not too much room for negotiating with some of the 
> RBOCs.
> 
> Brian
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: j...@world.std.com [SMTP:j...@world.std.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 2:14 PM
> To:   nebs@world.std.com
> Subject:      
> 
> Submitted for Victor Boersma
> 
> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
> From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
> Sender: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
> To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
>         "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
>         "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
>         "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
>         Victor Boersma <vboer...@home.com>
> 
> Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
> formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
> arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).
> 
> The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
> that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
> and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
> between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
> can negotiate on these requirements.
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> 
> Vic Boersma
> 
> 

From - Wed Oct 04 23:31:48 2000
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From: "Whissel, Tom" <whis...@enterasys.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: from ["Alden, Daryl" <daryl.al...@edwards.boc.com>]    (fwd)
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:50:26 -0400


OSHA still requires that all electrical products used at work be listed with
an NRTL.  At this time OSHA has not approved any NRTL's outside of North
America.  So, you still need to meet both standards.

Note:  TUV Rheinland of North America, Inc. (TUV) is now listed as an NRTL.
Only their Newtown facility is authorized to approve products as an NRTL.

Thomas Whissel, Compliance Engineering Manager


35 Industrial Way
PO Box 5005
Rochester, NH 03867

(603)337-2862

www.enterasys.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon D Curtis [mailto:j...@world.std.com]
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 6:27 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: from ["Alden, Daryl" <daryl.al...@edwards.boc.com>] (fwd)



Can anybody advise me whether an MRA (mutual recognition agreement )exsists
between the EU and the US?
If so does this mean that electrical and mechanical products tested to CE
standards do not need further approval (UL?) to be marketed in the states.
Thanks.

From - Wed Oct 04 23:31:51 2000
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Dear Ed,

Thanks for your clarification and a copy of revised  "An overview of the
current Approval for the Russian Federation", Issue 2.

Let us not forget that NEBS documents specify set of requirements
(occasionally procedures)and refer to applicable US testing standards not
necessarily harmonized with international standards.

Vitaly  Gorodetsky

The suitability of this information for making decision is solely with the
reader


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Edward Fitzgerald [SMTP:edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com]
        Sent:   Friday, September 29, 2000 2:30 AM
        To:     'Gorodetsky, Vitaly'; 'Dave Wilson'; 'nebs@world.std.com';
'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 't...@world.std.com'
        Subject:        RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS


        Dear Dave / Vitaly,

        In general terms throughout Europe (West [EU] - Central - East
[incl.
        CIS]) the ETS 300 019/119 series tends to take precedence [over
NEBS]
        where required by customers (e.g. Network Operators).

        There are no regulatory requirements in the EU and strictly speaking
        there are only environmental & reliability requirements to be met
for
        the Russian Federation's Elektrosviaz (Telecom) Certification.

        As US manufacturers tend only to test for NEBS, I have had to use
the
        relevant NEBS or HALT test reports to support the TT&C [Technical
Terms
        & Conditions] document presented to the State Committee.  In terms
of
        test reports demonstrating compliance with Safety and EMC, NEBS
reports
        would not be accepted albeit that they are now closely aligned with
        International standards.

        Best regards,

        Edward Fitzgerald
        Director
        Direct Tel. : +44 1202 20 09 22
        Mobile Tel. : +44 7768 53 31 00 
        European Technology Services (EMEA)
        Specialist Global Compliance and Regulatory Consultancy
        Regional/Associate Offices in Australia, Canada, Russian Federation
and
        the UK. 
        GLOBAL INtelLIGENCE Site < http://www.ets-tele.com > pssst ...
spread
        the word 


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Gorodetsky, Vitaly [mailto:vgorodet...@canoga.com]
        Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 1:01 AM
        To: 'Dave Wilson'; 'nebs@world.std.com'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org';
        't...@world.std.com'
        Subject: RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS



        Dave,

        I am quite familiar with LONIIS (in St. Petersburg) and I am rather
        surprised.  Typically, GOST-R mark would be satisfactory.  LONIIS is
one
        of
        Russia Telecom Certification Centers.  NEBS has nothing to do with
        homologation and LONIIS's scope of evaluation, as I see it.  Did
they
        take
        NEBS tests results as a substitute for all other relevant safety and
EMC
        tests?

        Could you elaborate?
        Thanks,
        Vitaly  Gorodetsky
        Compliance Engineer                     Direct: (818) 678-3840

        The suitability of this information for making decision is solely
with
        the
        reader


                -----Original Message-----
                From:   Dave Wilson [SMTP:dwil...@alidian.com]
                Sent:   Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:45 PM
                To:     'nebs@world.std.com'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org';
        't...@world.std.com'
                Subject:        ETSI standards vs NEBS

                Does anyone have a feel for the degree of acceptance of
        GR-63/1089
        in
                Europe? I can remember at a previous company we got LONIIS
in
        Russia
        to
                accept NEBS test results with minimal additional assessment
        against
        ETS 300
                019/119.

                Anyone else have any stories to tell, other than the obvious
        spatial
                differences?

                Thanks,

                Dave Wilson
                Alidian Networks

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From - Wed Oct 04 23:32:15 2000
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Subject: Re: GR1089 Radiated Magnetic Field limits
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I'm sure the emc experts presenting material during the emc tracks at the
UL NEBS symposium in Vegas this week could shed some light on this issue.
See www.ul.com.

Randy Ivans
Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
Melville, NY 11747
TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
Department FAX: 631-439-6096
Direct FAX: 631-439-6131
email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com



                                                                                
           
                    n...@world.st                                               
           
                    d.com                To:     nebs@world.std.com             
           
                                         cc:     (bcc: Randolph J. 
Ivans/MEL/ULI)          
                    09/27/00             Subject:     Re: GR1089 Radiated 
Magnetic Field   
                    10:56 AM             limits                                 
           
                                                                                
           
                                                                                
           





Did you get any responses to your question?

What part of the math didn't work out?


On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:06:23 -0700, David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
wrote:
>I am working out a test plan for the magnetic field requirements in GR1089
>3.2.2 and noticed that the math didn't work when I started figuring the
>dBuA/m for a 10 meter site.  This is kind of a duh question, but am I
>correct in assuming that we need to do the H fields at 3 meters?  If
someone
>wouldn't mind sharing the distances they use for this test, I would be
most
>grateful.
>Thanks,
>Dave Spencer     Compliance Engineer
>Oresis Communications, Inc.
>14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
>* dspen...@oresis.com  * http://www.oresis.com
>* (503) 466-6289  * (503) 533-8233





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IGV1cm9wZS5zdGQuY29tIGlkIExBQTIzNjA2DQpTZW5kZXI6IG5lYnMtYXBwcm92YWxAd29ybGQu
c3RkLmNvbQ0KUHJlY2VkZW5jZTogbGlzdA0KUmVwbHktVG86IG5lYnNAd29ybGQuc3RkLmNvbQ0K

--0__=nvFwNdfSKkis36Mw78H9GjaRbP4HSQJNShNlDfKF3xg9VZilXHUW9shu--

From - Mon Oct 09 05:48:10 2000
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Message-ID: <4d9bc443b5dbd21193a400104b8ad3d0076...@ets1.ets-tele.com>
From: Edward Fitzgerald <edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com>
To: "'Robert Macy'" <m...@global.california.com>
Cc: "NEBS Newsgroup (E-mail)" <NEBS@world.std.com>,
        "TREG Reflector (E-mail)" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "EMC-PSTC (E-mail)"
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Subject: RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
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Robert,

Yes, as far as I am aware there are no legislative (regulatory)
requirements that would enforce either the ETS 300 019 or ETS 300 119
series of ETSI standards.

There is Directive 94/62/EC that deals with packaging.  Also draft
legislation to cover environmental concerns for recycling and use of
lead etc. (the WEEE Directive and its derivatives) and proposals to
implement the Energy Star programme in Europe.
But nothing specific to central office environments or telecoms for that
matter that would enforce the ETSI equivalent of the NEBS standards.

I hope this clarifies my earlier statement.  In fact, to my knowledge
NEBS is also only a commercial compliance issue - isn't it?

Best regards and those of you in N.America have a relaxing long weekend,
Edward

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Macy [mailto:m...@california.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 8:01 PM
To: Edward Fitzgerald
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS



-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Fitzgerald <edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com>
To: 'Gorodetsky, Vitaly' <vgorodet...@canoga.com>; 'Dave Wilson'
<dwil...@alidian.com>; 'nebs@world.std.com' <nebs@world.std.com>;
'emc-p...@ieee.org' <emc-p...@ieee.org>; 't...@world.std.com'
<t...@world.std.com>
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 3:20 AM
Subject: RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS


>
>Dear Dave / Vitaly,
>
>In general terms throughout Europe (West [EU] - Central - East [incl.
>CIS]) the ETS 300 019/119 series tends to take precedence [over NEBS]
>where required by customers (e.g. Network Operators).
>
>There are no regulatory requirements in the EU and strictly speaking
>there are only environmental & reliability requirements to be met for
>the Russian Federation's Elektrosviaz (Telecom) Certification.
>




Are you saying there are no regulatory requirements in the EU to comply
with
the ETSI standards?

 
-
Robert -

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From - Mon Oct 09 05:49:03 2000
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forwarded for Edward
---------------------

Robert,

Yes, as far as I am aware there are no legislative (regulatory)
requirements that would enforce either the ETS 300 019 or ETS 300 119
series of ETSI standards.

There is Directive 94/62/EC that deals with packaging.  Also draft
legislation to cover environmental concerns for recycling and use of
lead etc. (the WEEE Directive and its derivatives) and proposals to
implement the Energy Star programme in Europe.
But nothing specific to central office environments or telecoms for that
matter that would enforce the ETSI equivalent of the NEBS standards.

I hope this clarifies my earlier statement.  In fact, to my knowledge
NEBS is also only a commercial compliance issue - isn't it?

Best regards and those of you in N.America have a relaxing long weekend,
Edward

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Macy [mailto:m...@california.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 8:01 PM
To: Edward Fitzgerald
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS



-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Fitzgerald <edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com>
To: 'Gorodetsky, Vitaly' <vgorodet...@canoga.com>; 'Dave Wilson'
<dwil...@alidian.com>; 'nebs@world.std.com' <nebs@world.std.com>;
'emc-p...@ieee.org' <emc-p...@ieee.org>; 't...@world.std.com'
<t...@world.std.com>
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 3:20 AM
Subject: RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS


>
>Dear Dave / Vitaly,
>
>In general terms throughout Europe (West [EU] - Central - East [incl.
>CIS]) the ETS 300 019/119 series tends to take precedence [over NEBS]
>where required by customers (e.g. Network Operators).
>
>There are no regulatory requirements in the EU and strictly speaking
>there are only environmental & reliability requirements to be met for
>the Russian Federation's Elektrosviaz (Telecom) Certification.
>




Are you saying there are no regulatory requirements in the EU to comply
with
the ETSI standards?

 
-
Robert -

From - Mon Oct 09 05:49:45 2000
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List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
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Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).

The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
can negotiate on these requirements.

Ciao,


Vic Boersma

From - Tue Oct 10 05:11:35 2000
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Submitted for avi.rubinsht...@ecitele.com

Subject: RE: Air filters
To: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com
Cc: nebs@world.std.com
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 02:26:20 +0300
Message-ID: <ofb5742e32.84e20b6e-onc2256970.00803...@ecitele.com>
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Brian,

There is a specific SBC requirement (which is an addition to GR-63) in
their document TP76200MP from December 30, 1998 - titled:"NETWORK EQUIPMENT
POWER, GROUNDING, ENVIRONMENTAL, AND PHYSICAL DESIGN EQUIREMENTS".
The requirement is:
"11.03 Fan cooled equipment shall be equipped with filters.
Exception: Fans used to cool the outside of sealed equipment cabinets need not 
be fitted with
particulate filters."

Avi Rubinshtein
ECI Telecom.
-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:36 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Air filters


Can somebody answer this simple question:

Under what circumstances, if any, are you obliged to have an air filter
in your product ?

What standard and clause(s) specify this requirement ?

Brian McAuliffe
Tellabs





From - Tue Oct 10 05:11:35 2000
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Submitted for avi.rubinsht...@ecitele.com

Subject: RE: Air filters
To: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com
Cc: nebs@world.std.com
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 02:26:20 +0300
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Brian,

There is a specific SBC requirement (which is an addition to GR-63) in
their document TP76200MP from December 30, 1998 - titled:"NETWORK EQUIPMENT
POWER, GROUNDING, ENVIRONMENTAL, AND PHYSICAL DESIGN EQUIREMENTS".
The requirement is:
"11.03 Fan cooled equipment shall be equipped with filters.
Exception: Fans used to cool the outside of sealed equipment cabinets need not 
be fitted with
particulate filters."

Avi Rubinshtein
ECI Telecom.
-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:36 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Air filters


Can somebody answer this simple question:

Under what circumstances, if any, are you obliged to have an air filter
in your product ?

What standard and clause(s) specify this requirement ?

Brian McAuliffe
Tellabs





From - Wed Oct 11 05:48:55 2000
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Vic
Not sure if you were at the NEBS 2000 in Baltimore last week. Sounds to 
me like there is not too much room for negotiating with some of the 
RBOCs.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From:   j...@world.std.com [SMTP:j...@world.std.com]
Sent:   Monday, October 09, 2000 2:14 PM
To:     nebs@world.std.com
Subject:        

Submitted for Victor Boersma

List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
Sender: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
        "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        Victor Boersma <vboer...@home.com>

Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).

The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
can negotiate on these requirements.

Ciao,


Vic Boersma



From - Wed Oct 11 05:49:20 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Compliance --- the way to go
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There is no room for negotiation, except for a few points dependent on
location, such as physical environment, altitude, earthquake zone, etc.
Since the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the former Bell companies have
tightened up loop-holes and insured that requirements are documented more
than ever before.  UL1950, FCC Parts 15 and 68, NEBS FR-2063-CORE and
Regional specific requirements... they all need to be reviewed.

Been there, done that, wrote the policy.

Don  

-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 2:46 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: 


Vic
Not sure if you were at the NEBS 2000 in Baltimore last week. Sounds to 
me like there is not too much room for negotiating with some of the 
RBOCs.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From:   j...@world.std.com [SMTP:j...@world.std.com]
Sent:   Monday, October 09, 2000 2:14 PM
To:     nebs@world.std.com
Subject:        

Submitted for Victor Boersma

List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
Sender: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
        "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        Victor Boersma <vboer...@home.com>

Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).

The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
can negotiate on these requirements.

Ciao,


Vic Boersma


From - Wed Oct 11 05:49:23 2000
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Subject: RE: Compliance --- the way to go
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Don
This act was mentioned a lot at the conference - how do I get my mits 
on a copy ?

-----Original Message-----
From:   dho...@excelsus-tech.com [SMTP:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
Sent:   Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:31 PM
To:     nebs@world.std.com
Subject:        Compliance --- the way to go

There is no room for negotiation, except for a few points dependent on
location, such as physical environment, altitude, earthquake zone, etc.
Since the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the former Bell companies have
tightened up loop-holes and insured that requirements are documented 
more
than ever before.  UL1950, FCC Parts 15 and 68, NEBS FR-2063-CORE and
Regional specific requirements... they all need to be reviewed.

Been there, done that, wrote the policy.

Don  

-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 2:46 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: 


Vic
Not sure if you were at the NEBS 2000 in Baltimore last week. Sounds to 
me like there is not too much room for negotiating with some of the 
RBOCs.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From:   j...@world.std.com [SMTP:j...@world.std.com]
Sent:   Monday, October 09, 2000 2:14 PM
To:     nebs@world.std.com
Subject:        

Submitted for Victor Boersma

List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
Sender: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
        "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        Victor Boersma <vboer...@home.com>

Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).

The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
can negotiate on these requirements.

Ciao,


Vic Boersma




From - Wed Oct 11 05:49:28 2000
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Subject: RE: Compliance --- the way to go; telecom act
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Information on the 1996 telecom act can be found at:
http://www.fcc.gov/telecom.html

Randy Ivans
Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
Melville, NY 11747
TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
Department FAX: 631-439-6096
Direct FAX: 631-439-6131
email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com




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From - Wed Oct 11 05:49:56 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Cc: rfbi...@hem.com
Subject: RE: Compliance --- the way to go
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:24:34 -0700
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Brian and friends,

The Telecom Act is written in "Legaleze"  There is a nice abridged version
that Ameritech published that I still have a copy of. I will scan it and
have it put it on my website.  If you want the full boat edition you can
order it from the U.S.G.P.O. Superintendent of Documents.  It will take me a
couple of days to get this done.  My website address is:
http://www.nadcomm.org

Don 

-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 7:50 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: Compliance --- the way to go


Don
This act was mentioned a lot at the conference - how do I get my mits 
on a copy ?

-----Original Message-----
From:   dho...@excelsus-tech.com [SMTP:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
Sent:   Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:31 PM
To:     nebs@world.std.com
Subject:        Compliance --- the way to go

There is no room for negotiation, except for a few points dependent on
location, such as physical environment, altitude, earthquake zone, etc.
Since the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the former Bell companies have
tightened up loop-holes and insured that requirements are documented 
more
than ever before.  UL1950, FCC Parts 15 and 68, NEBS FR-2063-CORE and
Regional specific requirements... they all need to be reviewed.

Been there, done that, wrote the policy.

Don  

-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 2:46 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: 


Vic
Not sure if you were at the NEBS 2000 in Baltimore last week. Sounds to 
me like there is not too much room for negotiating with some of the 
RBOCs.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From:   j...@world.std.com [SMTP:j...@world.std.com]
Sent:   Monday, October 09, 2000 2:14 PM
To:     nebs@world.std.com
Subject:        

Submitted for Victor Boersma

List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
Sender: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
        "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        Victor Boersma <vboer...@home.com>

Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).

The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
can negotiate on these requirements.

Ciao,


Vic Boersma



From - Wed Oct 11 05:50:14 2000
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:01:42 -0700
From: Nazeeh Shaheen <nshah...@occamnetworks.com>
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Subject: Principal Compliance Engineer
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Position:
Compliance Engineer
ITE Equipment
BSEE or equivalent
Familiarity with LAN/WAN technologies
Product Safety
EMI/EMC
Network Attachment
NEBS

Location:
Occam Networks 
4183 State Street
Santa Barbara, CA 93110

Company:
Occam Networks is an early stage start up which received initial Series A
funding in Feb 2000.  Occam Networks' mission is to be the leading provider of
low-cost, high-function IP access devices to the service provider market.

Perks:
Absolute coolest company to work for.  No egos, just brilliant people. 
Plus...
pre-IPO stock options, 
very casual dress,
bring pet to work atmosphere, 
telecommute friendly, 
weekly massage, 
team building events, 
endless snacks and drinks
paid health club membership, 
very progressive and supportive management
educational reimbursement 
relocation assistance
401K
the typical health dental vision life LTD stuff

From - Wed Oct 11 23:34:53 2000
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submitted for administra...@inrange.com
-----------------------------------------
To: nebs@world.std.com
Cc: administra...@smtpgss.gensig.com

Vic
Not sure if you were at the NEBS 2000 in Baltimore last week. Sounds to 
me like there is not too much room for negotiating with some of the 
RBOCs.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From:   j...@world.std.com [SMTP:j...@world.std.com]
Sent:   Monday, October 09, 2000 2:14 PM
To:     nebs@world.std.com
Subject:        

Submitted for Victor Boersma

List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
Sender: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
        "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        Victor Boersma <vboer...@home.com>

Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).

The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
can negotiate on these requirements.

Ciao,


Vic Boersma



From - Wed Oct 11 23:34:52 2000
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submitted for Chuck Graff
--------------------------

Anyone who was at the NEBS conference in Baltimore last week heard the same
answer from the RBOC's who were present.

All requirements must be met. There is no room for negotiations.

Chuck Graff
Verizon Communications




brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com on 10/10/2000 05:46:04 AM

Please respond to nebs@world.std.com
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
 To:      nebs@world.std.com                                  
                                                              
 cc:      (bcc: Chuck Graff)                                  
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
 Subject: RE:                                                 
                                                              





Vic
Not sure if you were at the NEBS 2000 in Baltimore last week. Sounds to
me like there is not too much room for negotiating with some of the
RBOCs.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From:     j...@world.std.com [SMTP:j...@world.std.com]
Sent:     Monday, October 09, 2000 2:14 PM
To:  nebs@world.std.com
Subject:

Submitted for Victor Boersma

List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
Sender: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
        "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        Victor Boersma <vboer...@home.com>

Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).

The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
can negotiate on these requirements.

Ciao,


Vic Boersma







From - Wed Oct 11 23:35:08 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:54:04 -0700
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Thank you Chuck,
I could not say it better myself.
Best Regards,
Don

-----Original Message--- --
From: Jon D Curtis [mailto:j...@world.std.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 3:03 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: 


submitted for Chuck Graff
--------------------------

Anyone who was at the NEBS conference in Baltimore last week heard the same
answer from the RBOC's who were present.

All requirements must be met. There is no room for negotiations.

Chuck Graff
Verizon Communications




brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com on 10/10/2000 05:46:04 AM

Please respond to nebs@world.std.com
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
 To:      nebs@world.std.com                                  
                                                              
 cc:      (bcc: Chuck Graff)                                  
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
 Subject: RE:                                                 
                                                              





Vic
Not sure if you were at the NEBS 2000 in Baltimore last week. Sounds to
me like there is not too much room for negotiating with some of the
RBOCs.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From:     j...@world.std.com [SMTP:j...@world.std.com]
Sent:     Monday, October 09, 2000 2:14 PM
To:  nebs@world.std.com
Subject:

Submitted for Victor Boersma

List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:16:55 -0400
From: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ETSI standards vs NEBS
Sender: "Victor L. Boersma" <vboer...@compuserve.com>
To: Chris Penney <c...@cjpen.co.uk>, Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
        "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        Victor Boersma <vboer...@home.com>

Just a minute here.  NEBs are requirements for Network Equipment
formulated by what was the Bell Operating Companies' research
arm Bellcore.  (They have now been cast adrift as Telecordia).

The Operating Companies have done a good job of making sure
that the requirements for their equipment were not regulated
and are in effect part of the commercial negotiations that take place
between the buyer and the seller.  If you're a big enough seller, you
can negotiate on these requirements.

Ciao,


Vic Boersma






From - Tue Oct 17 04:59:27 2000
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Subject: Re: Principal Compliance Engineer
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--0__=8525697A004E52038f9e8a93df938690918c8525697A004E5203
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Attached is my resume.

(See attached file: CV to LU.doc)

Kenny M. Bello
Regulatory Compliance Engineer
Lucent Technologies, Broadband Carrier Networks
Access Technology Division
InterNetworking Systems
(301) 809-4414
(301) 352-4680 FAX
mkbe...@lucent.com


                                                                                
                                    
                    Nazeeh Shaheen                                              
                                    
                    <nshaheen@occamnet        To:     "'t...@world.std.com'" 
<t...@world.std.com>,                  
                    works.com>                "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>, "'nebs@world.std.com'"     
                    Sent by:                  <nebs@world.std.com>              
                                    
                    nebs-approval@worl        cc:                               
                                    
                    d.std.com                 Subject:     Principal Compliance 
Engineer                            
                                                                                
                                    
                                                                                
                                    
                    10/10/00 06:01 PM                                           
                                    
                    Please respond to                                           
                                    
                    nebs                                                        
                                    
                                                                                
                                    
                                                                                
                                    



Position:
Compliance Engineer
ITE Equipment
BSEE or equivalent
Familiarity with LAN/WAN technologies
Product Safety
EMI/EMC
Network Attachment
NEBS

Location:
Occam Networks
4183 State Street
Santa Barbara, CA 93110

Company:
Occam Networks is an early stage start up which received initial Series A
funding in Feb 2000.  Occam Networks' mission is to be the leading provider
of
low-cost, high-function IP access devices to the service provider market.

Perks:
Absolute coolest company to work for.  No egos, just brilliant people.
Plus...
pre-IPO stock options,
very casual dress,
bring pet to work atmosphere,
telecommute friendly,
weekly massage,
team building events,
endless snacks and drinks
paid health club membership,
very progressive and supportive management
educational reimbursement
relocation assistance
401K
the typical health dental vision life LTD stuff



--0__=8525697A004E52038f9e8a93df938690918c8525697A004E5203
Content-type: application/msword; 
        name="CV to LU.doc"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="CV to LU.doc"
Content-transfer-encoding: base64
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--0__=8525697A004E52038f9e8a93df938690918c8525697A004E5203--

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Subject: Re: Principal Compliance Engineer
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Please disregard the email with the resume attached. It wasn't
intended for the group.


Kenny Bello
mkbe...@lucent.com

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Hope your boss doesn't read this list!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <mkbe...@lucent.com>
To: <nebs@world.std.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Principal Compliance Engineer




Please disregard the email with the resume attached. It wasn't
intended for the group.


Kenny Bello
mkbe...@lucent.com



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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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        charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Group, =20

Are there any differences between the two versions regarding test =
methods or limits for handling, earthquake and office vibration?  I have =
the TR- version only.

Best regards,

David.

David Gelfand=20
Regulatory Approvals
Memotec Communications Inc.
Montreal Canada

------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C03FF5.8A0E3C20
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        charset="Windows-1252"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Group,&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Are there any differences between the two versions =
regarding=20
test methods or limits for handling, earthquake and office =
vibration?&nbsp; I=20
have the TR- version only.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Best regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>David.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>David Gelfand <BR>Regulatory Approvals<BR>Memotec=20
Communications Inc.<BR>Montreal Canada</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C03FF5.8A0E3C20--

From - Thu Nov 02 03:33:03 2000
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From: "David Gelfand" <gelf...@memotec.com>
To: <nebs@world.std.com>
References: <pine.sgi.3.95.1001011180427.19706k-100...@world.std.com>
Subject: GR-63 earthquake test labs 
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Greetings nebbers and nebbishes,

I am looking for labs that can perform GR-63 earthquake vibration tests,
preferably close to my area (Montreal, Canada).

Best regards,

David.

David Gelfand
Regulatory Approvals
Memotec Communications Inc.
Montreal Canada



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To: David Gelfand <gelf...@memotec.com>
CC: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Re: GR-63 earthquake test labs
References: <pine.sgi.3.95.1001011180427.19706k-100...@world.std.com> 
<009d01c04431$b4284c40$38581...@memotec.com>
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just drive on the roads of Montreal (pot holes galore) with your equipment
strapped on the back of car, I'm sure that will simulate GR63.

David Gelfand wrote:

> Greetings nebbers and nebbishes,
>
> I am looking for labs that can perform GR-63 earthquake vibration tests,
> preferably close to my area (Montreal, Canada).
>
> Best regards,
>
> David.
>
> David Gelfand
> Regulatory Approvals
> Memotec Communications Inc.
> Montreal Canada

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From: "Eric Petitpierre" <eric.petitpie...@pulse.com>
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Subject: Re: GR-63 earthquake test labs
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     David,
     
     I've used NTS in Acton, MA.  Thet were reasonable compared to other 
     labs.  
     Eric Petitpierre


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: GR-63 earthquake test labs
Author:  nebs@world.std.com at smtp
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date:    11/1/00 1:29 PM


Greetings nebbers and nebbishes,
     
I am looking for labs that can perform GR-63 earthquake vibration tests, 
preferably close to my area (Montreal, Canada).
     
Best regards,
     
David.
     
David Gelfand
Regulatory Approvals
Memotec Communications Inc.
Montreal Canada

From - Thu Nov 02 03:33:27 2000
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Subject: NEBS 2001 Announcement
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Posted for Chuck Graff.

November 1, 2000

RE: Verizon Communications NEBS Announcement

     In the fall of 2001, Verizon will be sponsoring our 7th annual NEBS

conference. The conference will be titled: "NEBS 2001 - Network
Challenges for
the 21st Century."  We are presently working on the dates and location.
Our new
format was well received this year, and we will continue to strive to
make
enhancements to the program. Since the Verizon Central Office (CO) tour
was such
a major success, in 2001 we are going to provide conference attendees
with a
virtual tour of a typical Verizon CO.

     In 2001, we are going to invite the Telecom industry to participate
more
fully in the conference.  A new feature to be added, will be a series of

innovative talks entitled  "The Vendors Corner". Multiple vendors will
be
invited to present their creative solutions on complex issues in
achieving NEBS
compliance.

     To facilitate this new session equipment manufacturers and test
labs are
invited to submit a paper (1 per company) to Verizon. The paper should
include
unique aspects of NEBS compliance that your Company has experienced.
This could
include historical perspectives (interesting planning and testing
stories) as
well as lessons learned and implemented in current planning efforts for
NEBS
compliance. Only those who are selected will be notified after the
papers are
submitted. The selected presenter(s) will be allotted 20 minutes during
NEBS
2001 to present their paper. All forms of media which are to be used
during the
presentation should be included as part of the submission.

     Rules for submission of papers:
     Initial Submission Date: January 15, 2001 (late papers will not be
accepted)
     Initial Submission Format: Word 7.0, Times New Roman, 12 Point.
     No confidential or proprietary information will be accepted.
     Notification Date: The selected presenters will be notified by
Email in
February 2001.
     Presentation Receipt Date: Final Presentation must be received by
Verizon
     no
                                                 later than June 1, 2001

     Final Submission Format: Power Point Ver 97 and any other media
agreed upon
     by Verizon, at time of first submission.
     All Submissions should be sent Email to: ludwig.c.gr...@verizon.com

We look forward to seeing you at "NEBS 2001 - Network Challenges for the
21st
Century".  The conference will be informative, educational, interactive,
and
most of all innovative. As more information becomes available, you will
be
notified.


Chuck Graff
Senior Member of Technical Staff
Verizon Communications



From - Thu Nov 02 03:33:38 2000
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Message-ID: <FDE24F60E85ED21187EB00A0C9D349AA18EC62@ACTONSERVER>
From: Frank Rosatone <fra...@ntscorp.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:37:05 -0800 
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David,
NTS should be your test lab.  We have seismic testing on both the East and
West coast as well as full NEBS.  Contact me and I will outline our
capabilities off-line.  For more information please visit our web pages at:
www.ntscorp.com and www.nts-ca.com

Sincerely,
Frank Rosatone
533 Main Street
Acton, MA 01720
Phone:  978-263-2933 x 222 / 800-723-2687
Fax:  978-263-5734
E-mail:  fra...@ntscorp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Gelfand [mailto:gelf...@memotec.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:30 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


Greetings nebbers and nebbishes,

I am looking for labs that can perform GR-63 earthquake vibration tests,
preferably close to my area (Montreal, Canada).

Best regards,

David.

David Gelfand
Regulatory Approvals
Memotec Communications Inc.
Montreal Canada


From - Thu Nov 02 03:33:48 2000
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<99a33c5f2dc1d311931d009027e7e822124...@excelsus01.excelsus-tech.com>
From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:15:28 -0800 
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Is this NTS a NRTL?
How does one contact them?
Don
Don Robert House, MTS
Product Certification & Regulatory Compliance
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2875 Loker Avenue East
Carlsbad, CA 92008-6626  USA
(760) 918-2552 Office/Lab
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Rosatone [mailto:fra...@ntscorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 12:37 PM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


David,
NTS should be your test lab.  We have seismic testing on both the East and
West coast as well as full NEBS.  Contact me and I will outline our
capabilities off-line.  For more information please visit our web pages at:
www.ntscorp.com and www.nts-ca.com

Sincerely,
Frank Rosatone
533 Main Street
Acton, MA 01720
Phone:  978-263-2933 x 222 / 800-723-2687
Fax:  978-263-5734
E-mail:  fra...@ntscorp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Gelfand [mailto:gelf...@memotec.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:30 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


Greetings nebbers and nebbishes,

I am looking for labs that can perform GR-63 earthquake vibration tests,
preferably close to my area (Montreal, Canada).

Best regards,

David.

David Gelfand
Regulatory Approvals
Memotec Communications Inc.
Montreal Canada

From - Thu Nov 02 03:33:54 2000
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From: "Owen, Steve" <steve.o...@compaq.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Cc: "Ramirez, Al (CustomSystems)" <ramire...@compaq.com>,
        "Lyons, Mike" <mike.ly...@compaq.com>
Subject: RE: NEBS 2001 Announcement
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:56:04 -0500 
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While we appreciate the need for Verizon to get a head start on next year's
conference, we certainly hope they can find a way to work with UL and get
the NEBS conference(s) joined back into a single event.  

Having two conferences, especially overlapping conferences as was the case
this year, puts extra strain on equipment manufacturers and others because
they have to send representatives to both conferences to make sure they have
a complete understanding of all the issues.

One of the big topics this year (at both conferences I believe) was that of
divergence.  RBOCs are diverging from NEBS and diverging from each other.
This complicates things greatly for equipment manufacturers.  Having two
NEBS conferences only serves to accelerate this trend.

We urge Verizon, UL, and Telcordia to work together to bring us back to a
unified conference in 2001.

Regards,
Mike Lyons, Steve Owen, and Al Ramirez
Compaq Computer Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon D. Curtis [mailto:j...@curtis-straus.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 3:05 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: NEBS 2001 Announcement


Posted for Chuck Graff.

November 1, 2000

RE: Verizon Communications NEBS Announcement

     In the fall of 2001, Verizon will be sponsoring our 7th annual NEBS

conference. The conference will be titled: "NEBS 2001 - Network
Challenges for
the 21st Century."  We are presently working on the dates and location.
Our new
format was well received this year, and we will continue to strive to
make
enhancements to the program. Since the Verizon Central Office (CO) tour
was such
a major success, in 2001 we are going to provide conference attendees
with a
virtual tour of a typical Verizon CO.

     In 2001, we are going to invite the Telecom industry to participate
more
fully in the conference.  A new feature to be added, will be a series of

innovative talks entitled  "The Vendors Corner". Multiple vendors will
be
invited to present their creative solutions on complex issues in
achieving NEBS
compliance.

     To facilitate this new session equipment manufacturers and test
labs are
invited to submit a paper (1 per company) to Verizon. The paper should
include
unique aspects of NEBS compliance that your Company has experienced.
This could
include historical perspectives (interesting planning and testing
stories) as
well as lessons learned and implemented in current planning efforts for
NEBS
compliance. Only those who are selected will be notified after the
papers are
submitted. The selected presenter(s) will be allotted 20 minutes during
NEBS
2001 to present their paper. All forms of media which are to be used
during the
presentation should be included as part of the submission.

     Rules for submission of papers:
     Initial Submission Date: January 15, 2001 (late papers will not be
accepted)
     Initial Submission Format: Word 7.0, Times New Roman, 12 Point.
     No confidential or proprietary information will be accepted.
     Notification Date: The selected presenters will be notified by
Email in
February 2001.
     Presentation Receipt Date: Final Presentation must be received by
Verizon
     no
                                                 later than June 1, 2001

     Final Submission Format: Power Point Ver 97 and any other media
agreed upon
     by Verizon, at time of first submission.
     All Submissions should be sent Email to: ludwig.c.gr...@verizon.com

We look forward to seeing you at "NEBS 2001 - Network Challenges for the
21st
Century".  The conference will be informative, educational, interactive,
and
most of all innovative. As more information becomes available, you will
be
notified.


Chuck Graff
Senior Member of Technical Staff
Verizon Communications


From - Thu Nov 02 03:34:09 2000
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From: Frank Rosatone <fra...@ntscorp.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
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Don,
Yes, NTS is a NRTL.  NTS stands for National Technical Systems. You can
verify that NTS is a NRTL by looking us up on the OSHA web site.
We're also A2LA, NVLAP, ISO Guide 25, CAB, etc.  Everything should be listed
on our web site for you to reference.  The NTS web pages are www.ntscorp.com
and www.nts-ca.com. We have toll free 800 numbers you can use for all our
locations.  The contact information for NTS in Massachusetts is listed
below.  You can contact me initially if you would like to review anything
about our facilities and capabilities. Additional contact names and address
are on the web site.

Sincerely,
Frank Rosatone
533 Main Street
Acton, MA 01720
Phone:  978-263-2933 x 222 / 800-723-2687
Fax:  978-263-5734
E-mail:  fra...@ntscorp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Don House [mailto:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 4:15 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


Is this NTS a NRTL?
How does one contact them?
Don
Don Robert House, MTS
Product Certification & Regulatory Compliance
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2875 Loker Avenue East
Carlsbad, CA 92008-6626  USA
(760) 918-2552 Office/Lab
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Rosatone [mailto:fra...@ntscorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 12:37 PM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


David,
NTS should be your test lab.  We have seismic testing on both the East and
West coast as well as full NEBS.  Contact me and I will outline our
capabilities off-line.  For more information please visit our web pages at:
www.ntscorp.com and www.nts-ca.com

Sincerely,
Frank Rosatone
533 Main Street
Acton, MA 01720
Phone:  978-263-2933 x 222 / 800-723-2687
Fax:  978-263-5734
E-mail:  fra...@ntscorp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Gelfand [mailto:gelf...@memotec.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:30 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


Greetings nebbers and nebbishes,

I am looking for labs that can perform GR-63 earthquake vibration tests,
preferably close to my area (Montreal, Canada).

Best regards,

David.

David Gelfand
Regulatory Approvals
Memotec Communications Inc.
Montreal Canada

From - Fri Nov 03 03:02:54 2000
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Subject: Re: GR-63 earthquake test labs
References: <pine.sgi.3.95.1001011180427.19706k-100...@world.std.com> 
<009d01c04431$b4284c40$38581...@memotec.com>
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Curtis-Straus - five and a half hours by car from Montreal according to
Mapquest.
527 Great Road
Littleton, MA 01460
USA

Contact: Jim Lewis
978-486-8880
jle...@curtis-straus.com
www.curtis-straus.com

NRTL with scope limited to certain standards including telecom equipment.
Earthquake simulator with two frame 1500#/700kg capability.

David Gelfand wrote:

> Greetings nebbers and nebbishes,
>
> I am looking for labs that can perform GR-63 earthquake vibration tests,
> preferably close to my area (Montreal, Canada).
>
> Best regards,
>
> David.
>
> David Gelfand
> Regulatory Approvals
> Memotec Communications Inc.
> Montreal Canada

--
Jon D. Curtis, P.E.

Director of Engineering
Curtis-Straus LLC

One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC,
Product Safety, and Telecom Testing.
527 Great Road
Littleton, MA 01460 USA
Voice 978-486-8880  Fax 978-486-8828
email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com
WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM


From - Fri Nov 03 03:03:33 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:43:52 -0800 
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Thank you very much Frank.  I should have read your first message more
carefully.
I appreciate your kind reply.
Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Rosatone [mailto:fra...@ntscorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 3:00 PM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


Don,
Yes, NTS is a NRTL.  NTS stands for National Technical Systems. You can
verify that NTS is a NRTL by looking us up on the OSHA web site.
We're also A2LA, NVLAP, ISO Guide 25, CAB, etc.  Everything should be listed
on our web site for you to reference.  The NTS web pages are www.ntscorp.com
and www.nts-ca.com. We have toll free 800 numbers you can use for all our
locations.  The contact information for NTS in Massachusetts is listed
below.  You can contact me initially if you would like to review anything
about our facilities and capabilities. Additional contact names and address
are on the web site.

Sincerely,
Frank Rosatone
533 Main Street
Acton, MA 01720
Phone:  978-263-2933 x 222 / 800-723-2687
Fax:  978-263-5734
E-mail:  fra...@ntscorp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Don House [mailto:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 4:15 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


Is this NTS a NRTL?
How does one contact them?
Don
Don Robert House, MTS
Product Certification & Regulatory Compliance
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2875 Loker Avenue East
Carlsbad, CA 92008-6626  USA
(760) 918-2552 Office/Lab
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Rosatone [mailto:fra...@ntscorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 12:37 PM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: RE: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


David,
NTS should be your test lab.  We have seismic testing on both the East and
West coast as well as full NEBS.  Contact me and I will outline our
capabilities off-line.  For more information please visit our web pages at:
www.ntscorp.com and www.nts-ca.com

Sincerely,
Frank Rosatone
533 Main Street
Acton, MA 01720
Phone:  978-263-2933 x 222 / 800-723-2687
Fax:  978-263-5734
E-mail:  fra...@ntscorp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Gelfand [mailto:gelf...@memotec.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:30 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: GR-63 earthquake test labs 


Greetings nebbers and nebbishes,

I am looking for labs that can perform GR-63 earthquake vibration tests,
preferably close to my area (Montreal, Canada).

Best regards,

David.

David Gelfand
Regulatory Approvals
Memotec Communications Inc.
Montreal Canada

From - Fri Nov 03 03:03:48 2000
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Group,

I wholeheartedly agree with Steve's comments and I know I'm not alone.  I'm
under the impression that most firms faced a choice this year - Baltimore
or Vegas.  For companies with compliance staffs large enough to split
coverage, sending different people to each was an option - typically more
expensive.  For smaller firms, this was not an option.  Even for those that
split attendence, you're pushing things further down the path of divergence
Steve highlighted in his message - one group of people get one set of
information, the other group gets another.  Beyond the participants, many
of the exhibitors faced the same choice - how do we staff two booths?

Working within the NEBS environment can be complicated enough with out this
further curve in the road.  Considering deltas for Verizon, AT&T, SBC,
ETSI, etc. to complete the passel of certifications and divergent
documentation needed to position telecom equipment for sale in the world
market today is challenging enough without setting things up for a he
said/she said situation by holding two separate conferences concurrently
(or two conferences at all!).

When I look at other industries and how they hold conferences, it amazes me
that we have come to this place.  The IEEE EMC Symposium brings virtually
everyone in that community together once a year for technical education and
exposure to the vendors in the field - labs, equipment vendors,
consultants, etc.  The SEMICON shows in the semiconductor industry have a
similar model with (much larger) regional shows held at different times
throughout the year.  In both of these cases, there is a consortium of
stakeholders who come together to put things on.

When contrasted with the model for the NEBS conference(s), you have one
firm (Verizon or UL) working with others in the area (joint sponsors) to
put something on.  It's typically not open to a wide variety of
participants.  The agenda is largely set by a small group of people who
have done it for some time.  From my standpoint, a significant segment
(equipment vendors) are underrepresented (or not represented at all) in the
planning and execution of the show.  And while the conferences in their
present form have been beneficial, my sense is that they fall well short of
the potential that could be achieved.

I feel it likely that both of these firms (Verizon and UL) feel losing
control of what they've developed by opening things up to a broader
consortium is not in their best interest - I hope that this is not the
case.  Even if they maintain their shows - which I hope is not the case - I
emplore them to work together to ensure they will be held on different
dates.

Beyond the conferences, there are other issues in this space that REQUIRE
that we, as an industry, get together and work things out.  The main issue
in this space is likely revisions to the standards, but I'm sure there are
others, as well.

I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on this - either on the
NEBS forum (thank you Mr. Curtis) or in e-mail to me directly.  Material
sent to me will not be shared with others unless implicit permission is
stated in the text of the message.

Regards,

Michael Garretson
Sr. Compliance Engineer
RadiSys Corporation
+1 503 615-1227

<end - Today's rant>



                                                                                
                                       
                    "Owen, Steve"                                               
                                       
                    <Steve.Owen@COMPA        To:     "'nebs@world.std.com'" 
<nebs@world.std.com>                       
                    Q.com>                   cc:     "Ramirez, Al 
(CustomSystems)" <ramire...@compaq.com>, "Lyons,     
                    Sent by:                 Mike" <mike.ly...@compaq.com>      
                                       
                    nebs-approval@wor        Subject:     RE: NEBS 2001 
Announcement                                   
                    ld.std.com                                                  
                                       
                                                                                
                                       
                                                                                
                                       
                    11/01/2000 01:56                                            
                                       
                    PM                                                          
                                       
                    Please respond to                                           
                                       
                    nebs                                                        
                                       
                                                                                
                                       
                                                                                
                                       




While we appreciate the need for Verizon to get a head start on next year's
conference, we certainly hope they can find a way to work with UL and get
the NEBS conference(s) joined back into a single event.

Having two conferences, especially overlapping conferences as was the case
this year, puts extra strain on equipment manufacturers and others because
they have to send representatives to both conferences to make sure they
have
a complete understanding of all the issues.

One of the big topics this year (at both conferences I believe) was that of
divergence.  RBOCs are diverging from NEBS and diverging from each other.
This complicates things greatly for equipment manufacturers.  Having two
NEBS conferences only serves to accelerate this trend.

We urge Verizon, UL, and Telcordia to work together to bring us back to a
unified conference in 2001.

Regards,
Mike Lyons, Steve Owen, and Al Ramirez
Compaq Computer Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon D. Curtis [mailto:j...@curtis-straus.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 3:05 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: NEBS 2001 Announcement


Posted for Chuck Graff.

November 1, 2000

RE: Verizon Communications NEBS Announcement

     In the fall of 2001, Verizon will be sponsoring our 7th annual NEBS

conference. The conference will be titled: "NEBS 2001 - Network
Challenges for
the 21st Century."  We are presently working on the dates and location.
Our new
format was well received this year, and we will continue to strive to
make
enhancements to the program. Since the Verizon Central Office (CO) tour
was such
a major success, in 2001 we are going to provide conference attendees
with a
virtual tour of a typical Verizon CO.

     In 2001, we are going to invite the Telecom industry to participate
more
fully in the conference.  A new feature to be added, will be a series of

innovative talks entitled  "The Vendors Corner". Multiple vendors will
be
invited to present their creative solutions on complex issues in
achieving NEBS
compliance.

     To facilitate this new session equipment manufacturers and test
labs are
invited to submit a paper (1 per company) to Verizon. The paper should
include
unique aspects of NEBS compliance that your Company has experienced.
This could
include historical perspectives (interesting planning and testing
stories) as
well as lessons learned and implemented in current planning efforts for
NEBS
compliance. Only those who are selected will be notified after the
papers are
submitted. The selected presenter(s) will be allotted 20 minutes during
NEBS
2001 to present their paper. All forms of media which are to be used
during the
presentation should be included as part of the submission.

     Rules for submission of papers:
     Initial Submission Date: January 15, 2001 (late papers will not be
accepted)
     Initial Submission Format: Word 7.0, Times New Roman, 12 Point.
     No confidential or proprietary information will be accepted.
     Notification Date: The selected presenters will be notified by
Email in
February 2001.
     Presentation Receipt Date: Final Presentation must be received by
Verizon
     no
                                                 later than June 1, 2001

     Final Submission Format: Power Point Ver 97 and any other media
agreed upon
     by Verizon, at time of first submission.
     All Submissions should be sent Email to: ludwig.c.gr...@verizon.com

We look forward to seeing you at "NEBS 2001 - Network Challenges for the
21st
Century".  The conference will be informative, educational, interactive,
and
most of all innovative. As more information becomes available, you will
be
notified.


Chuck Graff
Senior Member of Technical Staff
Verizon Communications





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From: David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: Bipolar NEBS conferences
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Hey Michael,
Don't forget why we are where we are...his name is Mr. Graff.  He created
the divergence of the shows because he didn't like the way UL was running
the program.  This will probably not change any time soon, much like the
requirement to have IR video and a flammability database.  The divergence is
going to continue with the RBOC's as well...I think in the next couple of
years you will see SBC switch over to ANSI based specifications, which is
something Larry Wong is leaning toward.  It is to difficult to get Telcordia
to re-examine outdated or misguided requirements, leading many test labs to
do their own thing (Altitude is a prime example).  I tend to look at it as
job security for the time being...

See ya in the halls,
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
(503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com


-----Original Message-----
From: michael.garret...@radisys.com
[mailto:michael.garret...@radisys.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 11:27 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Bipolar NEBS conferences



Group,

I wholeheartedly agree with Steve's comments and I know I'm not alone.  I'm
under the impression that most firms faced a choice this year - Baltimore
or Vegas.  For companies with compliance staffs large enough to split
coverage, sending different people to each was an option - typically more
expensive.  For smaller firms, this was not an option.  Even for those that
split attendence, you're pushing things further down the path of divergence
Steve highlighted in his message - one group of people get one set of
information, the other group gets another.  Beyond the participants, many
of the exhibitors faced the same choice - how do we staff two booths?

Working within the NEBS environment can be complicated enough with out this
further curve in the road.  Considering deltas for Verizon, AT&T, SBC,
ETSI, etc. to complete the passel of certifications and divergent
documentation needed to position telecom equipment for sale in the world
market today is challenging enough without setting things up for a he
said/she said situation by holding two separate conferences concurrently
(or two conferences at all!).

When I look at other industries and how they hold conferences, it amazes me
that we have come to this place.  The IEEE EMC Symposium brings virtually
everyone in that community together once a year for technical education and
exposure to the vendors in the field - labs, equipment vendors,
consultants, etc.  The SEMICON shows in the semiconductor industry have a
similar model with (much larger) regional shows held at different times
throughout the year.  In both of these cases, there is a consortium of
stakeholders who come together to put things on.

When contrasted with the model for the NEBS conference(s), you have one
firm (Verizon or UL) working with others in the area (joint sponsors) to
put something on.  It's typically not open to a wide variety of
participants.  The agenda is largely set by a small group of people who
have done it for some time.  From my standpoint, a significant segment
(equipment vendors) are underrepresented (or not represented at all) in the
planning and execution of the show.  And while the conferences in their
present form have been beneficial, my sense is that they fall well short of
the potential that could be achieved.

I feel it likely that both of these firms (Verizon and UL) feel losing
control of what they've developed by opening things up to a broader
consortium is not in their best interest - I hope that this is not the
case.  Even if they maintain their shows - which I hope is not the case - I
emplore them to work together to ensure they will be held on different
dates.

Beyond the conferences, there are other issues in this space that REQUIRE
that we, as an industry, get together and work things out.  The main issue
in this space is likely revisions to the standards, but I'm sure there are
others, as well.

I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on this - either on the
NEBS forum (thank you Mr. Curtis) or in e-mail to me directly.  Material
sent to me will not be shared with others unless implicit permission is
stated in the text of the message.

Regards,

Michael Garretson
Sr. Compliance Engineer
RadiSys Corporation
+1 503 615-1227

<end - Today's rant>



 

                    "Owen, Steve"

                    <Steve.Owen@COMPA        To:     "'nebs@world.std.com'"
<nebs@world.std.com>                       
                    Q.com>                   cc:     "Ramirez, Al
(CustomSystems)" <ramire...@compaq.com>, "Lyons,     
                    Sent by:                 Mike" <mike.ly...@compaq.com>

                    nebs-approval@wor        Subject:     RE: NEBS 2001
Announcement                                   
                    ld.std.com

 

 

                    11/01/2000 01:56

                    PM

                    Please respond to

                    nebs

 

 





While we appreciate the need for Verizon to get a head start on next year's
conference, we certainly hope they can find a way to work with UL and get
the NEBS conference(s) joined back into a single event.

Having two conferences, especially overlapping conferences as was the case
this year, puts extra strain on equipment manufacturers and others because
they have to send representatives to both conferences to make sure they
have
a complete understanding of all the issues.

One of the big topics this year (at both conferences I believe) was that of
divergence.  RBOCs are diverging from NEBS and diverging from each other.
This complicates things greatly for equipment manufacturers.  Having two
NEBS conferences only serves to accelerate this trend.

We urge Verizon, UL, and Telcordia to work together to bring us back to a
unified conference in 2001.

Regards,
Mike Lyons, Steve Owen, and Al Ramirez
Compaq Computer Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon D. Curtis [mailto:j...@curtis-straus.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 3:05 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: NEBS 2001 Announcement


Posted for Chuck Graff.

November 1, 2000

RE: Verizon Communications NEBS Announcement

     In the fall of 2001, Verizon will be sponsoring our 7th annual NEBS

conference. The conference will be titled: "NEBS 2001 - Network
Challenges for
the 21st Century."  We are presently working on the dates and location.
Our new
format was well received this year, and we will continue to strive to
make
enhancements to the program. Since the Verizon Central Office (CO) tour
was such
a major success, in 2001 we are going to provide conference attendees
with a
virtual tour of a typical Verizon CO.

     In 2001, we are going to invite the Telecom industry to participate
more
fully in the conference.  A new feature to be added, will be a series of

innovative talks entitled  "The Vendors Corner". Multiple vendors will
be
invited to present their creative solutions on complex issues in
achieving NEBS
compliance.

     To facilitate this new session equipment manufacturers and test
labs are
invited to submit a paper (1 per company) to Verizon. The paper should
include
unique aspects of NEBS compliance that your Company has experienced.
This could
include historical perspectives (interesting planning and testing
stories) as
well as lessons learned and implemented in current planning efforts for
NEBS
compliance. Only those who are selected will be notified after the
papers are
submitted. The selected presenter(s) will be allotted 20 minutes during
NEBS
2001 to present their paper. All forms of media which are to be used
during the
presentation should be included as part of the submission.

     Rules for submission of papers:
     Initial Submission Date: January 15, 2001 (late papers will not be
accepted)
     Initial Submission Format: Word 7.0, Times New Roman, 12 Point.
     No confidential or proprietary information will be accepted.
     Notification Date: The selected presenters will be notified by
Email in
February 2001.
     Presentation Receipt Date: Final Presentation must be received by
Verizon
     no
                                                 later than June 1, 2001

     Final Submission Format: Power Point Ver 97 and any other media
agreed upon
     by Verizon, at time of first submission.
     All Submissions should be sent Email to: ludwig.c.gr...@verizon.com

We look forward to seeing you at "NEBS 2001 - Network Challenges for the
21st
Century".  The conference will be informative, educational, interactive,
and
most of all innovative. As more information becomes available, you will
be
notified.


Chuck Graff
Senior Member of Technical Staff
Verizon Communications




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Anyone,

Please help me remove myself from this list.  I have tried emailing 
majordomo, moderator, etc. and CANNOT get it to quit.  I don't do NEBS 
anymore for the RBOCS, and don't want to waist the bandwidth.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

From - Sat Dec 16 03:58:39 2000
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From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
To: "'NEBS Newsgroup'" <NEBS@world.std.com>, "'EMC PSTC'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>
Subject: Thermocouple issues
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        I am in the process of performing a thermal evaluation and am using
thermocouples to measure surface temperatures of IC's, etc.  I'm finding
that the thermocouple tape that I'm using tends to experience a degradati=
on
of the adhesive as the temperatures increase (in the 80-100=B0C range) ca=
using
the thermocouples to separate from the surfaces.  I'd appreciate any advi=
ce
that could point to a higher performing tape/adhesive for such an
application.  Some of the IC's are quite small which doesn't leave much
surface area for adhesion and I am using as many as 40 thermocouples per
card.

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>>=20

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com


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From: "Andrews, Kurt" <kandr...@tracewell.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com, "'EMC PSTC'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: Thermocouple issues
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Joe,

You might try contacting Educated Design & Development. They supply many
different product safety test items to various manufacturers and NRTLs. T=
hey
have three different kinds of thermocouple tape: Glass Cloth, Kapton, and
Teflon. I do know that Kapton is a high temperature tape that I have used=
 in
applications up to 600=B0F (although not for thermocouples). They also se=
ll a
thermocouple paste. They should be able to suggest what would be appropri=
ate
for your application. Their contact information is below:

Educated Design & Development
2200 Gateway Centre Blvd.
Suite 215
Morrisville, NC 27560
Ph: 919-469-9434
Fax: 919-469-5743
www.productsafet.com/prodsafety
email: prodsaf...@aol.com

Hope you find what you need,

Kurt Andrews
Compliance Engineer

Tracewell Systems, Inc.
567 Enterprise Drive
Westerville, Ohio 43081
voice:      614.846.6175
toll free:  800.848.4525
fax:         614.846.7791

http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ <http://www.tracewellsystems.com/>=20


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Joe Finlayson [SMTP:jfinlay...@telica.com]
        Sent:   Friday, December 15, 2000 2:53 PM
        To:     'NEBS Newsgroup'; 'EMC PSTC'
        Subject:        Thermocouple issues


                I am in the process of performing a thermal evaluation and
am using
        thermocouples to measure surface temperatures of IC's, etc.  I'm
finding
        that the thermocouple tape that I'm using tends to experience a
degradation
        of the adhesive as the temperatures increase (in the 80-100=B0C range)
causing
        the thermocouples to separate from the surfaces.  I'd appreciate any
advice
        that could point to a higher performing tape/adhesive for such an
        application.  Some of the IC's are quite small which doesn't leave
much
        surface area for adhesion and I am using as many as 40 thermocouples
per
        card.

        Thx,


        Joe

        *********************************
         <<...>>=20

        Joe Finlayson
        Manager, Compliance Engineering
        Telica, Inc.
        734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
        Marlboro, MA 01752
        Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
        Fax:    (508) 480-0922
        Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
        Web:    www.telica.com

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From: Constantin Bolintineanu <bolin...@dscltd.com>
To: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>,
        "'NEBS Newsgroup'"
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Subject: RE: Thermocouple issues
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Dear Joe,

I am using for this purpose the LOCTITE 416 or 4204 INSTANT ADHESIVE
(Loctite part # 41650 for 416) along with the correspondent ACCELERATOR
LOCTITE 7452.(part # 18637). The thermocouple will be fixed to the locati=
on
in less  than 10 seconds.
A very small quantity of adhesive is used,(it does not interfere with the
measured values) and I found that it is the easiest was to keep in place =
the
thermocouples. ( I am using thermocouples AWG30 and this adhesive provide=
s a
good contact for temperature up to 120 degrees Celsius). I did not have
problems with the thermocouples for at least 48 hours.
It is an insulating material as well.

I hope it helps. =20


Respectfully yours,
Constantin

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD.
3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2
CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA
e-mail: bolin...@dscltd.com
telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568
www.dscgrp.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:53 PM
To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'; 'EMC PSTC'
Subject: Thermocouple issues




        I am in the process of performing a thermal evaluation and am using
thermocouples to measure surface temperatures of IC's, etc.  I'm finding
that the thermocouple tape that I'm using tends to experience a degradati=
on
of the adhesive as the temperatures increase (in the 80-100=B0C range) ca=
using
the thermocouples to separate from the surfaces.  I'd appreciate any advi=
ce
that could point to a higher performing tape/adhesive for such an
application.  Some of the IC's are quite small which doesn't leave much
surface area for adhesion and I am using as many as 40 thermocouples per
card.

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>>=20

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com


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From - Sat Dec 16 03:58:55 2000
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From: "Merrill Macmillan" <m...@nortelnetworks.com>
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Subject: RE: Thermocouple issues
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Try using a product from Omega called TAP. I think it stands for =
thermal
adhesive pads. There are about 100 per roll and each is about 1cm x =
2cm.
This product was designed for this specific purpose.=20

Merrill

Merrill MacMillan
m...@nortelnetworks.com=20
Nortel Networks
Kanata, Ontario
Canada  =20
tel  613 270-5782
fax 613 591-2035


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:53 PM
To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'; 'EMC PSTC'
Subject: Thermocouple issues



        I am in the process of performing a thermal evaluation and am using
thermocouples to measure surface temperatures of IC's, etc.  I'm =
finding
that the thermocouple tape that I'm using tends to experience a =
degradation
of the adhesive as the temperatures increase (in the 80-100=B0C range) =
causing
the thermocouples to separate from the surfaces.  I'd appreciate any =
advice
that could point to a higher performing tape/adhesive for such an
application.  Some of the IC's are quite small which doesn't leave much
surface area for adhesion and I am using as many as 40 thermocouples =
per
card.

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>>=20

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com


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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2652.35">
<TITLE>RE: Thermocouple issues</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Try using a product from Omega called TAP. I think it =
stands for thermal adhesive pads. There are about 100 per roll and each =
is about 1cm x 2cm. This product was designed for this specific =
purpose. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Merrill</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Merrill MacMillan</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>m...@nortelnetworks.com </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Nortel Networks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Kanata, Ontario</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Canada&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>tel&nbsp; 613 270-5782</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>fax 613 591-2035</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Joe Finlayson [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com";>mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com</A>]<=
/FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:53 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'; 'EMC PSTC'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Thermocouple issues</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2>I am in =
the process of performing a thermal evaluation and am using</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>thermocouples to measure surface temperatures of =
IC's, etc.&nbsp; I'm finding</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>that the thermocouple tape that I'm using tends to =
experience a degradation</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>of the adhesive as the temperatures increase (in the =
80-100=B0C range) causing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the thermocouples to separate from the =
surfaces.&nbsp; I'd appreciate any advice</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>that could point to a higher performing =
tape/adhesive for such an</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>application.&nbsp; Some of the IC's are quite small =
which doesn't leave much</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>surface area for adhesion and I am using as many as =
40 thermocouples per</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>card.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thx,</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Joe</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>*********************************</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&lt;&lt;...&gt;&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Joe Finlayson</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Manager, Compliance Engineering</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Telica, Inc.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Marlboro, MA 01752</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Tel:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (508) 480-0909 x212</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (508) 480-0922</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Email:&nbsp; jfinlay...@telica.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Web:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; www.telica.com</FONT>
</P>

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From - Sat Dec 16 03:58:58 2000
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Joe,
UL uses super glue to attach the thermocouple.
Dan Kinney
Horner APG

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Finlayson [SMTP:jfinlay...@telica.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:53 PM
> To:   'NEBS Newsgroup'; 'EMC PSTC'
> Subject:      Thermocouple issues
>=20
>=20
>=20
>       I am in the process of performing a thermal evaluation and am using
> thermocouples to measure surface temperatures of IC's, etc.  I'm findin=
g
> that the thermocouple tape that I'm using tends to experience a
> degradation
> of the adhesive as the temperatures increase (in the 80-100=B0C range)
> causing
> the thermocouples to separate from the surfaces.  I'd appreciate any
> advice
> that could point to a higher performing tape/adhesive for such an
> application.  Some of the IC's are quite small which doesn't leave much
> surface area for adhesion and I am using as many as 40 thermocouples pe=
r
> card.
>=20
> Thx,
>=20
>=20
> Joe
>=20
> *********************************
>  <<...>>=20
>=20
> Joe Finlayson
> Manager, Compliance Engineering
> Telica, Inc.
> 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> Marlboro, MA 01752
> Tel:  (508) 480-0909 x212
> Fax:  (508) 480-0922
> Email:        jfinlay...@telica.com
> Web:  www.telica.com
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>=20
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>      majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>      unsubscribe emc-pstc
>=20
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>      Jim Bacher:              jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com
>      Michael Garretson:        pstc_ad...@garretson.org
>=20
> For policy questions, send mail to:
>      Richard Nute:           ri...@ieee.org
>=20

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From - Wed Dec 20 02:37:30 2000
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Hi Joe,

We use Loctite 495 or 416 with the 712 accelerator (we have a T/C welder =
in=20
case they break upon removal). We also use an IR probe which connects to =
the=20
multimeter for those hard to get locations.

Ed


>From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
>Reply-To: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
>To: "'NEBS Newsgroup'" <NEBS@world.std.com>, "'EMC PSTC'"=20
><emc-p...@ieee.org>
>Subject: Thermocouple issues
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:52:45 -0500
>
>
>
>       I am in the process of performing a thermal evaluation and am using
>thermocouples to measure surface temperatures of IC's, etc.  I'm finding
>that the thermocouple tape that I'm using tends to experience a degradat=
ion
>of the adhesive as the temperatures increase (in the 80-100=B0C range)=20
>causing
>the thermocouples to separate from the surfaces.  I'd appreciate any adv=
ice
>that could point to a higher performing tape/adhesive for such an
>application.  Some of the IC's are quite small which doesn't leave much
>surface area for adhesion and I am using as many as 40 thermocouples per
>card.
>
>Thx,
>
>
>Joe
>
>*********************************
>  <<...>>
>
>Joe Finlayson
>Manager, Compliance Engineering
>Telica, Inc.
>734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
>Marlboro, MA 01752
>Tel:   (508) 480-0909 x212
>Fax:   (508) 480-0922
>Email: jfinlay...@telica.com
>Web:   www.telica.com
>
>
>-------------------------------------------
>This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
>Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
>To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
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>

_________________________________________________________________
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From - Wed Dec 20 02:38:33 2000
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Hi Group,


Is anyone familiar with CEPT T/TR02-03 ? It is supposed to be equivalent to
Bellcore Specification NEBS TR-NWT-000063 (GR-63 Core)
Of course this is a customer request issue.

Thanks in advance & Happy Holidays !!!!!

Jeffrey Collins 
Engineering Manager / Lead Engineer
EMC/ NEBS/ Product Safety/ EHS
> CIENA  Core Switching Division
10480 Ridgeview Court, Cupertino, CA. 95014
(408) 366-4806, Fax (408) 366-4866
jcoll...@ciena.com
http://www.ciena.com


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From - Wed Dec 20 02:39:48 2000
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From: "Schultz, Charlie" <charlie.schu...@sciatl.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: Alarm-type questions
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Hello group-
Can anyone recommend Bellcore/Telcordia document(s) that contain
requirements relative to:
1. How alarms are indicated in hardware (i.e. relay states)
2. Elapsed time between an alarm condition and an alarm indication.

This is in regards to optical transport equipment.

Regards,
Charlie





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<TITLE>Alarm-type questions</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hello group-</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Can anyone recommend =
Bellcore/Telcordia document(s) that contain requirements relative =
to:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1. How alarms are indicated in =
hardware (i.e. relay states)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2. Elapsed time between an alarm =
condition and an alarm indication.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">This is in regards to optical =
transport equipment.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Charlie</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - - - - - - -&nbsp; Appended by =
Scientific-Atlanta, Inc.&nbsp; - - - - - - -&nbsp;=20
<BR>This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is =
confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. =
The information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person =
responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the =
intended recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, =
print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If =
you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender =
immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer. </P>
<BR>

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From - Wed Dec 20 02:40:47 2000
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From: David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: Alarm-type questions
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Hi Charlie,
The following should have what you need, in order of relevance:
GR-474-Core  Network Maintenance: Alarm and Control for Network Elements
GR-253-Core  Synchronous Optical Network (SONET) Transport Systems:Common
Generic Criteria
GR-499-Core  Transport Systems Generic Requirements (TSGR):Common
Requirements
GR-820-Core  Generic Digital Transmission Surveillance
 
Regards,
Dave Spencer
Oresis Communications
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Schultz, Charlie [mailto:charlie.schu...@sciatl.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:38 AM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: Alarm-type questions



Hello group- 
Can anyone recommend Bellcore/Telcordia document(s) that contain
requirements relative to: 
1. How alarms are indicated in hardware (i.e. relay states) 
2. Elapsed time between an alarm condition and an alarm indication. 

This is in regards to optical transport equipment. 

Regards, 
Charlie 





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copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received
this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
and delete it from your computer. 


From - Thu Sep 14 05:32:04 2000
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From: Michael Prussel <michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: NEBS redundancy requirements
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Greetings all - 

A question has come up regarding the need for dual-redundant power supplies
residing within a Compact PCI system chassis. One of our people claims this
feature ties to NEBS compliance. 

Is there a specific NEBS requirement(s) that would dictate dual redundant
power supplies? If so, where can I find it?

Would a single high-MTBF power supply be an alternative way to meet such a
requirement?

Thanks very much for your help. 

Mike Prussel 
Regulatory Engineer
Spike Broadband Systems
Nashua, NH
michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net

From - Mon Aug 07 04:33:11 2000
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From: Doug <dmck...@gte.net>
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I think I already know the answer to this, 
but I have to ask. 

A product has a mix of printed circuit boards. 
Some are made by the mfr, some are off the 
shelf boards.  I suppose you could buy them 
at a place like Fry's (big electronic store 
out here). Not sure about that. 

To declare GR-78 compliance, would the mfr of 
said product require the mfrs of the boards 
they buy from vendors be compliant with GR-78 
as well? 

Example - Say your company makes a PC that will go 
into a CO.  The only thing your company actually 
makes of the product is the box, power supplies, 
and the motherboard. The product will NOT connect 
directly to any telephone lines. It will connect 
to the telephone line through a modem once installed 
in the CO. 

It's a plug and play device that accepts any type 
of PCI interface card you need.  You can buy these 
interface cards almost anywhere.  

* Are you obligated to require ANY and ALL 
  interface cards to be used in your product 
  to be GR-78 compliant? 

- Doug

From - Mon Aug 07 04:33:40 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
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Subject: RE: GR-78 question ... 
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If I recall correctly there is no such thing as GR-78 Recognition.  So that
means that your equipment would have to be tested with the off the shelf
boards installed for the final product to meet the requirements.

Don
Don Robert House, MTS
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
(760) 918-2552 Office
(760) 476-1519 FAX
(760) 432-3397 Pager
New e-mail address: dho...@excelsus-tech.com
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug [mailto:dmck...@gte.net]
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 1:42 PM
To: Nebs Discussion Group
Subject: GR-78 question ... 


I think I already know the answer to this, 
but I have to ask. 

A product has a mix of printed circuit boards. 
Some are made by the mfr, some are off the 
shelf boards.  I suppose you could buy them 
at a place like Fry's (big electronic store 
out here). Not sure about that. 

To declare GR-78 compliance, would the mfr of 
said product require the mfrs of the boards 
they buy from vendors be compliant with GR-78 
as well? 

Example - Say your company makes a PC that will go 
into a CO.  The only thing your company actually 
makes of the product is the box, power supplies, 
and the motherboard. The product will NOT connect 
directly to any telephone lines. It will connect 
to the telephone line through a modem once installed 
in the CO. 

It's a plug and play device that accepts any type 
of PCI interface card you need.  You can buy these 
interface cards almost anywhere.  

* Are you obligated to require ANY and ALL 
  interface cards to be used in your product 
  to be GR-78 compliant? 

- Doug

From - Mon Aug 07 19:52:50 2000
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From: "Gary Raper" <gary.ra...@tekelec.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
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Subject: Re: GR-78 question ...
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Doug,
GR-78-CORE covers the design and manufacture of telecom products.  To be
compliant with the 880+ requirements in the standard,  the design first of all
must meet the 200+ design requirements for cables, PCB layout, materials,
components, connectors, etc.  The selection of 94 V-1 or better components is a
major task alone.  Obviously if you buy an off the shelf product that does not
claim to comply with GR-78, it will not meet the requirements within its design
or selection of materials.  Also, the manufacture of the assemblies involves a
few hundred requirements.  The selection of solders, fluxes, cleaning processes,
thermal controls in all processes, storage and handling of materials, ESD
practices, repair practices, and we have only skimmed the surface.  I've audited
sites that claim to meet GR-78 that fail to meet major requirements, so an off
the shelf will be even more of a compliance problem.  The customer has the final
say in deciding if they want your product because it is invaluable even with its
missed marks.  Being upfront about the makeup of your product is the best
approach along with a plan to conform in the future.

Gary R.
Tekelec
Hardware Compliance Eng.





Doug <dmck...@gte.net> on 08/04/2000 04:42:08 PM

Please respond to nebs@world.std.com

To:   Nebs Discussion Group <nebs@world.std.com>
cc:    (bcc: Gary Raper/Raleigh/TEKELEC)
Subject:  GR-78 question ...




I think I already know the answer to this,
but I have to ask.

A product has a mix of printed circuit boards.
Some are made by the mfr, some are off the
shelf boards.  I suppose you could buy them
at a place like Fry's (big electronic store
out here). Not sure about that.

To declare GR-78 compliance, would the mfr of
said product require the mfrs of the boards
they buy from vendors be compliant with GR-78
as well?

Example - Say your company makes a PC that will go
into a CO.  The only thing your company actually
makes of the product is the box, power supplies,
and the motherboard. The product will NOT connect
directly to any telephone lines. It will connect
to the telephone line through a modem once installed
in the CO.

It's a plug and play device that accepts any type
of PCI interface card you need.  You can buy these
interface cards almost anywhere.

* Are you obligated to require ANY and ALL
  interface cards to be used in your product
  to be GR-78 compliant?

- Doug







From - Tue Aug 08 04:42:21 2000
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Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 19:31:45 -0700
From: Nazeeh Shaheen <nshah...@occamnetworks.com>
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To: "t...@world.std.com" <t...@world.std.com>,
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Subject: Rack Mechanical Dimensions
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I am searching for the mechanical dimensions of both 19" and 23" telco racks. 
Can someone please confirm that ANSI/EIA/310-D-92 is the proper spec.

Thanks,
------
Occam Networks
Nazeeh Shaheen, Approvals Manager
4183 State Street
Santa Barbara, CA 93110

(805) 692-6237 Phone
(805) 692-9546 Fax

From - Thu Aug 10 06:10:55 2000
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Hi All,
We have found ourselves in a bit of a quandary over grounding the shields of
DS3 connections on our switch.  I have the following opinions to date:

1.  The DS3 is grounded at the transmitter, always.  The Receiver may be
grounded or isolated.  Selectable is an added feature.

2.  Because it is Network Interface (NI) to NI, intra-building, they all get
grounded to one another, i.e. bulkhead grounding to frame ground.

ANSI T1.102, T1.404, and GR-499 do not give a great deal of guidance.  The
most applicable is in T1.404, where it says:

The shields of the connecting coaxial cables meeting at the NI through the
TNC connectors (see 8.2) MAY interconnect the network and CI equipment
grounds. Because this is not suitable as the common ground reference, it is
necessary that the network and CI equipment be interconnected following
appropriate installation
procedures consistent with existing safety standards to form the common
ground reference. High-frequency pulse isolation transformers may be
required at the CI to prevent excessive ground currents in the shields of
the connecting cables as shown in figure 5.

Figure 5 shows a connection with isolation transformers installed.

If the ground loops are not too high (could be an amp or more between frames
depending where they are in the building if running a radial ground) I
suppose it is not a safety issue.  However, when you have multiple DS3's
connecting between different frames to your common ground feeder, it seems
like it could get ugly as you reinvent the grounding topology.  If there is
already a mesh network in the building, then I suppose it makes no
difference at all.

Please advise if you know of any standards, RBOC
guidelines/practices/directives, or common practices.   This must be a pet
issue for someone out there with an opinion.

Thanks in advance for your insight!
Best Regards,
Dave Spencer     Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
* dspen...@oresis.com  * http://www.oresis.com
* (503) 466-6289  * (503) 533-8233  

From - Thu Aug 10 06:11:02 2000
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From: Bandele Adepoju <badep...@jetstream.com>
To: "'David Spencer'" <dspen...@oresis.com>
Cc: "TREG (E-mail)" <t...@world.std.com>,
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Subject: RE: DS3 Grounding for NI to NI
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We ground our DS3 connectors at both Xmtr and Rcvr.
This is mainly to overcome EMC problems - Emissions/ESD.

Regards,

Bandele 
Jetstream Communications, Inc.
badep...@jetstream.com


-----Original Message-----
From: David Spencer [mailto:dspen...@oresis.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 4:51 PM
To: Nebs List Serve (E-mail); TREG (E-mail)
Subject: DS3 Grounding for NI to NI


Hi All,
We have found ourselves in a bit of a quandary over grounding the shields of
DS3 connections on our switch.  I have the following opinions to date:

1.  The DS3 is grounded at the transmitter, always.  The Receiver may be
grounded or isolated.  Selectable is an added feature.

2.  Because it is Network Interface (NI) to NI, intra-building, they all get
grounded to one another, i.e. bulkhead grounding to frame ground.

ANSI T1.102, T1.404, and GR-499 do not give a great deal of guidance.  The
most applicable is in T1.404, where it says:

The shields of the connecting coaxial cables meeting at the NI through the
TNC connectors (see 8.2) MAY interconnect the network and CI equipment
grounds. Because this is not suitable as the common ground reference, it is
necessary that the network and CI equipment be interconnected following
appropriate installation
procedures consistent with existing safety standards to form the common
ground reference. High-frequency pulse isolation transformers may be
required at the CI to prevent excessive ground currents in the shields of
the connecting cables as shown in figure 5.

Figure 5 shows a connection with isolation transformers installed.

If the ground loops are not too high (could be an amp or more between frames
depending where they are in the building if running a radial ground) I
suppose it is not a safety issue.  However, when you have multiple DS3's
connecting between different frames to your common ground feeder, it seems
like it could get ugly as you reinvent the grounding topology.  If there is
already a mesh network in the building, then I suppose it makes no
difference at all.

Please advise if you know of any standards, RBOC
guidelines/practices/directives, or common practices.   This must be a pet
issue for someone out there with an opinion.

Thanks in advance for your insight!
Best Regards,
Dave Spencer     Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
* dspen...@oresis.com  * http://www.oresis.com
* (503) 466-6289  * (503) 533-8233  

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From: Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>
To: "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
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Subject: HALT/HASS Testing
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We make a Metro DWDM product (all fiber) and one of our potential customers
mentioned HALT/HASS environmental testing. Has anyone else had to go through
this for similar products?

Thanks,

Dave Wilson
Alidian Networks Inc.

From - Sat Sep 09 06:47:14 2000
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HALT.  Highly Accelerated Stress Testing.  This can go by other names.  This
is where you stress the product (prototype stage typically) using a number
of criteria, the most common being temperature extremes and vibration.  You
test first to determine the operational limits of the EUT (fails to operate
but recovers when the stresses are removed), then continue until you reach
the destruct limits (unit is damaged).  The test is of short duration
(couple days) and is intended to simulate life expectancy.  This can be
shown using mathematical analysis with the Arrhenius equation among others.
There has also been a high degree of correlation experimentally.  The
failures seen in HALT are usually what you see in the field.  The idea is to
find the weak points in your product, remedy them, such as using a higher
rated part, then re-test to find the new limits.  The goal is to add lots of
margin concerning the reliability of your product.  These tests must be done
in specially designed chambers (called HALT chambers by most).  They start
around $130K.  If you don't have the money to buy one there several labs
that will gladly do the tests.  One such lab is Qualmark.  Others are
popping up all the time.

HASS.  Highly accelerated Stress Screening.  This is a production test
designed to find manufacturing defects, engineering changes, etc., that may
affect the reliability of the product.  You need some kind of environmental
or HALT chamber, or you can send all your units to a lab, but that gets
expensive real fast.  The test is similar to HALT but you don't go to the
destruct limits, just high enough to stress the unit and find defects.  The
limits are usually established during HALT testing

Many books are available on the above subject, most notably Accelerated
Reliability Engineering.  HALT & Hass by Greg K. Hobbs distributed by Wiley.

Good Luck
Darrell Locke
Advanced Input Devices
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Wilson [mailto:dwil...@alidian.com]
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:34 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: HALT/HASS Testing



We make a Metro DWDM product (all fiber) and one of our potential customers
mentioned HALT/HASS environmental testing. Has anyone else had to go through
this for similar products?

Thanks,

Dave Wilson
Alidian Networks Inc.

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From - Sat Sep 09 06:47:35 2000
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Hi Darrell,

By coincidence, I'm reading the book you recommended. I found your descriptions 
consistent with the book. Please allow me to insert some supplements below.

Barry Ma
Anritsu Company


On Fri, 08 September 2000, Darrell Locke wrote: 
> 
> HALT.  Highly Accelerated Stress Testing.  This can go by other names.  This
> is where you stress the product (prototype stage typically) using a number
> of criteria, the most common being temperature extremes and vibration.  

... many HALT results have shown that all-axis vibration far surpass the 
effectiveness of thermal cycling for the broad spectrum of faults found in many 
types of equipment ...
      -(quoted from p. 13 of the book)

> You test first to determine the operational limits of the EUT (fails to 
> operate
> but recovers when the stresses are removed), then continue until you reach
> the destruct limits (unit is damaged).  The test is of short duration
> (couple days) and is intended to simulate life expectancy.  This can be
> shown using mathematical analysis with the Arrhenius equation among others.

In the process of finding upper and lower operational and destruct limits and 
pushing them to ... ... a very robust product ... will be generated. ... The 
product is made better, but how much better is not known, at least not by the 
MALT methods. However, when results of the MTBF based on field failure rates 
(the only meaningful MTBF) become known, it will probably be far higher than 
ever...
      - (quoted from p. 72 of the book)


> There has also been a high degree of correlation experimentally.  The
> failures seen in HALT are usually what you see in the field.  The idea is to
> find the weak points in your product, remedy them, such as using a higher
> rated part, then re-test to find the new limits.  The goal is to add lots of
> margin concerning the reliability of your product.  These tests must be done
> in specially designed chambers (called HALT chambers by most).  They start
> around $130K.  If you don't have the money to buy one there several labs
> that will gladly do the tests.  One such lab is Qualmark.  Others are
> popping up all the time.
> 
> HASS.  Highly accelerated Stress Screening.  This is a production test
> designed to find manufacturing defects, engineering changes, etc., that may
> affect the reliability of the product.  You need some kind of environmental
> or HALT chamber, or you can send all your units to a lab, but that gets
> expensive real fast.  The test is similar to HALT but you don't go to the
> destruct limits, just high enough to stress the unit and find defects.  The
> limits are usually established during HALT testing
> 
> Many books are available on the above subject, most notably Accelerated
> Reliability Engineering.  HALT & Hass by Greg K. Hobbs distributed by Wiley.
> 
> Good Luck
> Darrell Locke
> Advanced Input Devices

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Wilson [mailto:dwil...@alidian.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:34 AM
> To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'nebs@world.std.com'
> Subject: HALT/HASS Testing
> 
> We make a Metro DWDM product (all fiber) and one of our potential customers
> mentioned HALT/HASS environmental testing. Has anyone else had to go through
> this for similar products?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave Wilson
> Alidian Networks Inc.
> 


Thanks.
Best Regards,
Barry Ma    <b...@anritsu.com>
ANRITSU    www.anritsu.com
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
Tel. 408-778-2000 x 4465
_______________________________________________________________________

Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! 
http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html

_______________________________________________________________________


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Sorry, I was pointed out a typo in the email I sent 2 hrs ago this afternoon. 

MALT should be corrected to HALT in the second insertion with "The product is 
made better, but how much better is not known, at least not by the MALT 
methods."

   -BM

Thanks.
Best Regards,
Barry Ma    <b...@anritsu.com>
ANRITSU    www.anritsu.com
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
Tel. 408-778-2000 x 4465
_______________________________________________________________________

Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! 
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There are test labs in Michigan that can help you...Frank

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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Meunier=2C_=C9ric=22?= <emeun...@teknor.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: HALT/HASS Testing
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:24:14 -0400
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You may contact Paul A. Lombardi at QualMark Corporation
plomba...@qualmark.com <mailto:plomba...@qualmark.com>  tel. 508-229-8437. I
did not had a product tested at this lab but, about a year ago, Mr. Lombardi
gave us a very good presentation on the subject and they had a free Video
tape.

Eric



        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Dave Wilson [SMTP:dwil...@alidian.com]
        Sent:   Friday, September 08, 2000 1:34 PM
        To:     'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'nebs@world.std.com'
        Subject:        HALT/HASS Testing

        We make a Metro DWDM product (all fiber) and one of our potential
customers
        mentioned HALT/HASS environmental testing. Has anyone else had to go
through
        this for similar products?

        Thanks,

        Dave Wilson
        Alidian Networks Inc.

From - Thu Sep 14 05:32:09 2000
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To: nebs@world.std.com, michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net
Subject: Re: NEBS redundancy requirements
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Mike,

I don't believe that you'll find any requirement in GR-63-CORE or GR-1089-CORE
for dual-redundant power supplies.  What you probably have is a specification
specifying a "High Availability" system, which is often associated with the
near-100% uptime that is expected of telecommunications facilities.  The benefit
of dual-redundant power is that it removes one opportunity for a single-point
failure from your equipment shelf.  NEBS is frequently required of
telecommunications equipment if it is either (1) purchased by Bell South, SBC,
Qwest, or Verizon, and/or (2) be placed in one of their central offices by a
co-locator.  So, NEBS and "High Availability" are often mentioned in the same
breath.  However, NEBS doesn't dictate your power supply architecture as to
whether it is redundant or not.  You may find it more cost-effective in some
applications to consider a single high-MTBF power supply.

Scott Baer
======================
Scott J. Baer, P.E.
Product Compliance Engineer
AG Communication Systems
A Subsidiary of Lucent Technologies


Michael Prussel wrote:

> Greetings all -
>
> A question has come up regarding the need for dual-redundant power supplies
> residing within a Compact PCI system chassis. One of our people claims this
> feature ties to NEBS compliance.
>
> Is there a specific NEBS requirement(s) that would dictate dual redundant
> power supplies? If so, where can I find it?
>
> Would a single high-MTBF power supply be an alternative way to meet such a
> requirement?
>
> Thanks very much for your help.
>
> Mike Prussel
> Regulatory Engineer
> Spike Broadband Systems
> Nashua, NH
> michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net

From - Thu Sep 14 05:32:15 2000
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From: Marko Radojicic <ma...@caspiannetworks.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net
Subject: RE: NEBS redundancy requirements
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Mike,

Scott is correct in his response but you may want to consider AT&Ts
requirements which are entitled "NEDS" (no typo, it stands for Network
Equipment Development Standards) if they are a potential customer. Req.
1.2-20 states:

"Each element/shelf/circuit pack, whichever is the smallest independent load
device of the NE, shall obtain power from two completely independent power
units..."

Depending on your product architecture, this requirement may not apply. I'd
recommend reading the entire document to get a better understanding of the
intent.

You can find NEDS at: http://world.std.com/~csweb/nebs.html.

Cheers,
Marko Radojicic
email: ma...@caspiannetworks.com
phone: 408/382-5206
fax: tbd



-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Baer [mailto:ba...@agcs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 3:14 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com; michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net
Subject: Re: NEBS redundancy requirements


Mike,

I don't believe that you'll find any requirement in GR-63-CORE or
GR-1089-CORE
for dual-redundant power supplies.  What you probably have is a
specification
specifying a "High Availability" system, which is often associated with the
near-100% uptime that is expected of telecommunications facilities.  The
benefit
of dual-redundant power is that it removes one opportunity for a
single-point
failure from your equipment shelf.  NEBS is frequently required of
telecommunications equipment if it is either (1) purchased by Bell South,
SBC,
Qwest, or Verizon, and/or (2) be placed in one of their central offices by a
co-locator.  So, NEBS and "High Availability" are often mentioned in the
same
breath.  However, NEBS doesn't dictate your power supply architecture as to
whether it is redundant or not.  You may find it more cost-effective in some
applications to consider a single high-MTBF power supply.

Scott Baer
======================
Scott J. Baer, P.E.
Product Compliance Engineer
AG Communication Systems
A Subsidiary of Lucent Technologies


Michael Prussel wrote:

> Greetings all -
>
> A question has come up regarding the need for dual-redundant power
supplies
> residing within a Compact PCI system chassis. One of our people claims
this
> feature ties to NEBS compliance.
>
> Is there a specific NEBS requirement(s) that would dictate dual redundant
> power supplies? If so, where can I find it?
>
> Would a single high-MTBF power supply be an alternative way to meet such a
> requirement?
>
> Thanks very much for your help.
>
> Mike Prussel
> Regulatory Engineer
> Spike Broadband Systems
> Nashua, NH
> michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net

From - Thu Sep 14 05:32:17 2000
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From: "gerry.dooley" <gerry.doo...@vivacenetworks.com>
To: <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: NEBS redundancy requirements
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Mike,

In addition to imposing NEBS requirements, carriers such as SBC, AT&T, etc.,
will typically
complement NEBS with general equipment specifications which contain power
requirements
(among other requirements) for their own or for co-located equipment. A
carrier's co-location
requirements do not address equipment availability.
Examples include:  AT&T Network Services - Network Equipment Development
Standards (NEDS),
December 30, 1999; Bell Atlantic - RNSA-NEB-95-0003, Rev 10, Issued: January
26, 2000;
SBC Local Exchange Carriers - Equipment Requirements TP76200MP, December 30,
1998

Often specified is a primary power source that is dual (A and B) -48 VDC.
This, by itself, does not
require dual-redundant power supplies or converters.  If not otherwise
specified, it may become more a
matter of system availability calculations.  A single high-MTBF power supply
can result in a lower (poorer)
system availability than dual-redundant, lower MTBF power supplies, provided
that no system down time is
incurred during the failure and subsequent replacement of one of the
redundant supplies.  This, of course,
assumes field replaceable, hot swappable power supplies.

Another useful industry standard for carriers is, ANSI T1.315-1994, Voltage
Levels for DC-Powered Equipment -
Used in the Telecommunications Environment - (ATIS/Committee T1), which
specifies power sources, but is not
concerned with equipment availability and redundant power supplies.

I do not know of any NEBS requirement for dual redundant power supplies.

Gerry Dooley
Vivace Networks, Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: nebs-appro...@world.std.com [mailto:nebs-appro...@world.std.com]On
Behalf Of Scott Baer
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 3:14 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com; michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net
Subject: Re: NEBS redundancy requirements

Mike,

I don't believe that you'll find any requirement in GR-63-CORE or
GR-1089-CORE
for dual-redundant power supplies.  What you probably have is a
specification
specifying a "High Availability" system, which is often associated with the
near-100% uptime that is expected of telecommunications facilities.  The
benefit
of dual-redundant power is that it removes one opportunity for a
single-point
failure from your equipment shelf.  NEBS is frequently required of
telecommunications equipment if it is either (1) purchased by Bell South,
SBC,
Qwest, or Verizon, and/or (2) be placed in one of their central offices by a
co-locator.  So, NEBS and "High Availability" are often mentioned in the
same
breath.  However, NEBS doesn't dictate your power supply architecture as to
whether it is redundant or not.  You may find it more cost-effective in some
applications to consider a single high-MTBF power supply.

Scott Baer
======================
Scott J. Baer, P.E.
Product Compliance Engineer
AG Communication Systems
A Subsidiary of Lucent Technologies


Michael Prussel wrote:

> Greetings all -
>
> A question has come up regarding the need for dual-redundant power
supplies
> residing within a Compact PCI system chassis. One of our people claims
this
> feature ties to NEBS compliance.
>
> Is there a specific NEBS requirement(s) that would dictate dual redundant
> power supplies? If so, where can I find it?
>
> Would a single high-MTBF power supply be an alternative way to meet such a
> requirement?
>
> Thanks very much for your help.
>
> Mike Prussel
> Regulatory Engineer
> Spike Broadband Systems
> Nashua, NH
> michael.prus...@spikebroadband.net


From - Thu Sep 14 05:33:10 2000
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Attention NEBS Fans,

RNSA-NEB-95-0003 has been upissued to Rev. 10a.  My quick review of this
document indicates that it is the same as Rev. 10, but with a global replacement

of "Bell-Atlantic" with "Verizon".  The Rev.10a is dated 8/1/00, replacing Rev.
10, dated 1/26/00.

However, we still use the "Bell-Atlantic" URL to download the Word97 document:

http://www.bellatlantic.com/wholesale/html/res_nebs.htm

Regards,

Scott Baer
======================
Scott J. Baer, P.E.
Product Compliance Engineer
AG Communication Systems
A Subsidiary of Lucent Technologies

From - Tue Sep 19 04:57:46 2000
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From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
To: "'EMC PSTC'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>, "'TREG Newsgroup'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'NEBS Newsgroup'" <NEBS@world.std.com>
Subject: MTBF Analysis
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        Is there anyone out there interested, or know of anyone who might be
interested, in a contract to perform an MTBF analysis on a modular chassis
product located in the Boston area?

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>> 

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com

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From: "Kretsch, John" <john_kret...@adc.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
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Subject: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:05:55 -0500
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I thought I would try to contact the collective on this one...

We have a shelf system that is failing GR-63 hygro dust with excessive bit
errors (unit did pass Gaseous contaminants no problem).  Air is filtered.
Anyone have experiences that they would like to share (non-proprietary of
course) about how to trouble-shoot and solve this problem?  This was the
only GR-63 test to have a failure.

Regards,
John K.

From - Tue Sep 19 04:58:06 2000
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From: Marko Radojicic <ma...@caspiannetworks.com>
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Subject: RE: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
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John,

Excessive voltage gradients are what causes failures in this test. I'd
suggest looking at each chip and finding the worst case voltage gradients
between pins. You can start with your supply voltage (battery or AC) to
ground separations. If you have a voltage gradient in excess of
11V/thousandth of an inch, this would be a good place to start looking for
issues.

The best, but most painful short-term solution, would be a design re-layout
of the offending separation. I've never used conformal coating due to other
issues (reliability, thermals) but that may be a way to go as well depending
on your product.

You may also want to go to a better air filter if you have the space and/or
thermal margin.

Good luck,
Marko Radojicic
email: ma...@caspiannetworks.com
phone: 408/382-5206
fax: tbd



-----Original Message-----
From: Kretsch, John [mailto:john_kret...@adc.com]
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:06 AM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'; 'EMC PSTC'; 'TREG Newsgroup'
Subject: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting


I thought I would try to contact the collective on this one...

We have a shelf system that is failing GR-63 hygro dust with excessive bit
errors (unit did pass Gaseous contaminants no problem).  Air is filtered.
Anyone have experiences that they would like to share (non-proprietary of
course) about how to trouble-shoot and solve this problem?  This was the
only GR-63 test to have a failure.

Regards,
John K.

From - Tue Sep 19 04:58:23 2000
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From: "Gary Raper" <gary.ra...@tekelec.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:59:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting
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John,
GR-63 allows you to include Root Cause Analysis in the report.  If you determine
the cause of the failure, you may find that it is not related to the dust
exposure.  Is it possible that ESD caused the failure condition?  Your assembly
is handled after each test. Troubleshooting each board in the shelf to find the
failure source will help in your conclusion.   Also, what is the product's
design life?  How relevant is this test to your product.  Include those comments
in the report, if they apply.  Keep in mind that if you remove the assembly from
the control of the NRTL, the test conclusion will be that the card/s failed the
test.  It never hurts to review the test data to confirm that the test was
performed correctly.  You can also retest with a new assembly, for dust only.
If it passes and you have your R.C.A. from the first test, that may be
sufficient.

Gary Raper





"Kretsch, John" <john_kret...@adc.com> on 09/18/2000 11:05:55 AM

Please respond to nebs@world.std.com

To:   "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>, "'EMC PSTC'"
      <emc-p...@ieee.org>, "'TREG Newsgroup'" <t...@world.std.com>
cc:    (bcc: Gary Raper/Raleigh/TEKELEC)
Subject:  Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting




I thought I would try to contact the collective on this one...

We have a shelf system that is failing GR-63 hygro dust with excessive bit
errors (unit did pass Gaseous contaminants no problem).  Air is filtered.
Anyone have experiences that they would like to share (non-proprietary of
course) about how to trouble-shoot and solve this problem?  This was the
only GR-63 test to have a failure.

Regards,
John K.







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Subject: RE: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:03:31 -0700
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Texas Instruments (TI) has switched to a palladium lead finish to address
European environmental concerns associated with lead disposal.  There have
been documented failures of the hygroscopic dust test attributed to
palladium coated leads.  TI is aware of the problem, but to my knowledge
nothing has been done about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kretsch, John 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 11:06 AM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'; 'EMC PSTC'; 'TREG Newsgroup'
Subject: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting


I thought I would try to contact the collective on this one...

We have a shelf system that is failing GR-63 hygro dust with excessive bit
errors (unit did pass Gaseous contaminants no problem).  Air is filtered.
Anyone have experiences that they would like to share (non-proprietary of
course) about how to trouble-shoot and solve this problem?  This was the
only GR-63 test to have a failure.

Regards,
John K.

From - Tue Sep 19 04:58:29 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting
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I suggest that you contact MET LABS in Union City California. Their "Dust
Man" is really a good man and would probably offer you advice. I have
forgotten his name but you can reach him through Troy Franklin 888-638-9345

Don
Don Robert House, MTS
Product Certification & Regulatory Compliance
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2875 Loker Avenue East
Carlsbad, CA 92008-6626  USA
(760) 918-2552 Office/Lab
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Kretsch, John [mailto:john_kret...@adc.com]
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:06 AM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'; 'EMC PSTC'; 'TREG Newsgroup'
Subject: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting


I thought I would try to contact the collective on this one...

We have a shelf system that is failing GR-63 hygro dust with excessive bit
errors (unit did pass Gaseous contaminants no problem).  Air is filtered.
Anyone have experiences that they would like to share (non-proprietary of
course) about how to trouble-shoot and solve this problem?  This was the
only GR-63 test to have a failure.

Regards,
John K.

From - Fri Sep 22 05:19:19 2000
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From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
To: "'EMC PSTC'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>, "'TREG Newsgroup'" <t...@world.std.com>,
        "'NEBS Newsgroup'" <NEBS@world.std.com>
Subject: Career Opportunities  -  delete if not interested
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:41:33 -0400
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        For anyone interested in an exciting new career opportunity at a hot
pre-IPO company, take a peek at the career opportunities at Telica.  If your
qualifications fit any of the job descriptions below, please feel free to
forward your resume by responding to this email.

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>> 

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com


Component Engineer

Job description
The position requires an individual who will work with Operations and
Engineering to develop and maintain component specifications, select
electronic components for use in new designs, maintain awareness of
component availability, cost, planned obsolescence, and possible
replacements. Responsibilities also include qualifying components for
product use, analyzing and resolving component issues, and performing
failure analysis.  Strong communication/presentation skills are needed for
quick closure of internal and external component issues.   Must be
multi-task orientated.  
Qualifications:
BS technical degree or ASEE with related experience.
ISO certification experience a plus.


Reliability Engineer

Job description
The position requires an individual who will work with Operations and
Engineering to develop an overall reliability process and methodology across
all product lines.  Strong communication/presentation skills are needed for
quick closure of internal and external reliability issues.  Must create an
on-going process to insure total reliability of product including MTBF,
FITs, and System reliability. Must be multi-task orientated.  Will create
hardware/software related test methodologies and procedures.  Familiarity
with HALT/HASS processes. Responsibilities include performing reliability
analysis and test functions, data gathering, report generation and problem
resolution.

Qualifications:
BS technical degree-Strong background in HALT/HASS, and DVT.
ISO certification experience a plus


Systems Test Engineer



Primary Function: Writing and developing Manufacturing system test plans for
ATM and cell-based products.    
Responsibilities (to include, but not limited to): 1. Analyze / read system
functional specifications to determine manufacturing test plans.  2. Write
manufacturing test plans according to results of system functional
specifications. 3. Maintain test scripts for manufacturing tests.  3.
Interface with engineering to determine requirements and understanding of
the product.  4. Define test environment (the set-up in the Manufacturing
Lab). 5. Determine test equipment needed.  6. Attend cross-functional team
review meetings.  9. Interact with development and manufacturing engineering
to resolve issues.      
Qualifications:  BSEE or equivalent experience, with hands-on experience in
the following areas: ATM and cell-based products and voice and telecom to
include Switches. Successful candidates will possess a good working
knowledge of the test equipment used to test telecommunications products.
Strong communication skills, along with consistent follow-through. A minimum
of 5-10 years industry experience with datacom or telecom and a familiarity
with Expect/TCL scripting a plus.       


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List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:38:53 -0700
To: NEBS@world.std.com, t...@world.std.com
From: Wale Aderemi <wader...@lucent.com>
Subject: Fuse vs PTC
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Does anyone have a good guideline (other than space constrains)  as to when
to use a Fuse or PTC for over-current protection on the following
interfaces, assuming the product must meet NEBS and Telecom regs.
1. Power
2. WAN
3. LAN
4. Subscriber line, POTs,etc

I have been getting a lot of requests from Design Engineers who want to use
Fuse. I want to consider all Pros and Cons of Fuse/PTC .

Thanks,
Wale Aderemi
Compliance Engineer

From - Fri Sep 22 05:19:37 2000
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Message-ID: <FA60E0479408D411ADA400902787323D0F679C@oresisexchange.oresis>
From: David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
To: "Nebs List Serve (E-mail)" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: GR1089 Radiated Magnetic Field limits
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:06:23 -0700
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Hi All,
I am working out a test plan for the magnetic field requirements in GR1089
3.2.2 and noticed that the math didn't work when I started figuring the
dBuA/m for a 10 meter site.  This is kind of a duh question, but am I
correct in assuming that we need to do the H fields at 3 meters?  If someone
wouldn't mind sharing the distances they use for this test, I would be most
grateful.
Thanks,
Dave Spencer     Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
* dspen...@oresis.com  * http://www.oresis.com
* (503) 466-6289  * (503) 533-8233  

From - Fri Sep 22 05:21:50 2000
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Subject: Air filters
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Can somebody answer this simple question:

Under what circumstances, if any, are you obliged to have an air filter 
in your product ?

What standard and clause(s) specify this requirement ?

Brian McAuliffe
Tellabs



From - Fri Sep 22 05:21:54 2000
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From: Marko Radojicic <ma...@caspiannetworks.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: Air filters
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Brian,

As far as I know, there is no standard which *forces* you to have an air
filter and, based upon your product's technology and expected life, you may
not need one.

However if you are designing with forced air cooling, have a long life
expectancy (5+ yrs), and any type of fine pitch devices, you will need to
filter the air in order to maintain reliable operation. If you can pass the
Airborne Contaminants section of GR-63 without an air filter, it would
indicate that you do not need one.

Marko Radojicic
email: ma...@caspiannetworks.com
phone: 408/382-5206
fax: 408/382-5593



-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:36 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Air filters


Can somebody answer this simple question:

Under what circumstances, if any, are you obliged to have an air filter 
in your product ?

What standard and clause(s) specify this requirement ?

Brian McAuliffe
Tellabs


From - Fri Sep 22 05:22:02 2000
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To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: Air filters
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With regard to safety standards e.g. UL1950/EN60950, the filter may
influence the pollution degree inside your product.

-----Original Message-----
From: Marko Radojicic [mailto:ma...@caspiannetworks.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:08 PM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: RE: Air filters


Brian,

As far as I know, there is no standard which *forces* you to have an air
filter and, based upon your product's technology and expected life, you may
not need one.

However if you are designing with forced air cooling, have a long life
expectancy (5+ yrs), and any type of fine pitch devices, you will need to
filter the air in order to maintain reliable operation. If you can pass the
Airborne Contaminants section of GR-63 without an air filter, it would
indicate that you do not need one.

Marko Radojicic
email: ma...@caspiannetworks.com
phone: 408/382-5206
fax: 408/382-5593



-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:36 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Air filters


Can somebody answer this simple question:

Under what circumstances, if any, are you obliged to have an air filter 
in your product ?

What standard and clause(s) specify this requirement ?

Brian McAuliffe
Tellabs

From - Fri Sep 22 05:22:04 2000
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Brian,

     You might want to read GR-78 Section 8 and pay attention to R8-3. GR-63
Airborne contaminants does not deal with air particles large enough to be
captured by a filter.

Richard.





Marko Radojicic <ma...@caspiannetworks.com> on 09/21/2000 10:08:10 AM

Please respond to nebs@world.std.com

Sent by:  Marko Radojicic <ma...@caspiannetworks.com>


To:   "'nebs @world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
cc:    (Richard Dartez/PA/3Com)
Subject:  RE: Air filters



Brian,

As far as I know, there is no standard which *forces* you to have an air
filter and, based upon your product's technology and expected life, you may
not need one.

However if you are designing with forced air cooling, have a long life
expectancy (5+ yrs), and any type of fine pitch devices, you will need to
filter the air in order to maintain reliable operation. If you can pass the
Airborne Contaminants section of GR-63 without an air filter, it would
indicate that you do not need one.

Marko Radojicic
email: ma...@caspiannetworks.com
phone: 408/382-5206
fax: 408/382-5593



-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:36 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Air filters


Can somebody answer this simple question:

Under what circumstances, if any, are you obliged to have an air filter
in your product ?

What standard and clause(s) specify this requirement ?

Brian McAuliffe
Tellabs






From - Fri Sep 22 05:22:09 2000
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From: "Gary Raper" <gary.ra...@tekelec.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:53:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Air filters
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Brian,

Look at GR-78-CORE, R8-3: "All fan cooled equipment shall be equiped with
filters.  That section also covers requirements for the filter.

Gary Raper
Tekelec




brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com on 09/21/2000 12:35:57 PM

Please respond to nebs@world.std.com

To:   nebs@world.std.com
cc:    (bcc: Gary Raper/Raleigh/TEKELEC)
Subject:  Air filters




Can somebody answer this simple question:

Under what circumstances, if any, are you obliged to have an air filter
in your product ?

What standard and clause(s) specify this requirement ?

Brian McAuliffe
Tellabs










From - Fri Sep 22 05:22:11 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: Air filters
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:15:46 -0700
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Hello Brian,

The expected product environment is what should be used when making this
type of decision.  If the components will be affected by metallic dust or
powdered chemicals, many manufacturers coat the circuit board, and some use
filters.  Temperature also plays a role. The filter restricts the air flow
and requires a person to change it periodically.  In the old days in the
Bell System, we would add an optional filter to equipment when it was
installed in places like cement plants, steel works, printing firms, etc.,
etc. I do not think you will find a specific requirement written regarding
the addition of a filter, but I am only going from memory.

Don
Don Robert House, MTS
Product Certification & Regulatory Compliance
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2875 Loker Avenue East
Carlsbad, CA 92008-6626  USA
(760) 918-2552 Office/Lab
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com [mailto:brian.mcauli...@tellabs.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:36 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Air filters


Can somebody answer this simple question:

Under what circumstances, if any, are you obliged to have an air filter 
in your product ?

What standard and clause(s) specify this requirement ?

Brian McAuliffe
Tellabs


From - Fri Sep 22 05:22:29 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: New Verizon Checklist
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:11:09 -0700
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Thank you very much Scott.
Don

Don Robert House, MTS
Product Certification & Regulatory Compliance
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2875 Loker Avenue East
Carlsbad, CA 92008-6626  USA
(760) 918-2552 Office/Lab
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Baer [mailto:ba...@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 12:02 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: New Verizon Checklist


Attention NEBS Fans,

RNSA-NEB-95-0003 has been upissued to Rev. 10a.  My quick review of this
document indicates that it is the same as Rev. 10, but with a global
replacement

of "Bell-Atlantic" with "Verizon".  The Rev.10a is dated 8/1/00, replacing
Rev.
10, dated 1/26/00.

However, we still use the "Bell-Atlantic" URL to download the Word97
document:

http://www.bellatlantic.com/wholesale/html/res_nebs.htm

Regards,

Scott Baer
======================
Scott J. Baer, P.E.
Product Compliance Engineer
AG Communication Systems
A Subsidiary of Lucent Technologies

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From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
To: "'David Spencer'" <dspen...@oresis.com>,
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Subject: RE: NEBS: GR-63  Altitude Test Profile
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David,

        This particular test profile is one which I have recently tried to
shed some light on as well.  I am curious where you come to the conclusion
that the application of the criteria for altitude references Table 4.5.  The
requirement (R4-8 anyway) states, "All equipment shall be functional within
the limits specified in Table 4-4 when installed at elevations between 60 m
(197 ft) below sea level and
1800 m (5905 ft) above sea level."  I would think this would be overkill as
you seem to imply that this would encompass another 8-day test profile.
Referencing Table 4.5 would also imply that the temperature limit at 4000M
would be 55 degC where the limits of Table 4.4 clearly state a temperature
limit of 50 degC.

        It would be greatly appreciated if anyone else could share their
experiences on this requirement.  What do the RBOC's expect to see for test
results?  I figured I'd post this on the NEBS Forum as well to reach a wider
audience.

Thx,


Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Spencer [mailto:dspen...@oresis.com]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 12:42 PM
To: 'Collins, Jeffrey'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org '
Subject: RE: NEBS: GR-63 Altitude Test Profile



Hi Jeffrey,
Our friends at Telcordia do seem to enjoy listing requirements where we
would least expect them.  GR63 is no exception.  For altitude, the limits
called out in R4-8 [74] and O4-10[76] for Table 4-4 are the general
temperature/humidity limits for long and short term exposure.  The
application of those criteria can be found in Table 4.5 in the 182 hour
profile.

It is my belief that you test to at 4000m using the profile from table 4.5,
unless you wanted to make a profile of your own that covered the same ground
over a longer period of time, using Table 4-4 for the limits, rates of
change, and duration.  If the EUT cannot tolerate the resulting temperature
rise from the 4000m altitude, it will be necessary to retest at 1800 to meet
R4-8.  The failure is documented in the NEBS data submitted to the carrier
who decides if it is something he wants you to do something about before he
purchases you equipment.  I do not think it is necessary to test 1800m if
you have passed the table 4-5 profile at 4000m.

Don't forget: Objective requirements are not elective.  The tests must be
performed and the results documented.  It is by this means that decisions
are made about making the objective a mandatory requirement down the road.

Good Luck!
Dave Spencer     Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
* dspen...@oresis.com  * http://www.oresis.com
* (503) 466-6289  * (503) 533-8233  



-----Original Message-----
From: Collins, Jeffrey [mailto:jcoll...@ciena.com]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:36 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org '
Subject: NEBS: GR-63 Altitude Test Profile



Group,

GR-63 sections 4.1.3  &  5.1 do not give a definitive testing profile for
Altitude testing. If you have completed this test what profile did you use?
Is there a customer specification from an RBOC or CLEC that you found to be
definitive. It appears that by only addressing these sections you could have
to retest down the road for a customer located in a high altitude
environment.  Which Telco has the most stringent internal specifications for
this test?

Points to be considered are:

*  Max Altitude
4000m

*  Temperature at max Altitude
Profile in Table 4-5

*  Relative Humidity
Profile in Table 4-5

*  Length of time at Max Altitude
182 hrs


Thanks in advance,


Jeffrey Collins 
MTS, Principal Compliance Engineer
Ciena Core Switching Division
jcoll...@ciena.com
www.ciena.com


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From - Tue Sep 26 16:20:48 2000
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Jim,

        That summary was very informative.  I would be interested in the
feedback generated from Richard Kluges proposal to suppliers and service
providers as mentioned in your attached letter.  This will be an interesting
topic at the NEBS 2000 Conference in Baltimore next week.

Thx,


Joe

********************************************
Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Foster Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com



-----Original Message-----
From: JIM WIESE [mailto:jim.wi...@adtran.com]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:54 PM
To: emc-pstc; Collins, Jeffrey
Subject: RE: NEBS: GR-63 Altitude Test Profile


Hello Jeffrey,

Basically, to demonstrate compliance with "GR-63-CORE", no altitude testing
is required assuming you have passed the standard temperature and humidity
profile.  The rationale is that, at that altitude, heating the facility will
be the primary concern, not cooling it.  According to the national weather
service, the expected ambient high temperature at that altitude is less than
20C.  If a facility at that altitude lost HVAC, it probably would start
cooling off rather than heating up.  Thus the reason there is no test
method.  It was simply intended as a design criteria that should be
considered.

However you can demonstrate compliance above and beyond the current
GR-63-CORE for altitude by raising the temperature limits during the
operational temperature and humidity testing by 1 degree C per 1000 foot of
altitude that you want to simulate.  This assumes you do not have components
that may be altitude sensitive.  It also assumes worst case conditions for
the amount of heat that your product may be generating.

However, some ILEC's may want to see an actual altitude test depending upon
the equipment type and application.  In this case Richard Kluge at Telcordia
has developed a "proposed" altitude exposure test and he has a paper that
was written in December of 1999 covering the rationale etc.  Telcordia now
has an altitude chamber and is conducting a study to determine if altitude
is a potential concern based on the design of modern telecommunications
equipment for the next revision of GR-63-CORE.

Attached is the Telcordia document from Richard Kluge, note that the
temperatures recommended for testing at altitude are much lower than 50C,
and thus are looking more at determining component altitude sensitivity
rather than reduced air density and temperature.

 <<Adobe Portable Document>> 

These are solely my opinions, and not necessarily those of my employer

Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 140000
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com 

> ----------
> From:         Collins, Jeffrey[SMTP:jcoll...@ciena.com]
> Reply To:     Collins, Jeffrey
> Sent:         Monday, September 25, 2000 8:36 AM
> To:   'emc-p...@ieee.org '
> Subject:      NEBS: GR-63  Altitude Test Profile
> 
> 
> Group,
> 
> GR-63 sections 4.1.3  &  5.1 do not give a definitive testing profile for
> Altitude testing. If you have completed this test what profile did you
> use?
> Is there a customer specification from an RBOC or CLEC that you found to
> be
> definitive. It appears that by only addressing these sections you could
> have
> to retest down the road for a customer located in a high altitude
> environment.  Which Telco has the most stringent internal specifications
> for
> this test?
> 
> Points to be considered are:
> 
> *  Max Altitude
> 
> *  Temperature at max Altitude
> 
> *  Relative Humidity
> 
> *  Length of time at Max Altitude
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
> Jeffrey Collins 
> MTS, Principal Compliance Engineer
> Ciena Core Switching Division
> jcoll...@ciena.com
> www.ciena.com
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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> 

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From: plaw...@west.net (Patrick Lawler)
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Re: GR1089 Radiated Magnetic Field limits
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Did you get any responses to your question?

What part of the math didn't work out?


On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:06:23 -0700, David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
wrote:
>I am working out a test plan for the magnetic field requirements in GR1089
>3.2.2 and noticed that the math didn't work when I started figuring the
>dBuA/m for a 10 meter site.  This is kind of a duh question, but am I
>correct in assuming that we need to do the H fields at 3 meters?  If someone
>wouldn't mind sharing the distances they use for this test, I would be most
>grateful.
>Thanks,
>Dave Spencer     Compliance Engineer
>Oresis Communications, Inc.
>14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
>* dspen...@oresis.com  * http://www.oresis.com
>* (503) 466-6289  * (503) 533-8233  

From - Sun Oct 01 12:33:01 2000
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Does anyone have a feel for the degree of acceptance of GR-63/1089 in
Europe? I can remember at a previous company we got LONIIS in Russia to
accept NEBS test results with minimal additional assessment against ETS 300
019/119.

Anyone else have any stories to tell, other than the obvious spatial
differences?

Thanks,

Dave Wilson
Alidian Networks

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From: "Gorodetsky, Vitaly" <vgorodet...@canoga.com>
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Dave,

I am quite familiar with LONIIS (in St. Petersburg) and I am rather
surprised.  Typically, GOST-R mark would be satisfactory.  LONIIS is one of
Russia Telecom Certification Centers.  NEBS has nothing to do with
homologation and LONIIS's scope of evaluation, as I see it.  Did they take
NEBS tests results as a substitute for all other relevant safety and EMC
tests?

Could you elaborate?
Thanks,
Vitaly  Gorodetsky
Compliance Engineer                     Direct: (818) 678-3840

The suitability of this information for making decision is solely with the
reader


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Dave Wilson [SMTP:dwil...@alidian.com]
        Sent:   Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:45 PM
        To:     'nebs@world.std.com'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org';
't...@world.std.com'
        Subject:        ETSI standards vs NEBS

        Does anyone have a feel for the degree of acceptance of GR-63/1089
in
        Europe? I can remember at a previous company we got LONIIS in Russia
to
        accept NEBS test results with minimal additional assessment against
ETS 300
        019/119.

        Anyone else have any stories to tell, other than the obvious spatial
        differences?

        Thanks,

        Dave Wilson
        Alidian Networks

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Subject: RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:29:42 +0100
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Dear Dave / Vitaly,

In general terms throughout Europe (West [EU] - Central - East [incl.
CIS]) the ETS 300 019/119 series tends to take precedence [over NEBS]
where required by customers (e.g. Network Operators).

There are no regulatory requirements in the EU and strictly speaking
there are only environmental & reliability requirements to be met for
the Russian Federation's Elektrosviaz (Telecom) Certification.

As US manufacturers tend only to test for NEBS, I have had to use the
relevant NEBS or HALT test reports to support the TT&C [Technical Terms
& Conditions] document presented to the State Committee.  In terms of
test reports demonstrating compliance with Safety and EMC, NEBS reports
would not be accepted albeit that they are now closely aligned with
International standards.

Best regards,

Edward Fitzgerald
Director
Direct Tel. : +44 1202 20 09 22
Mobile Tel. : +44 7768 53 31 00 
European Technology Services (EMEA)
Specialist Global Compliance and Regulatory Consultancy
Regional/Associate Offices in Australia, Canada, Russian Federation and
the UK. 
GLOBAL INtelLIGENCE Site < http://www.ets-tele.com > pssst ... spread
the word 


-----Original Message-----
From: Gorodetsky, Vitaly [mailto:vgorodet...@canoga.com]
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 1:01 AM
To: 'Dave Wilson'; 'nebs@world.std.com'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org';
't...@world.std.com'
Subject: RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS



Dave,

I am quite familiar with LONIIS (in St. Petersburg) and I am rather
surprised.  Typically, GOST-R mark would be satisfactory.  LONIIS is one
of
Russia Telecom Certification Centers.  NEBS has nothing to do with
homologation and LONIIS's scope of evaluation, as I see it.  Did they
take
NEBS tests results as a substitute for all other relevant safety and EMC
tests?

Could you elaborate?
Thanks,
Vitaly  Gorodetsky
Compliance Engineer                     Direct: (818) 678-3840

The suitability of this information for making decision is solely with
the
reader


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Dave Wilson [SMTP:dwil...@alidian.com]
        Sent:   Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:45 PM
        To:     'nebs@world.std.com'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org';
't...@world.std.com'
        Subject:        ETSI standards vs NEBS

        Does anyone have a feel for the degree of acceptance of
GR-63/1089
in
        Europe? I can remember at a previous company we got LONIIS in
Russia
to
        accept NEBS test results with minimal additional assessment
against
ETS 300
        019/119.

        Anyone else have any stories to tell, other than the obvious
spatial
        differences?

        Thanks,

        Dave Wilson
        Alidian Networks

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From - Sun Oct 01 12:34:49 2000
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Can anybody advise me whether an MRA (mutual recognition agreement )exsists
between the EU and the US?
If so does this mean that electrical and mechanical products tested to CE
standards do not need further approval (UL?) to be marketed in the states.
Thanks.

From - Sun Oct 01 12:34:35 2000
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forwarding for daryl.al...@edwards.boc.com

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject:    US Approval
Author: "Alden; Daryl" <daryl.al...@edwards.boc.com>
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date:       9/29/00 4:10 AM


Can anybody advise me whether an MRA (mutual recognition agreement )exsists
between the EU and the US?
If so does this mean that electrical and mechanical products tested to CE
standards do not need further approval (UL?) to be marketed in the states.
Thanks.


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From - Sun Oct 01 12:35:04 2000
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Subject: RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
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Dear Ed,

Thanks for your clarification and a copy of revised  "An overview of the
current Approval for the Russian Federation", Issue 2.

Let us not forget that NEBS documents specify set of requirements
(occasionally procedures)and refer to applicable US testing standards not
necessarily harmonized with international standards.

Vitaly  Gorodetsky

The suitability of this information for making decision is solely with the
reader


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Edward Fitzgerald [SMTP:edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com]
        Sent:   Friday, September 29, 2000 2:30 AM
        To:     'Gorodetsky, Vitaly'; 'Dave Wilson'; 'nebs@world.std.com';
'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 't...@world.std.com'
        Subject:        RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS


        Dear Dave / Vitaly,

        In general terms throughout Europe (West [EU] - Central - East
[incl.
        CIS]) the ETS 300 019/119 series tends to take precedence [over
NEBS]
        where required by customers (e.g. Network Operators).

        There are no regulatory requirements in the EU and strictly speaking
        there are only environmental & reliability requirements to be met
for
        the Russian Federation's Elektrosviaz (Telecom) Certification.

        As US manufacturers tend only to test for NEBS, I have had to use
the
        relevant NEBS or HALT test reports to support the TT&C [Technical
Terms
        & Conditions] document presented to the State Committee.  In terms
of
        test reports demonstrating compliance with Safety and EMC, NEBS
reports
        would not be accepted albeit that they are now closely aligned with
        International standards.

        Best regards,

        Edward Fitzgerald
        Director
        Direct Tel. : +44 1202 20 09 22
        Mobile Tel. : +44 7768 53 31 00 
        European Technology Services (EMEA)
        Specialist Global Compliance and Regulatory Consultancy
        Regional/Associate Offices in Australia, Canada, Russian Federation
and
        the UK. 
        GLOBAL INtelLIGENCE Site < http://www.ets-tele.com > pssst ...
spread
        the word 


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Gorodetsky, Vitaly [mailto:vgorodet...@canoga.com]
        Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 1:01 AM
        To: 'Dave Wilson'; 'nebs@world.std.com'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org';
        't...@world.std.com'
        Subject: RE: ETSI standards vs NEBS



        Dave,

        I am quite familiar with LONIIS (in St. Petersburg) and I am rather
        surprised.  Typically, GOST-R mark would be satisfactory.  LONIIS is
one
        of
        Russia Telecom Certification Centers.  NEBS has nothing to do with
        homologation and LONIIS's scope of evaluation, as I see it.  Did
they
        take
        NEBS tests results as a substitute for all other relevant safety and
EMC
        tests?

        Could you elaborate?
        Thanks,
        Vitaly  Gorodetsky
        Compliance Engineer                     Direct: (818) 678-3840

        The suitability of this information for making decision is solely
with
        the
        reader


                -----Original Message-----
                From:   Dave Wilson [SMTP:dwil...@alidian.com]
                Sent:   Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:45 PM
                To:     'nebs@world.std.com'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org';
        't...@world.std.com'
                Subject:        ETSI standards vs NEBS

                Does anyone have a feel for the degree of acceptance of
        GR-63/1089
        in
                Europe? I can remember at a previous company we got LONIIS
in
        Russia
        to
                accept NEBS test results with minimal additional assessment
        against
        ETS 300
                019/119.

                Anyone else have any stories to tell, other than the obvious
        spatial
                differences?

                Thanks,

                Dave Wilson
                Alidian Networks

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From - Wed Jun 14 05:20:39 2000
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Subject: Re: DS3 Lightning
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DS-3 is also exempt for other reasons.

Section 4.5 specifies application of surge and overvoltage to "paired-cable
interfaces."  Further the criteria of this section apply to "each
telecommunications port connecting to an outside plant pair"  DS3 is not a
paired interface.

They are discussed in section 4.6 which is entitled "Criteria for equipment
interfacing with coaxial cable ports."  This section replaces section 4.5 for
coaxial cables.  It also states "these criteria are not intended for...
conventional telecommunications services, such as DS3."

All this leaves DS3 without much of a home in section 4 of 1089.  I would assume
that the long duration of the deployment of DS3 has left the RBOCs with a good
strategy of deployment of DS3 (adequate protection devices at the building
entry) such that they are not experiencing problems with DS3, thus no additional
regulation is needed.  Until we get additional guidance from the RBOCs or
Telcordia, it would seem the thing to do is to report when DS3 ports exist in a
product so that future revisions of the product may be subject to requirements
when, and if, they become necessary.

I agree with Jim that if the DS3 stays within the building and the shield is
connected to ground at both ends that no testing would be required under 4.5 (if
you consider that applicable at all).  I do however believe that DS3 may leave
the building and that there exist implementations which do not ground the shield
at one end.

-Jon Curtis

JIM WIESE wrote:

> If both ends are intended to be grounded and you state this it in your
> documentation, intra-building lightning is exempt on a DS-3.
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Wiese
> NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
> ADTRAN, INC.
> 901 Explorer Blvd.
> P.O. Box 140000
> Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
> 256-963-8431
> 256-963-8250 fax
> jim.wi...@adtran.com
>
> > ----------
> > From:         Joe Finlayson[SMTP:jfinlay...@telica.com]
> > Reply To:     nebs@world.std.com
> > Sent:         Monday, June 12, 2000 6:00 PM
> > To:   'NEBS Newsgroup'
> > Subject:      DS3 Lightning
> >
> >
> >       I am hearing mixed opinions of whether a DS3 Coax interface falls
> > under the scope of interfaces to be subjected to GR-1089 4.5.9
> > Intrabuilding
> > Lightning Surge.  The way I interpret the standard is that it does fall
> > under the scope as there is no clear definition, that I could find, for
> > "Telecommunications Port".  I've seen verbiage citing examples, but no
> > clear
> > definition.  This interface will not connect to outside plant and I do
> > wish
> > to claim shielded cables with grounds at both ends to avoid the testing.
> > The scope of Section 4.6 clearly eliminates DS3 as part of that section.
> > The program team is against testing it and I would not like to see a
> > prospective customer reject the report.  Any and all feedback and opinions
> > from the group (RBOC's especially) would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thx,
> >
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > *********************************
> >  <<...>>
> >
> > Joe Finlayson
> > Manager, Compliance Engineering
> > Telica, Inc.
> > 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> > Marlboro, MA 01752
> > Tel:  (508) 480-0909 x212
> > Fax:  (508) 480-0922
> > Email:        jfinlay...@telica.com
> > Web:  www.telica.com
> >

--
Jon D. Curtis, P.E.

Director of Engineering
Curtis-Straus LLC

One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC,
Product Safety, and Telecom Testing.
527 Great Road
Littleton, MA 01460 USA
Voice 978-486-8880  Fax 978-486-8828
email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com
WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM


From - Sat Apr 08 07:30:02 2000
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Hi Group,
I am seeking guidance on test equipment that can be used to test the SBC and
AT&T DC noise immunity, surge, and drop out parameters as covered, more or
less, by ANSI T1.315.  In particular, any recommendations for the RF & VF
noise generators and a noise measuring test set would be very helpful.  A
single piece of equipment that did it all would be wonderful.  The last
little bit of wisdom would be a source for an 80mH coil made with 4-6 AWG
wire.
Thanks,
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
(503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com

From - Sat Apr 08 07:34:30 2000
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From: JIM WIESE <jim.wi...@adtran.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: Lightning tests on Ethernet ports
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:08:38 -0500 
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The Intra-building lightning tests in section 4 of GR-1089-CORE apply to
10baseT and 100baseT ports.  If the product can be deployed at a customer
premise, the 120V 25 amp power fault tests in section 4.5.16 also apply.
There are also documentation requirements stating these ports are only
intended for connection to intra-building wiring.

We regularly perform these tests and pass them on our 10baseT and 100baseT
interfaces as part of our NEBS evaluations.


Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 140000
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com 

> ----------
> From:         Mitch Gaudyn[SMTP:mgau...@charlesindustries.com]
> Sent:         Thursday, April 06, 2000 9:05 AM
> To:   nebs@world.std.com
> Subject:      Lightning tests on Ethernet ports
> 
> I am interested in finding out what lightning requirements exist on
> Ethernet ports located on both CO and Network equipment.  Also, if
> anyone has done any testing on these ports, I would be interested in the
> test methods and results.  Thank you.
> Mitch Gaudyn
> 

From - Sat Apr 08 07:35:22 2000
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From: JIM WIESE <jim.wi...@adtran.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: Lightning tests on Ethernet ports
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 15:00:36 -0500 
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Ethernet interfaces are normally connected to twisted pair cat 5 cable that
run long distances thoughout a facility just as a DSX-1 or other
intra-building interface.  As such, Jim Brunssen at Telcordia who is
responsible for GR-1089-CORE has stated that Ethernet ports used on network
equipment are to be tested just as any telecommunications interface (such as
a DSX-1) would be.  Jon Curtis (of Curtis Straus) also gave a presentation
at NEBS 1999 in Las Vegas stating that 10baseT and 100 baseT ports on
network equipment must be tested.  I suspect you will also find that all or
most of the NRTL's will require these ports to be tested as part of a
lightning or power fault evaluation.

Jim Brunssen can be reached at 973-929-2977.  John Curtis is the maintainer
of this listserver and can also be reached at 978-486-0888.  I might also
suggest possibly contacting ITS in Lexington, KY at 1-800-788-3061 if
further clarification is required.

Hope this helps,  
Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 140000
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com 

> ----------
> From:         Rex Brucker[SMTP:r...@garwoodtestlabs.com]
> Sent:         Friday, April 07, 2000 1:36 PM
> To:   nebs@world.std.com
> Subject:      Re: Lightning tests on Ethernet ports
> 
> Jim
> 
> Being new to the GR1089 Core Test requirements, I'm a little confused with
> your
> answer about the 10baseT and 100baseT ports.  Both Sections 4.5.9 and
> 4.5.16
> reference table 4-1 which references telecommunications port Tip and Ring
> pairs.  How does
> this apply to Ethernet LAN ports that do not carry Tip and Ring Signals.
> 
> Rex Brucker
> Garwood Test Labs.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: JIM WIESE <jim.wi...@adtran.com>
> To: <nebs@world.std.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:08 AM
> Subject: RE: Lightning tests on Ethernet ports
> 
> 
> > The Intra-building lightning tests in section 4 of GR-1089-CORE apply to
> > 10baseT and 100baseT ports.  If the product can be deployed at a
> customer
> > premise, the 120V 25 amp power fault tests in section 4.5.16 also apply.
> > There are also documentation requirements stating these ports are only
> > intended for connection to intra-building wiring.
> >
> > We regularly perform these tests and pass them on our 10baseT and
> 100baseT
> > interfaces as part of our NEBS evaluations.
> >
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Jim Wiese
> > NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
> > ADTRAN, INC.
> > 901 Explorer Blvd.
> > P.O. Box 140000
> > Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
> > 256-963-8431
> > 256-963-8250 fax
> > jim.wi...@adtran.com
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Mitch Gaudyn[SMTP:mgau...@charlesindustries.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 9:05 AM
> > > To: nebs@world.std.com
> > > Subject: Lightning tests on Ethernet ports
> > >
> > > I am interested in finding out what lightning requirements exist on
> > > Ethernet ports located on both CO and Network equipment.  Also, if
> > > anyone has done any testing on these ports, I would be interested in
> the
> > > test methods and results.  Thank you.
> > > Mitch Gaudyn
> > >
> >
> 

From - Mon May 08 19:38:42 2000
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From: "John Loiselle" <jloise...@integralaccess.com>
To: <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: BSP 802-001-180MP
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:28:00 -0400
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I am trying to locate document BSP 802-001-180MP referenced in Section 6 of
SBC Local Exchange Carriers TP76200MP dated December 30, 1998.  Does any one
have information on how I can obtain this document?  Thanks in advance.

John P. Loiselle
Principal Compliance Engineer
Integral Access, Inc.
6 Omni Way
Chelmsford, MA 01824
ph: (978) 256 8833 x228
fax: (978) 256 8077
email: jloise...@integralaccess.com


From - Mon May 08 19:39:19 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: BSP 802-001-180MP
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Try this site:
http://www.lucent8.com/cgi-bin/CIC_store.cgi?

-----Original Message-----
From: John Loiselle [mailto:jloise...@integralaccess.com]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 8:28 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: BSP 802-001-180MP


I am trying to locate document BSP 802-001-180MP referenced in Section 6 of
SBC Local Exchange Carriers TP76200MP dated December 30, 1998.  Does any one
have information on how I can obtain this document?  Thanks in advance.

John P. Loiselle
Principal Compliance Engineer
Integral Access, Inc.
6 Omni Way
Chelmsford, MA 01824
ph: (978) 256 8833 x228
fax: (978) 256 8077
email: jloise...@integralaccess.com

From - Mon May 08 19:39:18 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: John Loiselle 
         <imceamailto-jloiselle+40integralaccess+2e...@excelsus-tech.com>
Cc: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: BSP 802-001-180MP
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John,

http://www.lucent8.com/cgi-bin/CIC_store.cgi
>From this site:
 =20
Title:  PROTECTIVE GROUNDING SYSTEMS GENERAL GROUNDING REQUIREMENTS FOR
COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS IN CENTRAL OFFICES RADIO STATIONS AND OTHER STRUCTU=
RES
POWER SYSTEMS=20
Document Number: 802-001-180=20
Issue: 10=20
Summary: NUMERICAL INDEX -- DIVISION 802~~~EQUIPMENT DESIGN AND GENERAL
EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS~~~AND ENGINEERING INFORMATION~~~POWER SYSTEMS
INDEXES, GENERAL INFORMATION, AND MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENTS Protective
Grounding Systems -- General Grounding Requirements for Communication
Systems in Central Offices, Radio Stations and Other Structures>=20

Qty Media Type Price Availability=20
 *PAPER 13.09 Ships within 2-3 weeks=20
 *Electronic (PDF Format) 10.47 Available to Download=20

Copyright =A9 1998,1999 Lucent Technologies. All rights reserved.=20
=20

From - Thu May 11 04:51:56 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: John Loiselle <jloise...@integralaccess.com>
Cc: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: BSP 802-001-180MP
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:29:49 -0700 
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In addition to the AT&T Customer Information Center (CIC) there is also a
section in the back of the Telcordia publications catalog that gives the
address and phone numbers for ordering RBOC publications directly from the
RBOCs.
Don

-----Original Message-----
From: John Loiselle [mailto:jloise...@integralaccess.com]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 8:28 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: BSP 802-001-180MP


I am trying to locate document BSP 802-001-180MP referenced in Section 6 of
SBC Local Exchange Carriers TP76200MP dated December 30, 1998.  Does any one
have information on how I can obtain this document?  Thanks in advance.

John P. Loiselle
Principal Compliance Engineer
Integral Access, Inc.
6 Omni Way
Chelmsford, MA 01824
ph: (978) 256 8833 x228
fax: (978) 256 8077
email: jloise...@integralaccess.com

From - Mon May 15 13:01:27 2000
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To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: protection switching systems requirement
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:16:13 -0400
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Hello All,

Has anyone heard of a Telcordia requirement of 50ms for reporting to the
system that a redundant card has been added or removed (hot-swap)?

Thanks,

Jack
___________________________________________
Jack Murphy, Compliance Engineer
Quantum Bridge, One High St, N. Andover, MA 01845
tel-978 688-9100x555, fax-978 688-1363
jmur...@quantumbridge.com

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From: David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
To: "EMC-PSTC (E-mail)" <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org>,
        "Nebs List Serve (E-mail)" <nebs@world.std.com>,
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Subject: Fanning the Flames
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Hi All,
I'm not sure where this question fits, so I'm sending it to all.  Excuse the
redundancy, as I'm sure many of you receive mail from all of these lists.

An interesting question came up today regarding a fantray design and using a
thermal shutdown to turn off power to the fans when it is presumed obvious
that there may be a fire.  It sounds like a great idea to me.  However, it
will be a lot easier to sell if there is a requirement somewhere to support
it.

Question: Does anyone know of a specific requirement to control fans in the
event of a fire?  This can from any source, i.e. ETSI, ANSI, or Telcordia,
etc.

Thanks and have a great weekend!
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
(503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com

From - Thu Jun 01 05:17:09 2000
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Dave,

I am not aware of any 'specific requirement' for shutting down fans in the
event of a fire, but I do know from my NEBS testing, that it is a worthwhile
idea. It reduces the airflow in your product thereby reducing the intake of
oxygen, as well as minimizing the progression of the fire from one shelf to
the next. With the limited oxygen intake (along with the smoke not being so
easily exhausted) the smoke inside the product will choke the fire out.
Something to consider . . . 

John Juhasz
Fiber Options
Bohemia, NY


-----Original Message-----
From: David Spencer [mailto:dspen...@oresis.com]
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 7:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail); Nebs List Serve (E-mail); TREG (E-mail)
Subject: Fanning the Flames


Hi All,
I'm not sure where this question fits, so I'm sending it to all.  Excuse the
redundancy, as I'm sure many of you receive mail from all of these lists.

An interesting question came up today regarding a fantray design and using a
thermal shutdown to turn off power to the fans when it is presumed obvious
that there may be a fire.  It sounds like a great idea to me.  However, it
will be a lot easier to sell if there is a requirement somewhere to support
it.

Question: Does anyone know of a specific requirement to control fans in the
event of a fire?  This can from any source, i.e. ETSI, ANSI, or Telcordia,
etc.

Thanks and have a great weekend!
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
(503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFCA31.DFBB8A22
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2650.12">
<TITLE>RE: Fanning the Flames</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dave,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I am not aware of any 'specific requirement' for =
shutting down fans in the event of a fire, but I do know from my NEBS =
testing, that it is a worthwhile idea. It reduces the airflow in your =
product thereby reducing the intake of oxygen, as well as minimizing =
the progression of the fire from one shelf to the next. With the =
limited oxygen intake (along with the smoke not being so easily =
exhausted) the smoke inside the product will choke the fire =
out.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Something to consider . . . </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>John Juhasz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fiber Options</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bohemia, NY</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: David Spencer [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dspen...@oresis.com";>mailto:dspen...@oresis.com</A>]</FON=
T>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 7:18 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail); Nebs List Serve (E-mail); =
TREG (E-mail)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Fanning the Flames</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi All,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm not sure where this question fits, so I'm =
sending it to all.&nbsp; Excuse the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>redundancy, as I'm sure many of you receive mail =
from all of these lists.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>An interesting question came up today regarding a =
fantray design and using a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>thermal shutdown to turn off power to the fans when =
it is presumed obvious</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>that there may be a fire.&nbsp; It sounds like a =
great idea to me.&nbsp; However, it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>will be a lot easier to sell if there is a =
requirement somewhere to support</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>it.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Question: Does anyone know of a specific requirement =
to control fans in the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>event of a fire?&nbsp; This can from any source, =
i.e. ETSI, ANSI, or Telcordia,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>etc.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks and have a great weekend!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dave Spencer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Compliance Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Oresis Communications, Inc.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR&nbsp; =
97006</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289&nbsp; Fax: =
(503)533-8233</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://www.oresis.com"; =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.oresis.com</A>&nbsp; =
dspen...@oresis.com</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01BFCA31.DFBB8A22--

From - Thu Jun 01 05:17:17 2000
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000  8:55 -0400
From: "Eric Petitpierre" <eric.petitpie...@pulse.com>
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Subject: Re: Fanning the Flames
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     On 5/30/00, Dave spencer wrote:
     
>An interesting question came up today regarding a fantray design and using a 
>thermal shutdown to turn off power to the fans when it is presumed obvious 
>that there may be a fire.  It sounds like a great idea to me.  However, it 
>will be a lot easier to sell if there is a requirement somewhere to support 
>it.
     
>Question: Does anyone know of a specific requirement to control fans in the 
>event of a fire?  This can from any source, i.e. ETSI, ANSI, or Telcordia, 
>etc.
     
     There us no requirement that I am aware of to control the fans.
     As you may be aware, some of the RBOC's such as Bell Atlantic,
     have requested criteria beyond what is asked for in GR-63.
     
     For example, if fans did blow out the fire, they would want to know 
     what happens when there is a fire AND the fans are disabled....Not 
     fair, you may say, but that's the way it goes.  The arguement there is 
     suppose the fire disabled the fan control during the beginning of the 
     test?
     
     Bottom line, I would not use a fan to blow out the flames unless you 
     are confident your equipment will pass with fans off as well.  In 
     which case why use a fan if your equipment does not need it?
     
     Eric Petitpierre
     Pulsecom
     Herndon,VA
     eric.petitpie...@pulse.com

From - Thu Jun 01 05:17:24 2000
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From: Doug <dmck...@gte.net>
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Never heard of it.  

The only place I've ever heard of actual "flame" 
sensing was some company providing such sensors 
for companies which handled, mfr'd, shipped 
combustibles.  Mixing and loading dock areas. 

Resulted not from any requirement either, although 
I've no experience in the combustibles area. 

Sort of interesting.  One of the problems they had 
to solve involved burning alcohol.  Alcohol burns 
nearly invisible.  The other was differentiating 
between an actual flame and something like a mirror 
from a truck reflecting the sun on a clear day. 

Bad stuff at race tracks when there's an accident.  
Emergency crews can't see it and can run right into 
it.  So they end up spraying the entire area where 
they think it's burning. 

Although, come to think of it ...  

You might cite the flame spread test in GR-63.  
Such a shut down would prevent the spread of "heat" 
as well as flame.  Maybe a little bit of a stretch 
of the standard, but what the hey.  The RBOCs are 
very sensitive to flame spread.  And I'm sure they'd 
at least listen to any attempt to prevent spread. 

You'd have to define and defend what the temp of a 
direct flame situation (something in your product 
burning) or indirect flame (something next to your 
product burning) would be, I guess.  At least that's 
what I'd try to do. 

And, like Eric said, there certainly are RBOCs out 
there with their own requirements above and beyond 
the wording of the standard.  

Keep in mind that the Bellcore specs are not like 
the public standards such as UL, FCC, ...  which are 
ultimately enforced by law.  The Bellcore standards 
are private standards which are not enforced by law 
but by customer contract.  Customers can pick and 
choose or modify or delete parts of them as they 
see fit for their own situation. 

Regards, Doug McKean 

David Spencer wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I'm not sure where this question fits, so I'm sending it to all.  Excuse the
> redundancy, as I'm sure many of you receive mail from all of these lists.
> 
> An interesting question came up today regarding a fantray design and using a
> thermal shutdown to turn off power to the fans when it is presumed obvious
> that there may be a fire.  It sounds like a great idea to me.  However, it
> will be a lot easier to sell if there is a requirement somewhere to support
> it.
> 
> Question: Does anyone know of a specific requirement to control fans in the
> event of a fire?  This can from any source, i.e. ETSI, ANSI, or Telcordia,
> etc.

From - Fri Jun 09 05:18:48 2000
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From: Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: NEBS 2000
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Does anyone have a feel for the requirement to meet NEBS 2000 metric frame
dimensions (GR-63 section 3, which states that they may be used in place of
the spatial requirements in section 2)? 

Are any of the RBOCs asking for it yet (I couldn't find anything in rev. 10
of Bell Atlantic's requirements)? 

Presumably at some point 19" will no longer be acceptable, 23.6" or 600mm
being the smallest acceptable width.


Dave Wilson
Senior Compliance Engineer
Alidian Networks Inc.
Tel: 408-273-4787
Fax: 408-273-4800

From - Fri Jun 09 05:20:10 2000
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Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:33:15 -0700
From: Doug <dmck...@gte.net>
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To: Nebs Discussion Group <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: The -48VDC CO rail ... 
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Two questions ... 

1. Would anyone care to relate personal experiences, 
   anecdotes, concerning the stability or non-stability 
   of the -48VDC rail in a CO?  

   Just how bad is it? 

2. I think I'm finally understanding the meaning of the 
   upper Bellcore range of 56 vdc.  UL testing would require 
   +6% above 56 which puts it right at 60VDC.  Any change 
   increasing the upper limit in the spec would push the 
   voltage into the hazardous voltage area ( >60VDC ) changing 
   all the test limits.  Do I have that correct? 

   Where'd the lower Bellcore voltage spec some from? 

Regards, Doug McKean

From - Sun Jun 11 09:17:36 2000
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Subject: Re: The -48VDC CO rail ...
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Although the upper range conveniently puts you at the magic 60V limit, I
believe that the 56 volts actually comes from the maximum float voltage
anticipated for some battery plants.  Remember, the equipment in a CO
normally operates at the float voltage, not the nominal battery voltage.
The lower limit anticipates the maximum expected drop in battery voltage
when a CO loses commercial power and before backup generators can kick in.

Randy Ivans
Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
Melville, NY 11747
TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
FAX: 631-439-6096
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email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com




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From - Wed Jun 14 05:17:58 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: The -48VDC CO rail ... 
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:21:49 -0700
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-46vdc to -56vdc with an average float of -52vdc in my 30+ years of Bell
System experience.

Personally, I have never seen a C.O. voltage higher than -54vdc nor lower
than -48vdc.
(Except for a special -72vdc buss for range extension that is no longer
used.)

Don

Don Robert House, MTS
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
(760) 476-1511 Office
(760) 476-1519 FAX
(760) 420-3016 Cellular
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug [mailto:dmck...@gte.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 9:33 AM
To: Nebs Discussion Group
Subject: The -48VDC CO rail ... 


Two questions ... 

1. Would anyone care to relate personal experiences, 
   anecdotes, concerning the stability or non-stability 
   of the -48VDC rail in a CO?  

   Just how bad is it? 

2. I think I'm finally understanding the meaning of the 
   upper Bellcore range of 56 vdc.  UL testing would require 
   +6% above 56 which puts it right at 60VDC.  Any change 
   increasing the upper limit in the spec would push the 
   voltage into the hazardous voltage area ( >60VDC ) changing 
   all the test limits.  Do I have that correct? 

   Where'd the lower Bellcore voltage spec some from? 

Regards, Doug McKean

From - Wed Jun 14 05:18:04 2000
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Subject: Re: The -48VDC CO rail ...
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What about the charging voltage put on the batteries ?
Wouldn't that be higher ?
Would they remove the batteries from equipment during this charging period ?

Don House wrote:

> -46vdc to -56vdc with an average float of -52vdc in my 30+ years of Bell
> System experience.
>
> Personally, I have never seen a C.O. voltage higher than -54vdc nor lower
> than -48vdc.
> (Except for a special -72vdc buss for range extension that is no longer
> used.)
>
> Don
>
> Don Robert House, MTS
> Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
> (760) 476-1511 Office
> (760) 476-1519 FAX
> (760) 420-3016 Cellular
> URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug [mailto:dmck...@gte.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 9:33 AM
> To: Nebs Discussion Group
> Subject: The -48VDC CO rail ...
>
> Two questions ...
>
> 1. Would anyone care to relate personal experiences,
>    anecdotes, concerning the stability or non-stability
>    of the -48VDC rail in a CO?
>
>    Just how bad is it?
>
> 2. I think I'm finally understanding the meaning of the
>    upper Bellcore range of 56 vdc.  UL testing would require
>    +6% above 56 which puts it right at 60VDC.  Any change
>    increasing the upper limit in the spec would push the
>    voltage into the hazardous voltage area ( >60VDC ) changing
>    all the test limits.  Do I have that correct?
>
>    Where'd the lower Bellcore voltage spec some from?
>
> Regards, Doug McKean

From - Wed Jun 14 05:18:11 2000
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From: "Nix, Rodney" <r...@tollgrade.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: The -48VDC CO rail ...
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52Vdc is the nominal charging voltage for a 48Vdc battery plant.
Occasionally, as part of the maintenance of the plant, this voltage will be
raised to equalize the individual battery cell voltages.  This is equalize
charge voltage of 54Vdc was used primarily with lead-acid battery plants and
is used less frequently now that so-called maintenance-free batteries are
the norm.

Rodney B. Nix
Sr. Hardware Validation Engineer
Tollgrade Communications, Inc.
493 Nixon Road
Cheswick, PA 15024


 -----Original Message-----
From:   Bruce Touzel [mailto:btou...@acc.com] 
Sent:   Monday, June 12, 2000 2:58 PM
To:     nebs@world.std.com; dho...@excelsus-tech.com
Subject:        Re: The -48VDC CO rail ...

What about the charging voltage put on the batteries ?
Wouldn't that be higher ?
Would they remove the batteries from equipment during this charging period ?

Don House wrote:

> -46vdc to -56vdc with an average float of -52vdc in my 30+ years of Bell
> System experience.
>
> Personally, I have never seen a C.O. voltage higher than -54vdc nor lower
> than -48vdc.
> (Except for a special -72vdc buss for range extension that is no longer
> used.)
>
> Don
>
> Don Robert House, MTS
> Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
> (760) 476-1511 Office
> (760) 476-1519 FAX
> (760) 420-3016 Cellular
> URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug [mailto:dmck...@gte.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 9:33 AM
> To: Nebs Discussion Group
> Subject: The -48VDC CO rail ...
>
> Two questions ...
>
> 1. Would anyone care to relate personal experiences,
>    anecdotes, concerning the stability or non-stability
>    of the -48VDC rail in a CO?
>
>    Just how bad is it?
>
> 2. I think I'm finally understanding the meaning of the
>    upper Bellcore range of 56 vdc.  UL testing would require
>    +6% above 56 which puts it right at 60VDC.  Any change
>    increasing the upper limit in the spec would push the
>    voltage into the hazardous voltage area ( >60VDC ) changing
>    all the test limits.  Do I have that correct?
>
>    Where'd the lower Bellcore voltage spec some from?
>
> Regards, Doug McKean

From - Wed Jun 14 05:18:12 2000
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thanks

"Nix, Rodney" wrote:

> 52Vdc is the nominal charging voltage for a 48Vdc battery plant.
> Occasionally, as part of the maintenance of the plant, this voltage will be
> raised to equalize the individual battery cell voltages.  This is equalize
> charge voltage of 54Vdc was used primarily with lead-acid battery plants and
> is used less frequently now that so-called maintenance-free batteries are
> the norm.
>
> Rodney B. Nix
> Sr. Hardware Validation Engineer
> Tollgrade Communications, Inc.
> 493 Nixon Road
> Cheswick, PA 15024
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From:   Bruce Touzel [mailto:btou...@acc.com]
> Sent:   Monday, June 12, 2000 2:58 PM
> To:     nebs@world.std.com; dho...@excelsus-tech.com
> Subject:        Re: The -48VDC CO rail ...
>
> What about the charging voltage put on the batteries ?
> Wouldn't that be higher ?
> Would they remove the batteries from equipment during this charging period ?
>
> Don House wrote:
>
> > -46vdc to -56vdc with an average float of -52vdc in my 30+ years of Bell
> > System experience.
> >
> > Personally, I have never seen a C.O. voltage higher than -54vdc nor lower
> > than -48vdc.
> > (Except for a special -72vdc buss for range extension that is no longer
> > used.)
> >
> > Don
> >
> > Don Robert House, MTS
> > Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
> > (760) 476-1511 Office
> > (760) 476-1519 FAX
> > (760) 420-3016 Cellular
> > URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Doug [mailto:dmck...@gte.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 9:33 AM
> > To: Nebs Discussion Group
> > Subject: The -48VDC CO rail ...
> >
> > Two questions ...
> >
> > 1. Would anyone care to relate personal experiences,
> >    anecdotes, concerning the stability or non-stability
> >    of the -48VDC rail in a CO?
> >
> >    Just how bad is it?
> >
> > 2. I think I'm finally understanding the meaning of the
> >    upper Bellcore range of 56 vdc.  UL testing would require
> >    +6% above 56 which puts it right at 60VDC.  Any change
> >    increasing the upper limit in the spec would push the
> >    voltage into the hazardous voltage area ( >60VDC ) changing
> >    all the test limits.  Do I have that correct?
> >
> >    Where'd the lower Bellcore voltage spec some from?
> >
> > Regards, Doug McKean

From - Wed Jun 14 05:18:38 2000
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Message-ID: <D1BB06A1EFA3D211A830009027289AEA261F56@wench>
From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
To: "'NEBS Newsgroup'" <NEBS@world.std.com>
Subject: DS3 Lightning
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        I am hearing mixed opinions of whether a DS3 Coax interface falls
under the scope of interfaces to be subjected to GR-1089 4.5.9 Intrabuilding
Lightning Surge.  The way I interpret the standard is that it does fall
under the scope as there is no clear definition, that I could find, for
"Telecommunications Port".  I've seen verbiage citing examples, but no clear
definition.  This interface will not connect to outside plant and I do wish
to claim shielded cables with grounds at both ends to avoid the testing.
The scope of Section 4.6 clearly eliminates DS3 as part of that section.
The program team is against testing it and I would not like to see a
prospective customer reject the report.  Any and all feedback and opinions
from the group (RBOC's especially) would be greatly appreciated.

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>> 

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com

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Subject: Re: DS3 Lightning
References: <D1BB06A1EFA3D211A830009027289AEA261F56@wench>
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What I learned from a test lab is the RBOC's have no interest in surging
interfaces using coaxial cables.

Joe Finlayson wrote:

>         I am hearing mixed opinions of whether a DS3 Coax interface falls
> under the scope of interfaces to be subjected to GR-1089 4.5.9 Intrabuilding
> Lightning Surge.  The way I interpret the standard is that it does fall
> under the scope as there is no clear definition, that I could find, for
> "Telecommunications Port".  I've seen verbiage citing examples, but no clear
> definition.  This interface will not connect to outside plant and I do wish
> to claim shielded cables with grounds at both ends to avoid the testing.
> The scope of Section 4.6 clearly eliminates DS3 as part of that section.
> The program team is against testing it and I would not like to see a
> prospective customer reject the report.  Any and all feedback and opinions
> from the group (RBOC's especially) would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thx,
>
> Joe
>
> *********************************
>  <<...>>
>
> Joe Finlayson
> Manager, Compliance Engineering
> Telica, Inc.
> 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> Marlboro, MA 01752
> Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
> Fax:    (508) 480-0922
> Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
> Web:    www.telica.com

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From: JIM WIESE <jim.wi...@adtran.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: DS3 Lightning
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
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If both ends are intended to be grounded and you state this it in your
documentation, intra-building lightning is exempt on a DS-3.


Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 140000
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com 

> ----------
> From:         Joe Finlayson[SMTP:jfinlay...@telica.com]
> Reply To:     nebs@world.std.com
> Sent:         Monday, June 12, 2000 6:00 PM
> To:   'NEBS Newsgroup'
> Subject:      DS3 Lightning
> 
> 
>       I am hearing mixed opinions of whether a DS3 Coax interface falls
> under the scope of interfaces to be subjected to GR-1089 4.5.9
> Intrabuilding
> Lightning Surge.  The way I interpret the standard is that it does fall
> under the scope as there is no clear definition, that I could find, for
> "Telecommunications Port".  I've seen verbiage citing examples, but no
> clear
> definition.  This interface will not connect to outside plant and I do
> wish
> to claim shielded cables with grounds at both ends to avoid the testing.
> The scope of Section 4.6 clearly eliminates DS3 as part of that section.
> The program team is against testing it and I would not like to see a
> prospective customer reject the report.  Any and all feedback and opinions
> from the group (RBOC's especially) would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thx,
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
> *********************************
>  <<...>> 
> 
> Joe Finlayson
> Manager, Compliance Engineering
> Telica, Inc.
> 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> Marlboro, MA 01752
> Tel:  (508) 480-0909 x212
> Fax:  (508) 480-0922
> Email:        jfinlay...@telica.com
> Web:  www.telica.com
> 

From - Wed Jun 14 05:20:59 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: DS3 Lightning
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:01:53 -0700
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One rarely used but real application is where the DS3 coax is run between
two adjacent central offices across an alley.  This was the case in Chicago
where the DS3 was a link between AT&T Long Lines and Illinois Bell.  Because
of possible ground loops the coax was grounded only at one end.  Normally
this would be a fiber link, but these things do happen occasionally.

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon D. Curtis [mailto:j...@curtis-straus.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:34 AM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Re: DS3 Lightning


DS-3 is also exempt for other reasons.

Section 4.5 specifies application of surge and overvoltage to "paired-cable
interfaces."  Further the criteria of this section apply to "each
telecommunications port connecting to an outside plant pair"  DS3 is not a
paired interface.

They are discussed in section 4.6 which is entitled "Criteria for equipment
interfacing with coaxial cable ports."  This section replaces section 4.5
for
coaxial cables.  It also states "these criteria are not intended for...
conventional telecommunications services, such as DS3."

All this leaves DS3 without much of a home in section 4 of 1089.  I would
assume
that the long duration of the deployment of DS3 has left the RBOCs with a
good
strategy of deployment of DS3 (adequate protection devices at the building
entry) such that they are not experiencing problems with DS3, thus no
additional
regulation is needed.  Until we get additional guidance from the RBOCs or
Telcordia, it would seem the thing to do is to report when DS3 ports exist
in a
product so that future revisions of the product may be subject to
requirements
when, and if, they become necessary.

I agree with Jim that if the DS3 stays within the building and the shield is
connected to ground at both ends that no testing would be required under 4.5
(if
you consider that applicable at all).  I do however believe that DS3 may
leave
the building and that there exist implementations which do not ground the
shield
at one end.

-Jon Curtis

JIM WIESE wrote:

> If both ends are intended to be grounded and you state this it in your
> documentation, intra-building lightning is exempt on a DS-3.
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Wiese
> NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
> ADTRAN, INC.
> 901 Explorer Blvd.
> P.O. Box 140000
> Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
> 256-963-8431
> 256-963-8250 fax
> jim.wi...@adtran.com
>
> > ----------
> > From:         Joe Finlayson[SMTP:jfinlay...@telica.com]
> > Reply To:     nebs@world.std.com
> > Sent:         Monday, June 12, 2000 6:00 PM
> > To:   'NEBS Newsgroup'
> > Subject:      DS3 Lightning
> >
> >
> >       I am hearing mixed opinions of whether a DS3 Coax interface falls
> > under the scope of interfaces to be subjected to GR-1089 4.5.9
> > Intrabuilding
> > Lightning Surge.  The way I interpret the standard is that it does fall
> > under the scope as there is no clear definition, that I could find, for
> > "Telecommunications Port".  I've seen verbiage citing examples, but no
> > clear
> > definition.  This interface will not connect to outside plant and I do
> > wish
> > to claim shielded cables with grounds at both ends to avoid the testing.
> > The scope of Section 4.6 clearly eliminates DS3 as part of that section.
> > The program team is against testing it and I would not like to see a
> > prospective customer reject the report.  Any and all feedback and
opinions
> > from the group (RBOC's especially) would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thx,
> >
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > *********************************
> >  <<...>>
> >
> > Joe Finlayson
> > Manager, Compliance Engineering
> > Telica, Inc.
> > 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> > Marlboro, MA 01752
> > Tel:  (508) 480-0909 x212
> > Fax:  (508) 480-0922
> > Email:        jfinlay...@telica.com
> > Web:  www.telica.com
> >

--
Jon D. Curtis, P.E.

Director of Engineering
Curtis-Straus LLC

One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC,
Product Safety, and Telecom Testing.
527 Great Road
Littleton, MA 01460 USA
Voice 978-486-8880  Fax 978-486-8828
email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com
WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM

From - Wed Jun 14 05:21:01 2000
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:01:52 -0700
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This is also common in UK where British Telecom for example, will request that
your E3 interface be able to ground or float the bnc shield.

Don House wrote:

> One rarely used but real application is where the DS3 coax is run between
> two adjacent central offices across an alley.  This was the case in Chicago
> where the DS3 was a link between AT&T Long Lines and Illinois Bell.  Because
> of possible ground loops the coax was grounded only at one end.  Normally
> this would be a fiber link, but these things do happen occasionally.
>
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon D. Curtis [mailto:j...@curtis-straus.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:34 AM
> To: nebs@world.std.com
> Subject: Re: DS3 Lightning
>
> DS-3 is also exempt for other reasons.
>
> Section 4.5 specifies application of surge and overvoltage to "paired-cable
> interfaces."  Further the criteria of this section apply to "each
> telecommunications port connecting to an outside plant pair"  DS3 is not a
> paired interface.
>
> They are discussed in section 4.6 which is entitled "Criteria for equipment
> interfacing with coaxial cable ports."  This section replaces section 4.5
> for
> coaxial cables.  It also states "these criteria are not intended for...
> conventional telecommunications services, such as DS3."
>
> All this leaves DS3 without much of a home in section 4 of 1089.  I would
> assume
> that the long duration of the deployment of DS3 has left the RBOCs with a
> good
> strategy of deployment of DS3 (adequate protection devices at the building
> entry) such that they are not experiencing problems with DS3, thus no
> additional
> regulation is needed.  Until we get additional guidance from the RBOCs or
> Telcordia, it would seem the thing to do is to report when DS3 ports exist
> in a
> product so that future revisions of the product may be subject to
> requirements
> when, and if, they become necessary.
>
> I agree with Jim that if the DS3 stays within the building and the shield is
> connected to ground at both ends that no testing would be required under 4.5
> (if
> you consider that applicable at all).  I do however believe that DS3 may
> leave
> the building and that there exist implementations which do not ground the
> shield
> at one end.
>
> -Jon Curtis
>
> JIM WIESE wrote:
>
> > If both ends are intended to be grounded and you state this it in your
> > documentation, intra-building lightning is exempt on a DS-3.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Jim Wiese
> > NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
> > ADTRAN, INC.
> > 901 Explorer Blvd.
> > P.O. Box 140000
> > Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
> > 256-963-8431
> > 256-963-8250 fax
> > jim.wi...@adtran.com
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From:         Joe Finlayson[SMTP:jfinlay...@telica.com]
> > > Reply To:     nebs@world.std.com
> > > Sent:         Monday, June 12, 2000 6:00 PM
> > > To:   'NEBS Newsgroup'
> > > Subject:      DS3 Lightning
> > >
> > >
> > >       I am hearing mixed opinions of whether a DS3 Coax interface falls
> > > under the scope of interfaces to be subjected to GR-1089 4.5.9
> > > Intrabuilding
> > > Lightning Surge.  The way I interpret the standard is that it does fall
> > > under the scope as there is no clear definition, that I could find, for
> > > "Telecommunications Port".  I've seen verbiage citing examples, but no
> > > clear
> > > definition.  This interface will not connect to outside plant and I do
> > > wish
> > > to claim shielded cables with grounds at both ends to avoid the testing.
> > > The scope of Section 4.6 clearly eliminates DS3 as part of that section.
> > > The program team is against testing it and I would not like to see a
> > > prospective customer reject the report.  Any and all feedback and
> opinions
> > > from the group (RBOC's especially) would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thx,
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > *********************************
> > >  <<...>>
> > >
> > > Joe Finlayson
> > > Manager, Compliance Engineering
> > > Telica, Inc.
> > > 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> > > Marlboro, MA 01752
> > > Tel:  (508) 480-0909 x212
> > > Fax:  (508) 480-0922
> > > Email:        jfinlay...@telica.com
> > > Web:  www.telica.com
> > >
>
> --
> Jon D. Curtis, P.E.
>
> Director of Engineering
> Curtis-Straus LLC
>
> One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC,
> Product Safety, and Telecom Testing.
> 527 Great Road
> Littleton, MA 01460 USA
> Voice 978-486-8880  Fax 978-486-8828
> email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com
> WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM

From - Sat Jun 17 06:07:40 2000
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From: plaw...@west.net (Patrick Lawler)
To: EMC-PSTC <emc-p...@ieee.org>, t...@world.std.com, nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Bellcore GP-1089 emissions testing: LISN test setup
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:34:42 -0700
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I'm looking through Bellcore GR-1089 Issue 2 Revision 1 for details on the test
setup for conducted emissions testing.

I was under the impression that some of the measurements involved use of large
RF bypass caps to ground, and the interference currents through the capacitor
were measured.
While I found spec limits and test setups for current probe-style measurements,
all the figures simply display a power input network marked 'LISN', which I
assume to be the standard 50 ohm network.  I can't find a reference that
explicitly discusses the use of an RF bypass cap.

Could someone point me to the appropriate section?
----
Patrick Lawler
plaw...@west.net

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From: Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        EMC-PSTC
         <emc-p...@ieee.org>, t...@world.std.com
Subject: RE: Bellcore GP-1089 emissions testing: LISN test setup
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I seem to remember the caps were specified in an earlier version of the
standard, and are no longer required (issue 2, rev 1 February 1999). My
understanding is that the LISN is that used for CISPR measurements.

Dave Wilson
Alidian Networks Inc.

                -----Original Message-----
                From:   plaw...@west.net [mailto:plaw...@west.net]
                Sent:   Thursday, June 15, 2000 10:35 AM
                To:     EMC-PSTC; t...@world.std.com; nebs@world.std.com
                Subject:        Bellcore GP-1089 emissions testing: LISN
test setup

                I'm looking through Bellcore GR-1089 Issue 2 Revision 1 for
details on the test
                setup for conducted emissions testing.

                I was under the impression that some of the measurements
involved use of large
                RF bypass caps to ground, and the interference currents
through the capacitor
                were measured.
                While I found spec limits and test setups for current
probe-style measurements,
                all the figures simply display a power input network marked
'LISN', which I
                assume to be the standard 50 ohm network.  I can't find a
reference that
                explicitly discusses the use of an RF bypass cap.

                Could someone point me to the appropriate section?
                ----
                Patrick Lawler
                plaw...@west.net

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Hi Patrick, 
The old GR-1089-CORE Bellcore Standard Issue 1, Nov.1994 required the large
10uF caps.
The new standard does not require the caps.

Best Regards
Edward F.O'Toole
Intertek Testing Services


-----Original Message-----
From: plaw...@west.net [mailto:plaw...@west.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 1:35 PM
To: EMC-PSTC; t...@world.std.com; nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Bellcore GP-1089 emissions testing: LISN test setup



I'm looking through Bellcore GR-1089 Issue 2 Revision 1 for details on the
test
setup for conducted emissions testing.

I was under the impression that some of the measurements involved use of
large
RF bypass caps to ground, and the interference currents through the
capacitor
were measured.
While I found spec limits and test setups for current probe-style
measurements,
all the figures simply display a power input network marked 'LISN', which I
assume to be the standard 50 ohm network.  I can't find a reference that
explicitly discusses the use of an RF bypass cap.

Could someone point me to the appropriate section?
----
Patrick Lawler
plaw...@west.net

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Patrick -

Bypass caps were used in an older version of 1089, and subsequently replaced
with LISNs in the current version.

Regards,

Mark Gill, P.E.
EMC/Safety/NEBS Design
Nortel Networks - RTP, NC, USA



> -----Original Message-----
> From: plaw...@west.net [SMTP:plaw...@west.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 1:35 PM
> To:   EMC-PSTC; t...@world.std.com; nebs@world.std.com
> Subject:      Bellcore GP-1089 emissions testing: LISN test setup
> 
> 
> I'm looking through Bellcore GR-1089 Issue 2 Revision 1 for details on the
> test
> setup for conducted emissions testing.
> 
> I was under the impression that some of the measurements involved use of
> large
> RF bypass caps to ground, and the interference currents through the
> capacitor
> were measured.
> While I found spec limits and test setups for current probe-style
> measurements,
> all the figures simply display a power input network marked 'LISN', which
> I
> assume to be the standard 50 ohm network.  I can't find a reference that
> explicitly discusses the use of an RF bypass cap.
> 
> Could someone point me to the appropriate section?
> ----
> Patrick Lawler
> plaw...@west.net
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
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<TITLE>RE: Bellcore GP-1089 emissions testing: LISN test setup</TITLE>
</HEAD>
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<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Patrick -</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Bypass caps were =
used in an older version of 1089, and subsequently replaced with LISNs =
in the current version.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Regards,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Mark Gill, =
P.E.</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">EMC/Safety/NEBS =
Design</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Nortel Networks - =
RTP, NC, USA</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">plaw...@west.net [SMTP:plaw...@west.net]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Thursday, June 15, 2000 1:35 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">EMC-PSTC; t...@world.std.com; nebs@world.std.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Bellcore GP-1089 emissions testing: =
LISN test setup</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'm looking through Bellcore GR-1089 =
Issue 2 Revision 1 for details on the test</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">setup for conducted emissions =
testing.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I was under the impression that some =
of the measurements involved use of large</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">RF bypass caps to ground, and the =
interference currents through the capacitor</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">were measured.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">While I found spec limits and test =
setups for current probe-style measurements,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">all the figures simply display a =
power input network marked 'LISN', which I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">assume to be the standard 50 ohm =
network.&nbsp; I can't find a reference that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">explicitly discusses the use of an RF =
bypass cap.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Could someone point me to the =
appropriate section?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Patrick Lawler</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">plaw...@west.net</FONT>
</P>

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From - Sat Jun 17 06:08:18 2000
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From: plaw...@west.net (Patrick Lawler)
To: t...@world.std.com, nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Re: Bellcore GP-1089 emissions testing: LISN test setup
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Thanks to all who responded.

After hearing this, it's opened up a whole new set of questions on
Bellcore conducted emissions tests!

1) Standard LISNs do not have 50 ohm loads on their RF port (the EMI
receiver and a 50 ohm terminator take care of this).  I don't see this
addressed in the Bellcore spec.
Are 50 ohm terminators used on the LISNs?

2) It appears that some conducted emissions are tested twice with
different power source setups:
- Once with a voltage measurement from a LISN over 0.45-30MHz.
(Requirment-Object List R3-5)
- Another time with a current probe measurement over 0.01-30MHz.
(Requirment-Object List R3-6)
Am I reading this correctly?

3) Changing from a "zero ohm" (bypass capacitor) network to a 50 ohm
network is a significant change.
Out of curiousity, were the limits altered as well?


On Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:08:16 -0400, Mark Gill
<gil...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
>Bypass caps were used in an older version of 1089, and subsequently replaced
>with LISNs in the current version.
>
>Regards,
>
>Mark Gill, P.E.
>EMC/Safety/NEBS Design
>Nortel Networks - RTP, NC, USA
----
Patrick Lawler
plaw...@west.net

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Subject: GR-1089 query
To: t...@world.std.com, nebs@world.std.com
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To all the audio members out there,

I've been asked a question regarding GR-1089 =A73.5.3c (voiceband noise).

The question is "The max noise level is shown as -20dBrnC.  Since this
would depend on codec gain set, do they actually mean dBrnC0 ?"

Any assistance with this question would be most appreciated. Also, I woul=
d
be interested in the correlation between dBrnc and dBrnc0.

Best regards,
Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com


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The parameter is normally stated in dBrnC, the actual measurement is
expressed in dBrnC0 depending on the TLP where the measurement is made.

dBrnC - Weighted noise power in dBrn, measured by a noise measurement set
with C-message weighting.
dBrnC0 - Noise power in dBrnC referred to or measured at a zero transmiss=
ion
level point.
--- Telephony's Dictionary by Graham Langley, April 1986, published by
Telephony Publishing, Chicago

"...power measurements are usually expressed in deciBels relative to one
milliwatt (dBm) or in deciBels relative to reference noise, weighted or
unweighted (dBrn or dBrnC).  Further, such expressions aare often referre=
d
to zero (0) Transmission Level Point (TLP) and are expressed as dBm0, dBr=
n0,
dBrnC0. Often the measurement of a single-frequency interference, such as=
 a
power-frequency harmonic, is made in dBm and translated into dBm0 or dBrn=
C0.
Some wave analyzers designed for such measurements aare calibrated direct=
ly
in dBrn.  Some interfaces which cover a broad specrum are measured in the
voiceband in dBrnC and translated into dBrnC0.  The measurement may be ma=
de
in dBm if the interference is being evaluated for wideband signal
impairment.  If the interference has impulse noise characteristics, the
measurement must account in some way for interference amplitude and
frequency of occurance.  The measurement is often expressed in counts per
minute, an evaluation of the average number of impulses measured in exces=
s
of a threshold value.  The threshold depends on the type of signal for wh=
ich
the interference is being evaluated and, of course, on the TLP at which t=
he
measurement is made."--- Chapter 17-4 NOISE AND CROSSTALK MEASUREMENTS, p=
age
437 of (the Red Book) Telecommunications Transmission Engineering Vol. 1
copyright 1977 by AT&T & Bell Labs, published by the Bell System Center f=
or
Technical Education.

I have more information in my library at home if you need it.  Hope this
helps.

Don

Don Robert House, MTS
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
(760) 476-1511 Office
(760) 476-1519 FAX
(760) 432-3397 Pager
New e-mail address: dho...@excelsus-tech.com
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Pickard [mailto:rpick...@hypercom.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 2:20 PM
To: t...@world.std.com; nebs@world.std.com
Subject: GR-1089 query


To all the audio members out there,

I've been asked a question regarding GR-1089 =A73.5.3c (voiceband noise).

The question is "The max noise level is shown as -20dBrnC.  Since this
would depend on codec gain set, do they actually mean dBrnC0 ?"

Any assistance with this question would be most appreciated. Also, I woul=
d
be interested in the correlation between dBrnc and dBrnc0.

Best regards,
Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com

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Subject: NEBS: Trans\Vib & ISTA standards (International Safe Transit Asso
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Group,


In addition to my NEBS GR-63 Transportation Vibration certification, I am
also handling meeting a Manufacturing Quality Engineering Spec called "ISTA
(International Safe Transit Association). Has anyone had any experience with
ISTA? Has anyone tried combining the most stringent requirements of each
spec into a single test script and perform one test for both standards? And
finally, do you know of any labs that are certified to test to both
standards....... preferably west of the Mississippi?

Thanks in advance,


Jeffrey Collins 
MTS, Principal Compliance Engineer
Ciena Core Switching Division
jcoll...@ciena.com
www.ciena.com


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You may want to try MET Labs . . . they are fully capable for GR-63, so they
may be able to integrate your other standard and they have a lab west of the
Mississippi.
http://www.metlabs.com/

John Juhasz
Fiber Options
Bohemia, NY

-----Original Message-----
From: Collins, Jeffrey [mailto:jcoll...@ciena.com]
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 9:02 PM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Cc: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: NEBS: Trans\Vib & ISTA standards (International Safe Transit
Asso ciation)



Group,


In addition to my NEBS GR-63 Transportation Vibration certification, I am
also handling meeting a Manufacturing Quality Engineering Spec called "ISTA
(International Safe Transit Association). Has anyone had any experience with
ISTA? Has anyone tried combining the most stringent requirements of each
spec into a single test script and perform one test for both standards? And
finally, do you know of any labs that are certified to test to both
standards....... preferably west of the Mississippi?

Thanks in advance,


Jeffrey Collins 
MTS, Principal Compliance Engineer
Ciena Core Switching Division
jcoll...@ciena.com
www.ciena.com


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<TITLE>RE: NEBS: Trans\Vib &amp; ISTA standards (International Safe =
Transit Asso ciation)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>You may want to try MET Labs . . . they are fully =
capable for GR-63, so they may be able to integrate your other standard =
and they have a lab west of the Mississippi.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://www.metlabs.com/"; =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.metlabs.com/</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>John Juhasz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fiber Options</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bohemia, NY</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Collins, Jeffrey [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:jcoll...@ciena.com";>mailto:jcoll...@ciena.com</A>]</FONT>=

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 9:02 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cc: 'nebs@world.std.com'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: NEBS: Trans\Vib &amp; ISTA standards =
(International Safe Transit</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Asso ciation)</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Group,</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In addition to my NEBS GR-63 Transportation Vibration =
certification, I am</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>also handling meeting a Manufacturing Quality =
Engineering Spec called &quot;ISTA</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(International Safe Transit Association). Has anyone =
had any experience with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>ISTA? Has anyone tried combining the most stringent =
requirements of each</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>spec into a single test script and perform one test =
for both standards? And</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>finally, do you know of any labs that are certified =
to test to both</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>standards....... preferably west of the =
Mississippi?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks in advance,</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jeffrey Collins </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>MTS, Principal Compliance Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ciena Core Switching Division</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>jcoll...@ciena.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>www.ciena.com</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-------------------------------------------</FONT>
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     ISTA uses standard ASTM specifications for vibration so most labs can 
     set it up.  You can perform their drop test yourself on a concrete 
     floor.  ISTA also has a membership program and certified laboratories 
     if you want full test documentation for insurance purposes.  
     
     We perform an in-house ISTA-equivalent shipping and handling test, 
     giving us the assurance that our packaging is adequate. Downside of an 
     in-house test is you must establish your own credibility in event of 
     shipping damage. 
     
     These procedures are available from the ISTA website, www.ista.org.  
     Series 1 tests cover most electronic products.
     
      Procedure 1A - Performance Test for Individual Packaged-Products 
     weighing 150 lb. (68.2 kg) or Less: Basic requirements include fixed 
     displacement vibration and shock testing  
     
     Procedure 1B - Performance Test for Individual Packaged-Products 
     weighing Over 150 lb.:  
      Basic requirements include fixed displacement vibration and shock 
     testing. 
     
     Procedure 1C - Performance Test for Extended Testing for Individual 
     Packaged-Products weighing 150 lb. (68.2 kg) or Less: Basic 
     requirements include fixed displacement or random vibration, shock and 
     compression testing (atmospheric conditioning optional). 
     
     Procedure 1D - Performance Test for Extended Testing for Individual 
     Packaged-Products weighing Over 150 lb. (68.2 kg): Basic requirements 
     include fixed displacement or random vibration, shock and compression 
     testing (atmospheric conditioning optional). 
     
     Procedure 1E - Performance Test for Unitized Loads:  Basic 
     requirements include vertical linear or random  vibration and shock 
     testing 
     
     Procedure 1F - Developmental Test for CLosed Reusable Transport 
     Containers for Loads of 150 lb. (68.2 kg) or Less: Basic requirements 
     include fixed displacement or random vibration, shock, compression 
     testing and atmospheric pre-conditioning. 
     
     Procedure 1G - Performance Test for Individual Packaged-Products 
     weighing 150 lb. (68.2 kg) or Less (Random Vibration): Basic 
     requirements include random vibration and shock testing 
     
     Procedure 1H - Performance Test for Individual Packaged-Products 
     weighing Over 150 lb. (68.2 kg) (Random Vibration): Basic requirements 
     include random vibration and shock testing 
     
     Procedure 2A - Performance Test for Individual Packaged-Products 
     weighing 150 lb. (68.2 kg) or Less: Basic requirements include 
     atmospheric conditioning, compression, fixed displacement or random 
     vibration and shock testing. 
     
     Procedure 2B - Performance Test for Individual Packaged-Products 
     weighing Over 150 lb. (68.2 kg): Basic requirements include 
     atmospheric conditioning, compression, fixed displacement or random 
     vibration and shock testing. 
     
     Procedure 3D - Performance Test for Small Packaged-Products 1 lb. 
     (453.6 g) or Less Bagged for Parcel Delivery System Shipment: Basic 
     requirements include random vibration and shock testing. 
     
     Procedure 3C - Performance Test for Individual Packaged-Products 150 
     lb. or Less for Parcel Delivery System Shipments: Basic requirements 
     include atmospheric conditioning, compression, random vibration and 
     shock testing. 
     
     Procedure 3E - Performance Test for Unitized Loads of Same Product: 
     Basic requirements include atmospheric conditioning, compression, 
     random vibration and shock testing. 
     
     Procedure 3F - Performance Test for Individual Packaged-Products 100 
     lb. (43.5 kg) or Less Shipped Non-Unitized from Distribution Center to 
     Retail Outlet: Basic requirements include atmospheric conditioning, 
     compression, random vibration and shock testing. 
     
     Procedure 3G - Thermal Performance Testing of Transport Packaging: 
     Basic requirements include atmospheric conditioning, vibration and 
     shock testing. 
     
     Procedure 3H - Performance Test for Products or Packaged-Products in 
     Mechanically Handled Bulk Transport Containers: Basic requirements 
     include atmospheric conditioning, random vibration and shock testing. 
     
     Procedure 3J - Performance Test for Reusable Intermediate Bulk 
     Containers: Basic requirements include atmospheric conditioning, 
     compression, random vibration and shock testing. 
     
     Guide 5B - Focused Simulation Guide for Thermal Performance Testing of 
     Temperature Controlled Transport Packaging 
     
     David Sterner
     ADEMCO, Syosset NY
     
     


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: RE: NEBS: Trans\Vib & ISTA standards (International Safe Tra
Author:  "John Juhasz" <SMTP:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com> at ADEMCONET
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date:    6/19/2000 9:08 AM


You may want to try MET Labs . . . they are fully capable for GR-63, so they
may
be able to integrate your other standard and they have a lab west of the 
Mississippi.
     
http://www.metlabs.com/ <http://www.metlabs.com/>
     
John Juhasz
Fiber Options
Bohemia, NY
     
-----Original Message-----
From: Collins, Jeffrey [ mailto:jcoll...@ciena.com
<mailto:jcoll...@ciena.com> ]
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 9:02 PM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Cc: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: NEBS: Trans\Vib & ISTA standards (International Safe Transit 
Asso ciation)
     
     
     
Group,
     
     
In addition to my NEBS GR-63 Transportation Vibration certification, I am 
also handling meeting a Manufacturing Quality Engineering Spec called "ISTA 
(International Safe Transit Association). Has anyone had any experience with

ISTA? Has anyone tried combining the most stringent requirements of each 
spec into a single test script and perform one test for both standards? And 
finally, do you know of any labs that are certified to test to both 
standards....... preferably west of the Mississippi?
     
Thanks in advance,
     
     
Jeffrey Collins
MTS, Principal Compliance Engineer
Ciena Core Switching Division
jcoll...@ciena.com
www.ciena.com
     
     
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From - Tue Jun 20 05:19:36 2000
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From: Edward Fitzgerald <edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: Contact at Bell Atlantic for NEBS specs.
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:32:55 +0100
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Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could provide a name and contact details
within Bell Atlantic relating to NEBS.

I'm trying to obtain a copy of RNSA-NEB-95-0003 : Rev.10 : January 26,
2000

The contact I've had to date has produced nothing and emails go
unanswered.

Many thanks, Edward

Edward Fitzgerald
Director, ETS

From - Tue Jun 20 05:20:05 2000
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From: Dave Wilson <dwil...@alidian.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: Contact at Bell Atlantic for NEBS specs.
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:01:19 -0700
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Ed,

If you're after the Bell Atlantic requirements docs, I think you can
download it from Conformity magazine's web-site:-

www.conformity.com <http://www.conformity.com> 

Dave Wilson


                -----Original Message-----
                From:   Edward Fitzgerald
[mailto:edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com]
                Sent:   Monday, June 19, 2000 9:33 AM
                To:     'nebs@world.std.com'
                Subject:        Contact at Bell Atlantic for NEBS specs.

                Hi,

                I was wondering if anyone could provide a name and contact
details
                within Bell Atlantic relating to NEBS.

                I'm trying to obtain a copy of RNSA-NEB-95-0003 : Rev.10 :
January 26,
                2000

                The contact I've had to date has produced nothing and emails
go
                unanswered.

                Many thanks, Edward

                Edward Fitzgerald
                Director, ETS

From - Tue Jun 20 05:20:07 2000
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From: Charlie Shu <charlie....@eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: Contact at Bell Atlantic for NEBS specs.
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Hi Edward,

Please try the follow URLs:

http://www.bell-atl.com/wholesale/html/res_nebs.htm
http://www.bell-atl.com/wholesale/html/clec_99/nebs_inf.pdf

Good luck,

Charlie Shu

Phone:     408 720-4853
E-mail:    charlie....@eng.sun.com
USPS mail: 901 San Antonio Rd. MS:USJC02-206
           Palo Alto, CA 94303-4900
Website:   http://www.sun.com

*********************************************************
Nobody believes analysis except the one who does it.
Everybody believes experiment except the one who does it.
That is why we do both.
*********************************************************

>From: Edward Fitzgerald <edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com>
>To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
>Subject: Contact at Bell Atlantic for NEBS specs.
>Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:32:55 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Hi,
>
>I was wondering if anyone could provide a name and contact details
>within Bell Atlantic relating to NEBS.
>
>I'm trying to obtain a copy of RNSA-NEB-95-0003 : Rev.10 : January 
26,
>2000
>
>The contact I've had to date has produced nothing and emails go
>unanswered.
>
>Many thanks, Edward
>
>Edward Fitzgerald
>Director, ETS

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From: Kamran Mohajer <kmoha...@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Contact at Bell Atlantic for NEBS specs.
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Ed,

Try this URL and download it yourself.

http://www.bellatlantic.com/wholesale/html/res_nebs.htm

Regards,

 
At 05:32 PM 6/19/00 +0100, Edward Fitzgerald wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I was wondering if anyone could provide a name and contact details
>within Bell Atlantic relating to NEBS.
>
>I'm trying to obtain a copy of RNSA-NEB-95-0003 : Rev.10 : January 26,
>2000
>
>The contact I've had to date has produced nothing and emails go
>unanswered.
>
>Many thanks, Edward
>
>Edward Fitzgerald
>Director, ETS

****************************************************************************
*******
Kamran Mohajer
Project Manager/
Aggregation Compliance Lead
Cisco Systems, Inc.
Phone(408)-525-6121
Fax(408)527-0495
kmoha...@cisco.com
****************************************************************************
*******

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From: Edward Fitzgerald <edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: Contact at Bell Atlantic for NEBS specs.
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Very many thanks to all of you who provided useful points of contact 
and the URLs to the relevant Bell Atlantic NEBS documents.  And so
quickly too!

Best regards, Ed Fitzgerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Fitzgerald [mailto:edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 5:33 PM
To: 'nebs@world.std.com'
Subject: Contact at Bell Atlantic for NEBS specs.


Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could provide a name and contact details
within Bell Atlantic relating to NEBS.

I'm trying to obtain a copy of RNSA-NEB-95-0003 : Rev.10 : January 26,
2000

The contact I've had to date has produced nothing and emails go
unanswered.

Many thanks, Edward

Edward Fitzgerald
Director, ETS

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The document RNSA-NEB-95-0003 : Rev.10 can be downloaded at:

http://www.bell-atl.com/wholesale/html/res_nebs.htm


Randy Ivans
Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
Melville, NY 11747
TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
FAX: 631-439-6096
NOTE NEW AREA CODE FOR UL MELVILLE!
email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com




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Hi Edward,

You'll find the NEBS documents we've collected on our web site at
www.curtis-straus.com, including the BA document, among others.

Edward Fitzgerald wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if anyone could provide a name and contact details
> within Bell Atlantic relating to NEBS.
>
> I'm trying to obtain a copy of RNSA-NEB-95-0003 : Rev.10 : January 26,
> 2000
>
> The contact I've had to date has produced nothing and emails go
> unanswered.
>
> Many thanks, Edward
>
> Edward Fitzgerald
> Director, ETS

--
Jon D. Curtis, P.E.

Director of Engineering
Curtis-Straus LLC

One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC,
Product Safety, and Telecom Testing.
527 Great Road
Littleton, MA 01460 USA
Voice 978-486-8880  Fax 978-486-8828
email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com
WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM


From - Mon Jun 26 19:26:47 2000
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From: plaw...@west.net (Patrick Lawler)
To: t...@world.std.com, nebs@world.std.com
Subject: What is Bellcore TR-NWT-000499?
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:04:58 -0700
Message-ID: <4e6flskkvs6a2rth2nfg2dpi2ahh7rh...@4ax.com>
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I recently saw a power supply transient immunity specification that
referred to Bellcore TR-NWT-000499.  However, I can't find this spec
on the Bellcore (Telcordia) web site.

What are the tests covered in this spec?

How do the tests compare to those found in Bellcore GR-1089 Issue 2?

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From: Bandele Adepoju <badep...@jetstream.com>
To: "'plaw...@west.net'" <plaw...@west.net>
Cc: "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
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Subject: RE: What is Bellcore TR-NWT-000499?
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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:24:02 -0700
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Bellcore TR-NWT-000499 (GR-499-CORE):

"Transport Systems Generic Requirements (TSGR): Common Requirements"

The GR describes Bellcore's view of the basic generic requirements 
common to transport systems. They are as follows:
* Availability
* Reliability and Quality
* Error Performance
* Protection Switching
* System Transient Response
* Jitter
* Transmission Delay
* Signal Interfaces
* Signal Formats
* Coding Laws
* Physical Design (NEBS GR-63, Safety Criteria, System labeling, 
  Alarms and Controls)
* Power Systems Interfaces (Shared DC Power/Distribution and AC Interfaces)
* Electrical Environment and Safety (GR-1089, sections 2,3,4,5,6,8,9)
* Operations Technology
* Supplier Documentation
* Supplier Training
* Alarm Surveillance.

Additional or ordering information can be obtained from the Telcordia 
site at:

http://telecom-info.telcordia.com/site-cgi/ido/index.html

Use the 'Search' function to obtain "499" matches.


Regards,

Bandele 
Jetstream Communications, Inc.
badep...@jetstream.com




-----Original Message-----
From: plaw...@west.net [mailto:plaw...@west.net]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 11:05 AM
To: t...@world.std.com; nebs@world.std.com
Subject: What is Bellcore TR-NWT-000499?


I recently saw a power supply transient immunity specification that
referred to Bellcore TR-NWT-000499.  However, I can't find this spec
on the Bellcore (Telcordia) web site.

What are the tests covered in this spec?

How do the tests compare to those found in Bellcore GR-1089 Issue 2?

From - Thu Jun 29 05:18:46 2000
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To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        "'t...@world.std.com'"
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Subject: CATV Coax and  NEBS compliance?
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Hello All,

CATV(cable TV) coax lines are typically regarded as SELV lines, according to
IEC60950 and UL1950. 

Recently CATV applications have moved to the Central Office. This means that
lines which are considered as SELV are going to be subjected to overvoltage.


Does anybody know how the Bells are going to accept this? What about NEBS?

Because of design limitations, CATV lines cannot comply with the insulation
and overvoltage requirements of NEBS. Are they going to continue to be
regarded as SELV?


Thanks 
Ilan




----------------------------------------------------
Ilan Cohen
Manager, Telecom Division
I.T.L (PRODUCT TESTING) Ltd.
26 Hacharoshet St, POB 211, Or Yehuda, Israel.
Tel 972-3-5339022, Fax 972-3-5339019
ico...@itl.co.il, website: http://www.itl.co.il 
---------------------------------------------------- 

From - Thu Mar 23 19:41:14 2000
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From: "Frank Krozel" <fr...@electronicinstrument.com>
To: "Joe Finlayson" <jfinlay...@telica.com>,
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References: <D1BB06A1EFA3D211A830009027289AEA261C26@wench>
Subject: Re: Lightning Surge Equipment
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:06:45 -0600
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Joe:
You may look to Amplifier Research /  EM Test for Bellcore GR-1089-Core.
The Model to seek out is TSS-500M/2B
Frank Krozel
Electronic Instrument Associates Central, Inc.
TEL: 630-924-1600
website:  http://www.electronicinstrument.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
To: 'NEBS Newsgroup' <NEBS@world.std.com>; 'EMC PSTC' <emc-p...@ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:16 AM
Subject: Lightning Surge Equipment


>
>
> I am trying to gather information on equipment capable of
> performing, at minimum, the lightning tests of Bellcore GR-1089-CORE
4.5.9,
> Intrabuilding Lightning Surge.  I am specifically interested in opinions
of
> different equipment, cost and extent of functionality (is there a cost
> savings for equipment whose functionality is limited to this test?).  Any
> input on used equipment would also be helpful.  I am initially interested
in
> pre-test if that makes a difference.  Any input would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thx,
>
>
> Joe
>
> *********************************
>  <<...>>
>
> Joe Finlayson
> Manager, Compliance Engineering
> Telica, Inc.
> 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> Marlboro, MA 01752
> Tel: (508) 480-0909 x212
> Fax: (508) 480-0922
> Email: jfinlay...@telica.com
> Web: www.telica.com
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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From - Wed Jan 05 05:07:27 2000
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From: "Paul J Smith" <paul_j_sm...@notes.teradyne.com>
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Subject: Inquiry on Restrictions and Bans of Mercury in Product components
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Folks,

Can anyone provide specific text or reference that provides a specific
restriction, limitation or ban to import into Europe or North America of any
component or system that includes relays with mercury in it . I only found a ban
for  Mercury content of all kinds of batteries ( except button cells) in
Directive 91/157/EEC

Further, can someone provide any reference to a similar ban or restriction on
electronics use of Cadmium, Lead, Nickel, Tin, or  Beryllium? Any feedback is
appreciated.  Thanks

Best Regards,            Paul J Smith
               Teradyne, Inc.,
               Boston, MA 02118
               paul.j.sm...@teradyne.com
               Voice 617-422-2997
               Fax 603-843-7526 or Fax 627-422-2801



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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:48:32 -0800
To: NEBS WORLD <nebs@world.std.com>
From: Don Robert House <drho...@abac.com>
Subject: Open Position Notice
Cc: "Ed Walbridge" <reliabil...@nidus.com>
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Telecommunications Engineer with NEBS expertise needed by 
telecommunications equipment manufacturer in Chicago's western 
suburbs. Salary open, commensurate with experience.

Reply to: "Ed Walbridge" <reliabil...@nidus.com>

From - Sat Jan 15 16:48:00 2000
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From: "Emond, Denis" <dem...@teknor.com>
To: "'NEBS discussion group'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: NEBS alarm status
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Hi,

I've seen companies who claim that they have a "NEBS compliant alarm status
display panel" . Which NEBS document (if any) refers to that type of
compliance? Or simply, what does it imply exactly ? 

Thanks for your help.



Denis Emond 
Director - CompactPCI development

Phone:  (450) 437-5682 ext.369
Fax:     (450) 437-8053
  
T E K N O R                     E-mail: dem...@teknor.com
APPLICOM

http://www.teknor.com
                                        




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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Meunier=2C_=C9ric?= <emeun...@teknor.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: DC Power Short-ciruit test GR-1089 Section 9.8.1 
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:44:15 -0500
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Hi,
I am trying to find out how to interpret the short-circuit protection
requirements of GR-1089 Section 9.8.1 R9-20 amended by Issue ID:1089-9.

1. Are the very short traces connecting IC's and discrete components pins=
 to
high current power planes required to survive a short at the components p=
ins
end?

2. If adequate current limiting can not be provided at the backplane leve=
l,
is it acceptable to place the current limiting device on the circuit pack
when the connector power pin or the trace connecting the power pin to the
current limiting device can not handle the backplane current?

3. Similarly to the above question, is it acceptable that a few component=
s
associated with the active current limiting circuit of a circuit pack be
powered by connector pins and traces that would not handle the backplane
current?

4. If multiple low current connector pins are used in parallel to connect
the power between a backplane and a circuit pack, is it acceptable that e=
ach
pin be not able to handle the backplane current individually?

Thanks in advance for your collaboration,
=C9ric

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=C9ric Meunier
Architecte de  conformit=E9 / Conformity Architect

E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com

Teknor Applicom Inc.
616, rue Cur=E9-Boivin
Boisbriand, Qu=E9bec
Canada, J7G 2A7

Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 419
Fax: 1-450-437-8053

Web: http://www.teknor.com


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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:12:28 -0800
From: Don Robert House <drho...@abac.com>
Subject: RE: NEBS alarm status
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The statement does not mean much because NEBS covers just about every
environmental that could involve the placement of the alarm panel.  This
sort of statement indicates that no user will be able to find some
requirement that the panel does not meet.  Sort of a risk dependent bet.
If the panel has the correct panel size and mounting holes and fits into a
NEBS footprint it is complaint for that.  If the panel has a SONALERT do the
emissions meet requirements?  This is one of many questions that apply to an
alarm panel.  Any piece of equipment placed in a Central Office would need
to have some level of NEBS compliance.  It does not follow that every single
apparatus will have a specific section in NEBS.  That is what engineers are
for.

Don
Ameritech NPES - Retired
Don Robert House, N.S.E.
Curator, NADCOMM
3841 Reche Road
Fallbrook, CA 92028
(760) 723-9943
(760) 723-9984 FAX


-----Original Message-----
From: nebs-appro...@world.std.com [mailto:nebs-appro...@world.std.com]On
Behalf Of Emond, Denis
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 3:31 PM
To: 'NEBS discussion group'
Subject: NEBS alarm status



Hi,

I've seen companies who claim that they have a "NEBS compliant alarm status
display panel" . Which NEBS document (if any) refers to that type of
compliance? Or simply, what does it imply exactly ?

Thanks for your help.



Denis Emond
Director - CompactPCI development

Phone:  (450) 437-5682 ext.369
Fax:     (450) 437-8053

T E K N O R                     E-mail: dem...@teknor.com
APPLICOM

http://www.teknor.com





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Subject: US-TX-Austin-EMC/Compliance Engineer
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
General Bandwidth is looking for an EMC/Compliance Engineer with the following
qualifications:
<ul>
<li>
BSEE with at least 5 years of industry related compliance experience.</li>

<li>
Direct exposure to Bellcore GR-1089-CORE and GR-63-CORE is desired.</li>

<li>
Hands-on experience in testing and submitting products for certification.</li>

<li>
Define EMC requirements for product development and team with R&amp;D engineers
to ensure EMC requirements are met.</li>

<li>
Ability to consult and provide specifications and design criteria for boards
and systems to R&amp;D engineers.</li>

<li>
Work with and manage outside test labs to perform emissions and compliance
testing.</li>

<li>
Write test plans and test reports.</li>

<li>
Perform EMC bench tests and simulations to ensure compliance will be met
at outside lab facilities.</li>
</ul>
We are a pre-IPO voice over ADSL manufacturer with a direct line to the
future of broadband technology.&nbsp; For more details on the company,
please visit our web site:
<p><a href="http://www.genband.com";>www.genband.com</a>
<p>To apply, please forward a letter of introduction, resume (email preferred),
and salary history to:
<p>Dave Lorusso
<br>dave.loru...@genband.com
<br>512-681-5401 (fax)
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;</html>

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From: JIM WIESE <jim.wi...@adtran.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Cc: emc-pstc <emc-p...@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: DC Power Short-circuit test GR-1089 Section 9.8.1 
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Eric,

I assume you are aware of the published clarification on this subject
published by Telcordia in December 1999.  I suspect this might have led t=
o
your questions, which are very good.

Rather than discuss your points specifically, I feel that simply covering
the intent of this generic requirement might clarify the issue.  I am als=
o
confident you will also find varying interpretations at the various test
houses.

The first point is that this requirement is found in Section 9 of
GR-1089-CORE which is titled "Bonding and Grounding".  Just as the title
implies, the intent behind the requirements is to ensure there is a relia=
ble
path for fault currents to flow and for reliable equipotential grounding.
This section was not intended for maintained functionality after a fault
condition.  This may be desired, but the short circuit tests that require
continued functionality are in Section 4 and deal with Tip and Ring
circuits.

The second point is that R9-20 and R9-21 are "type" tests.  That is the l=
ab
will short the output at the output terminals and again at the load (if i=
t
is remote to the EUT).  The assumption is that during normal operation, a
component fails and the output is shorted.  The test is to determine if a
safety hazard is possible if this situation occurs.  The pass/fail criter=
ia
are simply to make sure that the bonding and grounding paths (fault curre=
nt
carrying paths) remain undamaged, and there is not a risk of a fire hazar=
d
or mechanical hazard.  This is best accomplished by using fusing or other
sacrificial component that limits the current or opens the current path
before any damage to the bonding and grounding paths can occur.  If a
non-bonding or grounding trace opens benignly without  catching the
cheesecloth on fire, that would in my opinion be acceptable.  However if =
a
trace opens and in the process damages a frame ground trace, -48VR trace,=
 or
other trace that will provide electrical safety (even without fire) that
would be a failure.=20

The third point is that this test is not an in-depth investigation into w=
hat
happens under every conceivable change of load impedance or overload
condition.  These types of investigations are normally part of a safety
listing program performed by a NRTL "Nationally Recognized Testing Lab".
That is why I strongly endorse the Listing of all equipment regardless of
its location in the network.  The testing program for a Listing would be =
far
more thorough than what is in R9-20 or R9-21.  Overload testing, componen=
t
fault analysis, as well as short circuit testing would be conducted.  Not
only would this type of evaluation look for damaged fault return paths, a=
nd
blatant fire hazards, it would look for components that would overheat an=
d
potentially cause a fire.  A major omission to the requirements in R9-20 =
and
R9-21 is that the length of time the output is shorted is not defined.
Therefore technically for NEBS compliance a 1 ms short is as valid as a 3=
0
minute or 10 hour short.  The tests for a safety listing would require th=
e
current to stop flowing or require thermal equilibrium to be reached or 3=
0
minutes before the faults are removed.

On a second somewhat related issue, the status of safety listing standard=
s
for Network equipment is a mess right now.  There is technically not a
safety standard to which most network equipment should be allowed to be
Listed.  UL 1950, UL 1459 (which goes away April 1), and the new UL 60950
all require that the equipment listed by the safety standard be "intended=
 to
be installed per the National Electric Code".  Network equipment that
resides on the telco side of the demarcation point is exempt from the NEC
per Article 90-2 section b which states that the following are not covere=
d,
"Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive control of
communications utilities located outdoors or in building spaces used
exclusively for such installations".  Only the installation methodologies=
 of
the wire and cable are controlled by the NEC, the telco owned "equipment"=
 is
exempt.  Therefore telecommunications equipment that is intended for
deployment in C.O.'s, the outside plant, or inside the customer premise (=
if
on the telco side of the demarc) cannot be listed to appropriate safety
standard as one does not exist (although several NRTL's are inappropriate=
ly
doing it to UL 1459 and UL 1950 due to NEBS requirements or customer
requests). =20

What I would propose is that industry (either through UL, T1E1.7 or TIA
TR41.7) develop an ANSI  safety standard for network telecommunications
equipment that resides on the telco side of the demarc point or that make=
s
up the demarc point.  The new safety standard could be closely modeled af=
ter
UL 1950, 1459, 1863, GR-63-CORE and GR-1089-CORE.   It could incorporate
several GR-63-CORE, and GR-1089-CORE items so that the original complianc=
e
as well as continued compliance could be verified by the end customer sim=
ply
by seeing the listing mark on the product.  This could also be used by
CLEC's to demonstrate compliance with the FCC report and Order last sprin=
g
stating they only need to comply with NEBS Level 1 as defined by SR 3580 =
if
they want to co-locate equipment in a C.O.  They could show the listing
information and the FCC part 15 information to the ILEC and demonstrate
complete NEBS Level 1 compliance.

Examples of what could be incorporated into the new safety standard are:
1.) GR-1089-CORE section 4 - Second level power fault and lightning
requirements
2.) GR-1089-CORE section 4 - Listing requirements
3.) GR-1089-CORE section 7 - Safety
4.) GR-1089-CORE section 8 - Corrosion
5.) GR-1089-CORE section 9 - Bonding and Grounding (which would clear up
your original question)
6.) GR-63-CORE section 4.2 - materials analysis for flammability (use ANS=
I
T1.307-1997)
7.) GR-63-CORE section 4.2 - burn test (use ANSI T1.319-2000 which is in
progress now, assuming it includes pass/fail criteria as has been propose=
d.
Otherwise use its methodology and GR-63-CORE pass/fail criteria)
8.) UL 1950, UL 1459, 1863  - use the basic principles with the
understanding that this equipment is exempt from the NEC and certain
concepts such as voltage limits/classifications in GR-1089-CORE are in
direct violation of the NEC (which only allows up to 60 VDC on customer
premise telco wiring and 150V on any telecommunications wiring, GR-1089-C=
ORE
theoretically allows 400VDC with GFI).  Replace TNV1, TNV2, TNV3, and RFT
with Class A1, Class A2, and Class A3, AB, and B. Eliminate the European
concept of creepage and clearance distances in telco circuits as the
infrastructure of the North American network has proved itself safe with
dielectric tests only.  The creepage and clearance distances specified in=
 UL
60950 for circuits above 60 VDC are not obtainable with the current
infrastructure.  With UL 60950 ILEC's will need to do voltage management =
for
the Listings to be valid rather than service management which is not
logistically feasible.  Other industry standard items that are incompatib=
le
with UL 60950 are wire wrap pins and in some cases champ style connectors
and even the twisted pair wiring which in many cases does not have thick
enough insulation and in many cases is not Listed (as required by the NEC=
).
Also "frame" the standard more from a perspective of a service person or
craftsperson as they are the only ones who are intended to be using this
equipment.
9.) If the equipment is a PBX, computer, router, or other type of equipme=
nt
that can have a dual role as customer owned and operated or telco owned a=
nd
operated, it would require a listing to UL 60950 (or meeting the
requirements of UL 60950) as well as items 1 through 7 above.=20

I believe this would be greatly beneficial to the end users, equipment
vendors and the test labs.

Of course questions and issues regarding specifics of sections of GR-63-C=
ORE
and GR-1089-CORE covered by a new ANSI safety standard could easily be
addressed by clarification and changes in the standard.  This cannot be d=
one
with the Bellcore NEBS documents.

Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 140000
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com=20

> ----------
> From:         Meunier, =C9ric[SMTP:emeun...@teknor.com]
> Sent:         Friday, January 14, 2000 5:44 PM
> To:   nebs@world.std.com
> Subject:      DC Power Short-ciruit test GR-1089 Section 9.8.1=20
>=20
> Hi,
> I am trying to find out how to interpret the short-circuit protection
> requirements of GR-1089 Section 9.8.1 R9-20 amended by Issue ID:1089-9.
>=20
> 1. Are the very short traces connecting IC's and discrete components pi=
ns
> to
> high current power planes required to survive a short at the components
> pins
> end?
>=20
> 2. If adequate current limiting can not be provided at the backplane
> level,
> is it acceptable to place the current limiting device on the circuit pa=
ck
> when the connector power pin or the trace connecting the power pin to t=
he
> current limiting device can not handle the backplane current?
>=20
> 3. Similarly to the above question, is it acceptable that a few compone=
nts
> associated with the active current limiting circuit of a circuit pack b=
e
> powered by connector pins and traces that would not handle the backplan=
e
> current?
>=20
> 4. If multiple low current connector pins are used in parallel to conne=
ct
> the power between a backplane and a circuit pack, is it acceptable that
> each
> pin be not able to handle the backplane current individually?
>=20
> Thanks in advance for your collaboration,
> =C9ric
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> =C9ric Meunier
> Architecte de  conformit=E9 / Conformity Architect
>=20
> E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com
>=20
> Teknor Applicom Inc.
> 616, rue Cur=E9-Boivin
> Boisbriand, Qu=E9bec
> Canada, J7G 2A7
>=20
> Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 419
> Fax: 1-450-437-8053
>=20
> Web: http://www.teknor.com
>=20
>=20

From - Wed Jan 19 06:20:42 2000
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:05:01 EST
Subject: Re: US-TX-Austin-EMC/Compliance Engineer
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Hello Dave, if you need someone to write test procedures, negotiate and 
monitor test labs I can help have 35 years experience in the business..Frank 
Peter
516-589-3466

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From: "Dougherty, David" <dav...@hnt.wylelabs.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: US-TX-Austin-EMC/Compliance Engineer
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:31 -0600
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Frank:
Are you available to move to Huntsville, AL?

If so, please send me your resume.  Thanks for your interest.

Best Regards,

Dave Dougherty
Director, Program Development
Wyle Laboratories, Inc.
7800 Highway 20
Huntsville, AL 35806
256-837-4411, ext. 373
Fax: 256-721-0144



> ----------
> From:         bpete...@aol.com[SMTP:bpete...@aol.com]
> Reply To:     nebs@world.std.com
> Sent:         Tuesday, January 18, 2000 8:05 PM
> To:   nebs@world.std.com
> Subject:      Re: US-TX-Austin-EMC/Compliance Engineer
> 
> Hello Dave, if you need someone to write test procedures, negotiate and 
> monitor test labs I can help have 35 years experience in the
> business..Frank 
> Peter
> 516-589-3466
> 

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From: "Emond, Denis" <dem...@teknor.com>
To: "'NEBS discussion group'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Meunier=2C_=C9ric?= <emeun...@teknor.com>,
        "Muraglia, Philippe" <pmura...@teknor.com>,
        "Sauvageau, Mario"
         <sauva...@teknor.com>
Subject: NEBS compliance checklist  for Compact PCI boards
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:59:32 -0500
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We are looking for a NEBS compliance Design Checklist for densely populat=
ed
double sided Compact-PCI plug-in boards using high density SMT components.
The checklist should reflect a thorough knowledge of RBOC's and Test Labs
requirements and interpretations. If you have such a list, or the compete=
ncy
to generate it, please contact us.

Thanks

=C9ric Meunier
Architecte de  conformit=E9 / Conformity Architect

E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com

Teknor Applicom Inc.
616, rue Cur=E9-Boivin
Boisbriand, Qu=E9bec
Canada, J7G 2A7

Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 419
Fax: 1-450-437-8053

Web: http://www.teknor.com


Denis Emond=20
Director - CompactPCI development

Phone:  (450) 437-5682 ext.369
Fax:     (450) 437-8053
 =20
T E K N O R                     E-mail: dem...@teknor.com
APPLICOM

http://www.teknor.com
                                =09




From - Fri Jan 21 04:52:36 2000
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From: "Hazeltine, Joseph" <hazel...@hnt.wylelabs.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: NEBS compliance checklist  for Compact PCI boards
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:20:46 -0600
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Denis,

We have a checklist that we use here at Wyle for NEBS compliance activiti=
es.

We also have the capability to generate one in more detail if needed.

We would love to discuss your requirements in more detail.

Joe Hazeltine

-----Original Message-----
From: Emond, Denis [mailto:dem...@teknor.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 11:00 AM
To: 'NEBS discussion group'
Cc: Meunier, =C9ric; Muraglia, Philippe; Sauvageau, Mario
Subject: NEBS compliance checklist for Compact PCI boards


We are looking for a NEBS compliance Design Checklist for densely populat=
ed
double sided Compact-PCI plug-in boards using high density SMT components.
The checklist should reflect a thorough knowledge of RBOC's and Test Labs
requirements and interpretations. If you have such a list, or the compete=
ncy
to generate it, please contact us.

Thanks

=C9ric Meunier
Architecte de  conformit=E9 / Conformity Architect

E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com

Teknor Applicom Inc.
616, rue Cur=E9-Boivin
Boisbriand, Qu=E9bec
Canada, J7G 2A7

Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 419
Fax: 1-450-437-8053

Web: http://www.teknor.com


Denis Emond=20
Director - CompactPCI development

Phone:  (450) 437-5682 ext.369
Fax:     (450) 437-8053
 =20
T E K N O R                     E-mail: dem...@teknor.com
APPLICOM

http://www.teknor.com
                                =09



From - Fri Jan 28 05:06:55 2000
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Subject: Re:  RE: US-TX-Austin-EMC/Compliance Engineer
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Good morning Dave, I think I may have mislead you, although I  have 35 years 
in the Business I am not an EMC engineer. The title I like most is "Manager 
Projects Extraordinaire", as the team leader of the industrial sales team of 
a large independent test lab my team covered the following markets...
    Telecommunications
    Automotive
    Aerospace
    Shipboard
    Medical
    Industrial
    Military Primes
Market share was about $12 million/ year.
If there is interest in Wyle's sales and marketing staff for an experienced 
technical sales and marketing person you can reached me at "bpete...@aol.com"

From - Fri Jan 28 05:10:34 2000
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From: Tom Lavka <tla...@coppermountain.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Cc: Jim Donnelly <jdonne...@coppermountain.com>
Subject: Job Opportunity at Copper Mountain Networks, Inc.
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COPPER MOUNTAIN NETWORKS

                          Title 
                               INTERNATIONAL COMPLIANCE ENGINEER 
                          Location 
                               SAN DIEGO, CA 92121, USA 
                          Description
                               Life moves fast at Copper Mountain Networks,
a rapidly growing
                               provider of end-to-end DSL products for both
Network Service
                               Provider (NSP) and end-user needs. In three
years, we've become a
                               major success story and our growth is showing
no signs of slowing
                               down. If you're a sharp team player, consider
joining us in our
                               fast-paced, "go for it" environment. We'll
dazzle you with challenges
                               and acknowledge your accomplishments with
professional growth
                               and respect. Consider the following in our
SAN DIEGO, CA office:

                               INTERNATIONAL COMPLIANCE ENGINEER 

                               You will investigate required compliance
specifications and testing
                               needed to take Copper Mountain products into
identified
                               international markets. Produce plans and
documentation to support
                               the entry into these markets. Manage 3rd
party development of
                               custom power supplies for CE150 platform.
Provide technical and
                               project leadership in compliance engineering
including staff
                               development, and other platform related areas
such as line interfaces
                               and power subsystems.

                               Requires a BSEE and 10 years experience in
both hands-on
                               engineering and leadership of technical team.
Background in Telecom
                               and related industry desired. Must have
experience in compliance
                               engineering, international compliance,
product safety, and
                               electromagnetic compatibility. Experience in
power supply design and
                               power distribution subsystems in
communications systems strongly
                               recommended. Candidate must be computer
literate, and possess
                               working knowledge with schematic capture,
database; CAD skills
                               strongly recommended.

                               We offer great growth potential, competitive
salaries and benefits and
                               stock options in a company on its way to the
top. 

                               To apply, send your resume to: 
                               Copper Mountain Networks, 
                               Attn: Professional Staffing,
                               Ref #99-127-CM
                               10145 Pacific Heights Blvd., #100, 
                               San Diego, CA 92121. Fax: (858) 410-7280. 
                               E-mail: j...@coppermountain.com 
                               Equal Opportunity Employer.

                               COPPER MOUNTAIN NETWORKS
                               www.coppermountain.com 

From - Tue Mar 07 05:33:05 2000
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Message-ID: <38c3fb5a.39812...@curtis-straus.com>
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:39:22 -0500
From: "Jon D. Curtis" <j...@curtis-straus.com>
Organization: curtis-straus
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Subject: Intrabuilding surge suppression devices for ethernet
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Dear Group,

What are people using for intrabuilding surge suppression on 10MB
ethernet?

On 100MB ethernet?

We've tried some Teccor parts and some diodes after the transformer.
These seem to work OK, but I would like to know if there are other
manufacturers of parts or alternate strategies of compliance that you
will share.

Sincerely,

--
Jon D. Curtis, P.E.

Director of Engineering
Curtis-Straus LLC

One Stop Laboratory for EMC, Product Safety,
and Telecom Testing.
527 Great Road
Littleton, MA 01460 USA
Voice 978-486-8880  Fax 978-486-8828
email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com
WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM


From - Wed Mar 08 20:56:11 2000
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List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:05:10 -0800
From: Doug <dmck...@gte.net>
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To: Nebs Discussion Group <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: A New Listserver Announcment ... 
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I've asked Mr. Curtis if I could this announcement 
and he's agreed. 

I created a listserver newsgroup several weeks ago 
with the hopes of discussing anything to do with 
printed circuit board construction techniques needed 
specifically to pass, certify, or be approved by various 
agencies such as the FCC, UL, Bellcore, etc. 

It is by no means intended to detract from this or 
any other discussion group.  Most of the members, there's 
about 60 of us so far , are electrical engineers with 
heavy experience with all sorts of agency test experience 
and board construction techniques to pass these tests.  

The membership list is closed for viewing so you 
can join and lurk without anyone knowing you're 
a member.  Also, the Onelist discussion groups 
allow you 3 choices: first - to receive each and 
every post; second - to receive a digest of posts 
about 50k bytes big; third - opt to receive no 
posts with the "web only" option to view digests 
from the web page listed below.  That way, your 
In box will never fill up. 

It is my hope that this group can be used as a 
significant resource to enhance you professionals 
who have helped me in many ways. 

If you are involved with any questions regarding 
printed circuit board construction methods for 
agency test requirements, I invite you to join up 
and post some questions. 

Please take a look at ... 

http://www.onelist.com/community/pcbtechniques 

Regards,  Doug McKean

From - Thu Mar 16 06:38:31 2000
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Meunier=2C_=C9ric=22?= <emeun...@teknor.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Grouding conductor fault current
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:23:44 -0500
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Hi,
With regards to the GR1089 requirement for a grounding conductor to safel=
y
conduct fault currents "likely to be imposed" (Section 9.7.1, R9-10 [82])=
:
Do we have to consider that multiple independent outputs of an embedded
power source (ex: 5V and 3.3V) may be shorted simultaneously, or can we
assume that only one would be shorted at a time?

Best Regards,
Eric

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=C9ric Meunier
Architecte de conformit=E9 / Conformity Architect

E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com

Teknor Applicom Inc.
616, rue Cur=E9-Boivin
Boisbriand, Qu=E9bec
Canada, J7G 2A7

Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 419
Fax: 1-450-437-8053

Web: http://www.teknor.com


From - Thu Mar 16 06:38:34 2000
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From: David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: Grouding conductor fault current
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Eric,
My interpretation of the standard is that the grounding conductor needs t=
o
be able to handle the sum of the currents.  If both the supplies are fed
from a common supply, e.g. -48V, then they should both be included in the
calculation.
Regards,
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications

-----Original Message-----
From: "Meunier, =C9ric" [mailto:emeun...@teknor.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 4:24 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: Grouding conductor fault current


Hi,
With regards to the GR1089 requirement for a grounding conductor to safel=
y
conduct fault currents "likely to be imposed" (Section 9.7.1, R9-10 [82])=
:
Do we have to consider that multiple independent outputs of an embedded
power source (ex: 5V and 3.3V) may be shorted simultaneously, or can we
assume that only one would be shorted at a time?

Best Regards,
Eric

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=C9ric Meunier
Architecte de conformit=E9 / Conformity Architect

E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com

Teknor Applicom Inc.
616, rue Cur=E9-Boivin
Boisbriand, Qu=E9bec
Canada, J7G 2A7

Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 419
Fax: 1-450-437-8053

Web: http://www.teknor.com

From - Thu Mar 16 06:38:36 2000
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Hi Eric,

In the viewpoint of safety, fault condition that should be considered is =
alway
one case, which means safety requirement do not
expect two short circuit conditions simultaneousely. So, my opinion is th=
at it
will be the proper to consider higher current due to  severe short circui=
t.

Regards,
John





"Meunier, =C9ric" <emeun...@teknor.com> on 2000-03-15 12:23:44 =BF=C0=C0=FC

Please respond to nebs@world.std.com

Sent by:  "Meunier, =C9ric" <emeun...@teknor.com>


To:   nebs@world.std.com
cc:    (bcc: John Kim/CoProd/Seoul/KR/SGS)
Subject:  Grouding conductor fault current



Hi,
With regards to the GR1089 requirement for a grounding conductor to safel=
y
conduct fault currents "likely to be imposed" (Section 9.7.1, R9-10 [82])=
:
Do we have to consider that multiple independent outputs of an embedded
power source (ex: 5V and 3.3V) may be shorted simultaneously, or can we
assume that only one would be shorted at a time?

Best Regards,
Eric

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=C9ric Meunier
Architecte de conformit=E9 / Conformity Architect

E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com

Teknor Applicom Inc.
616, rue Cur=E9-Boivin
Boisbriand, Qu=E9bec
Canada, J7G 2A7

Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 419
Fax: 1-450-437-8053

Web: http://www.teknor.com





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From - Thu Mar 16 06:46:37 2000
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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conference
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
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Joe, and list members,

I am not sure about the NEBS 2000 seminars.  I would like to receive
information on them.
I am signed up for the NEBS by MET Seminar and Workshop to be held in Union
City, CA on April 12-13, 2000
Keynote Speaker is Chuck Graft of Bell Atlantic

Don

Don Robert House
Member Technical Staff
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2195 Faraday Avenue, Suite C
Carlsbad, CA 92008
(760) 476-1511
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:05 PM
To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'
Subject: NEBS 2000 Conference


        
        I couldn't help but notice that there are two NEBS 2000 conferences
this year - on the exact same dates.  UL and Telcordia/Bell Atlantic are
both sponsoring what appears to be the same event and, in some cases,
claiming the same representatives will be there.  Does anyone have any
insight to what's going on here?  I'm definitely going to one, but..........

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>> 

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com

From - Fri Mar 17 04:56:51 2000
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From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conference
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Don,

        The details are on the Telcordia and UL web sites.  I believe the
intent of these are to be more of a conference than a seminar - interaction
between the manufacturers, test labs and RBOC's - as opposed to a training
session.  

        http://www.800teachme.com/nebsconference.html
        http://www.ul.com/seminars/newseminar.htm

        I would prefer to attend both although, by "coincidence", they seem
to be on the same dates.  Can anyone shed some light onto the history behind
this situation and if anyone might be changing their dates?

Thx,


Joe

********************************************


Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Foster Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Don House [mailto:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:24 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conference


Joe, and list members,

I am not sure about the NEBS 2000 seminars.  I would like to receive
information on them.
I am signed up for the NEBS by MET Seminar and Workshop to be held in Union
City, CA on April 12-13, 2000
Keynote Speaker is Chuck Graft of Bell Atlantic

Don

Don Robert House
Member Technical Staff
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2195 Faraday Avenue, Suite C
Carlsbad, CA 92008
(760) 476-1511
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:05 PM
To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'
Subject: NEBS 2000 Conference


        
        I couldn't help but notice that there are two NEBS 2000 conferences
this year - on the exact same dates.  UL and Telcordia/Bell Atlantic are
both sponsoring what appears to be the same event and, in some cases,
claiming the same representatives will be there.  Does anyone have any
insight to what's going on here?  I'm definitely going to one, but..........

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>> 

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com

From - Fri Mar 17 04:57:35 2000
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I attended one of the very first NEBS seminars held, a few years back. It
was hosted by
Bellcore (now known as Telcordia). They are the ones who wrote the specs.,
with input from the RBOCs (although some of the RBOCs may have additional
requirements, and some also make the 'objective' specs in NEBS, 'required'
specs to get into their CO).

Going back to your question, as to which one to attend, personally I would
prefer to attend the one hosted by the authors of the specification. Make
sense?
In either one, there will be reps from the various RBOCs.

John Juhasz
Fiber Options
Bohemia, NY

-----Original Message-----
From: CHRIS WELLBORN [mailto:chris.wellb...@adtran.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 10:01 AM
To: NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum
Subject: NEBS 2000 Conferences



I would just like to share some information that I obtained this morning
concerning the above conferences.

Telcordia and Bell Atlantic will be hosting the NEBS conference in Baltimore
on October 4-5, 2000.  The preliminary agenda and key speakers are shown at
the following website:

http://www.800teachme.com/nebsagenda.html

Underwriters Laboratories and US West will be hosting a NEBS 2000 conference
in Las Vegas on October 4-6, 2000.  The preliminary agenda and key speakers
will be provided on their website in the near future.  I was informed that
Michael Bentley from US West will be one of the chairmen for this
conference.

Which one should you attend?

Future details will be available at both the Telcordia and UL websites.  

Chris Wellborn
Regulatory Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN
Voice: (256) 963-8906



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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: NEBS 2000 Conferences</TITLE>
</HEAD>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I attended one of the very first NEBS seminars held, =
a few years back. It was hosted by</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bellcore (now known as Telcordia). They are the ones =
who wrote the specs., with input from the RBOCs (although some of the =
RBOCs may have additional requirements, and some also make the =
'objective' specs in NEBS, 'required' specs to get into their =
CO).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Going back to your question, as to which one to =
attend, personally I would prefer to attend the one hosted by the =
authors of the specification. Make sense?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In either one, there will be reps from the various =
RBOCs.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>John Juhasz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fiber Options</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bohemia, NY</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: CHRIS WELLBORN [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:chris.wellb...@adtran.com";>mailto:chris.wellborn@adtran.c=
om</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 10:01 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: NEBS 2000 Conferences</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I would just like to share some information that I =
obtained this morning</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>concerning the above conferences.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Telcordia and Bell Atlantic will be hosting the NEBS =
conference in Baltimore</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>on October 4-5, 2000.&nbsp; The preliminary agenda =
and key speakers are shown at</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the following website:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://www.800teachme.com/nebsagenda.html"; =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.800teachme.com/nebsagenda.html</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Underwriters Laboratories and US West will be hosting =
a NEBS 2000 conference</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>in Las Vegas on October 4-6, 2000.&nbsp; The =
preliminary agenda and key speakers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>will be provided on their website in the near =
future.&nbsp; I was informed that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Michael Bentley from US West will be one of the =
chairmen for this</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>conference.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Which one should you attend?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Future details will be available at both the =
Telcordia and UL websites.&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Chris Wellborn</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regulatory Compliance Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>ADTRAN</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Voice: (256) 963-8906</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product =
Safety</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.</FONT>
</P>

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Bacher:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Michael =
Garretson:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
pstc_ad...@garretson.org</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>For policy questions, send mail to:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Richard =
Nute:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
ri...@ieee.org</FONT>
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From - Fri Mar 17 04:57:43 2000
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From: Gary McInturff <gmcintu...@telect.com>
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                Both Telecordia and UL are test houses that can deal with
NEBS testing. Telcordia has probably been at it longer than UL and used to
be a part of MA Bell, and then Bell Labs. UL in the last couple of years has
been putting on NEBS seminars at which all of the RBOC's Bell Atlantic, US
West, SWB, and all of the others were panelist. UL hosted it and Telecordia
was in the crowd with the rest of us. During these seminars if anyone was to
take a more stringent interpretation or to add requirements not in the NEBS
documents that tended to be Bell Atlantic. 
        The timing of these two seminars sounds a whole lot political to me,
and that may be much more interesting than who hosts the conference. In
particular when you consider that the NEBS 2000 requirements have been a bit
of a political football, with Bell Atlantic in particular not wanting
manufacturing input into the standard. The stated reason was they felt it
would slow the process down. Certainly, a possibility but I would encourage
you to draw you own conclusions.
        If there isn't something else afoot here then I would point out that
I would much rather be in Las Vegas in October than Baltimore.
        Gary
        

                -----Original Message-----
                From:   CHRIS WELLBORN [mailto:chris.wellb...@adtran.com]
                Sent:   Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:01 AM
                To:     NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum
                Subject:        NEBS 2000 Conferences


                I would just like to share some information that I obtained
this morning
                concerning the above conferences.

                Telcordia and Bell Atlantic will be hosting the NEBS
conference in Baltimore
                on October 4-5, 2000.  The preliminary agenda and key
speakers are shown at
                the following website:

                http://www.800teachme.com/nebsagenda.html

                Underwriters Laboratories and US West will be hosting a NEBS
2000 conference
                in Las Vegas on October 4-6, 2000.  The preliminary agenda
and key speakers
                will be provided on their website in the near future.  I was
informed that
                Michael Bentley from US West will be one of the chairmen for
this
                conference.

                Which one should you attend?

                Future details will be available at both the Telcordia and
UL websites.  

                Chris Wellborn
                Regulatory Compliance Engineer
                ADTRAN
                Voice: (256) 963-8906



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From - Fri Mar 17 04:57:50 2000
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From: JIM WIESE <jim.wi...@adtran.com>
To: "'CHRIS WELLBORN'" <chris.wellb...@adtran.com>,
        NEBS Forum
         <NEBS@world.std.com>, EMC-PSTC Forum <emc-p...@ieee.org>,
        Gary McInturff
         <gmcintu...@telect.com>
Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conferences
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Could someone enlighten me on what is meant by "NEBS 2000 requirements"?  Is
there some sort of standards work going on here?

Thanks,
Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 140000
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com 

> ----------
> From:         Gary McInturff[SMTP:gmcintu...@telect.com]
> Sent:         Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:54 AM
> To:   'CHRIS WELLBORN'; NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum
> Subject:      RE: NEBS 2000 Conferences
> 
> 
>               Both Telecordia and UL are test houses that can deal with
> NEBS testing. Telcordia has probably been at it longer than UL and used to
> be a part of MA Bell, and then Bell Labs. UL in the last couple of years
> has
> been putting on NEBS seminars at which all of the RBOC's Bell Atlantic, US
> West, SWB, and all of the others were panelist. UL hosted it and
> Telecordia
> was in the crowd with the rest of us. During these seminars if anyone was
> to
> take a more stringent interpretation or to add requirements not in the
> NEBS
> documents that tended to be Bell Atlantic. 
>       The timing of these two seminars sounds a whole lot political to me,
> and that may be much more interesting than who hosts the conference. In
> particular when you consider that the NEBS 2000 requirements have been a
> bit
> of a political football, with Bell Atlantic in particular not wanting
> manufacturing input into the standard. The stated reason was they felt it
> would slow the process down. Certainly, a possibility but I would
> encourage
> you to draw you own conclusions.
>       If there isn't something else afoot here then I would point out that
> I would much rather be in Las Vegas in October than Baltimore.
>       Gary
>       
> 
>               -----Original Message-----
>               From:   CHRIS WELLBORN [mailto:chris.wellb...@adtran.com]
>               Sent:   Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:01 AM
>               To:     NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum
>               Subject:        NEBS 2000 Conferences
> 
> 
>               I would just like to share some information that I obtained
> this morning
>               concerning the above conferences.
> 
>               Telcordia and Bell Atlantic will be hosting the NEBS
> conference in Baltimore
>               on October 4-5, 2000.  The preliminary agenda and key
> speakers are shown at
>               the following website:
> 
>               http://www.800teachme.com/nebsagenda.html
> 
>               Underwriters Laboratories and US West will be hosting a NEBS
> 2000 conference
>               in Las Vegas on October 4-6, 2000.  The preliminary agenda
> and key speakers
>               will be provided on their website in the near future.  I was
> informed that
>               Michael Bentley from US West will be one of the chairmen for
> this
>               conference.
> 
>               Which one should you attend?
> 
>               Future details will be available at both the Telcordia and
> UL websites.  
> 
>               Chris Wellborn
>               Regulatory Compliance Engineer
>               ADTRAN
>               Voice: (256) 963-8906
> 
> 
> 
>               -------------------------------------------
>               This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
>               Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
>               To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>                    majord...@ieee.org
>               with the single line:
>                    unsubscribe emc-pstc
> 
>               For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>                    Jim Bacher:              jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com
>                    Michael Garretson:        pstc_ad...@garretson.org
> 
>               For policy questions, send mail to:
>                    Richard Nute:           ri...@ieee.org
>               
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>      majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
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> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
>      Richard Nute:           ri...@ieee.org
> 
> 

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Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Framework Criteria
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Jim,
The following is from GR-63:
"NEBS-2000 Framework Criteria
This section presents new generic requirements for the physical design of
cabinets and
frameworks to help simplify planning and installation, ensure adequate
physical strength,
and provide uniformity between suppliers of telecommunications and computer
equipment.
These requirements may be used in place of the frame dimensions and
strength criteria of
Section 2. .......

......... In summary, this section presents the criteria for a new frame to
? Coincide with current national and international standards
? Be used with current and future network equipment
? Provide improved compatibility between equipment suppliers' products
? Provide capabilities for raised-floor and concrete-floor installations
? Provide cable access from overhead or below the floor
? Improve physical strength and earthquake resistance
? Improve the accessibility to equipment and hardware during maintenance."

Randy Ivans
Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
Melville, NY 11747
TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
FAX: 631-439-6096
NOTE NEW AREA CODE FOR UL MELVILLE!
email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com




                    n...@world.st
                    d.com                To:     "'CHRIS WELLBORN'"
                                         <chris.wellb...@adtran.com>, "NEBS
Forum"
                    03/16/00             <NEBS@world.std.com>, "EMC-PSTC
Forum"
                    01:31 PM             <emc-p...@ieee.org>, "Gary
McInturff"
                                         <gmcintu...@telect.com>
                                         cc:     (bcc: Randolph J.
Ivans/MEL/ULI)
                                         Subject:     RE: NEBS 2000
Conferences






Could someone enlighten me on what is meant by "NEBS 2000 requirements"?
Is
there some sort of standards work going on here?

Thanks,
Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 140000
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com

> ----------
> From:   Gary McInturff[SMTP:gmcintu...@telect.com]
March 16, 2000 11:54 AM
> To:     'CHRIS WELLBORN'; NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum
> Subject:     RE: NEBS 2000 Conferences
>
>
>         Both Telecordia and UL are test houses that can deal with
> NEBS testing. Telcordia has probably been at it longer than UL and used
to
> be a part of MA Bell, and then Bell Labs. UL in the last couple of years
> has
> been putting on NEBS seminars at which all of the RBOC's Bell Atlantic,
US
> West, SWB, and all of the others were panelist. UL hosted it and
> Telecordia
> was in the crowd with the rest of us. During these seminars if anyone was
> to
> take a more stringent interpretation or to add requirements not in the
> NEBS
> documents that tended to be Bell Atlantic.
>    The timing of these two seminars sounds a whole lot political to me,
> and that may be much more interesting than who hosts the conference. In
> particular when you consider that the NEBS 2000 requirements have been a
> bit
> of a political football, with Bell Atlantic in particular not wanting
> manufacturing input into the standard. The stated reason was they felt it
> would slow the process down. Certainly, a possibility but I would
> encourage
> you to draw you own conclusions.
>    If there isn't something else afoot here then I would point out that
> I would much rather be in Las Vegas in October than Baltimore.
>    Gary
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From:     CHRIS WELLBORN [mailto:chris.wellb...@adtran.com]
>         Sent:     Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:01 AM
>         To:  NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum
>         Subject:  NEBS 2000 Conferences
>
>
>         I would just like to share some information that I obtained
> this morning
>         concerning the above conferences.
>
>         Telcordia and Bell Atlantic will be hosting the NEBS
> conference in Baltimore
>         on October 4-5, 2000.  The preliminary agenda and key
> speakers are shown at
>         the following website:
>
>         http://www.800teachme.com/nebsagenda.html
>
>         Underwriters Laboratories and US West will be hosting a NEBS
> 2000 conference
>         in Las Vegas on October 4-6, 2000.  The preliminary agenda
> and key speakers
>         will be provided on their website in the near future.  I was
> informed that
>         Michael Bentley from US West will be one of the chairmen for
> this
>         conference.
>
>         Which one should you attend?
>
>         Future details will be available at both the Telcordia and
> UL websites.
>
>         Chris Wellborn
>         Regulatory Compliance Engineer
>         ADTRAN
>         Voice: (256) 963-8906
>
>
>
>         -------------------------------------------
>         This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
>         Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
>         To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>              majord...@ieee.org
>         with the single line:
>              unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
>         For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>              Jim Bacher:              jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com
>              Michael Garretson:        pstc_ad...@garretson.org
>
>         For policy questions, send mail to:
>              Richard Nute:           ri...@ieee.org
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>      majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>      unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>      Jim Bacher:              jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com
>      Michael Garretson:        pstc_ad...@garretson.org
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
>      Richard Nute:           ri...@ieee.org
>
>


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I'm not sure if this message got out the first time so I'm resending it. My
apologies if you received it twice. Please note the conferences do have
different names.

Planning for our NEBS Symposium 2000 began even before NEBS '99 was
finished. This year the symposium is being co-sponsored by U.S. West and
Underwriters Laboratories.  Together our objective is to bring the
conference to a new level by providing topics leading to a more in-depth
understanding NEBS tests and test methods (like the science behind
vibration testing),  providing a broader perspective of NEBS issues (RBOCs,
CLECs, international service providers, manufacturers) and covering hot
topics of interest to the NEBS community like TL9000 (we're even including
a QuEST sanctioned TL9000 seminar as one of the 8 half-day track options!).
Of course there will also be topics covering emc issues, fire, airborne
contaminants as well as project planning, test plans, customer requirements
and the like. We certainly believe that the US West / UL NEBS Symposium
2000 will provide a fresh new perspective of NEBS compliance issues facing
the industry while providing the practical information you can utilize
immediately in your daily activities.

It is unfortunate that a conflict has arisen with the planning of the Bell
Atlantic / Telcordia seminar but this was beyond our control. Although
there is some overlap in the basic principles that will be covered, I think
that you will find that there is enough to differentiate the two
conferences, allowing you to make a decision on which to attend based on
your current level of understanding of NEBS requirements and issues and
what you plan to take away from the conference. Our vision for the 2000
symposium reflects our desire to raise the level of understanding of NEBS
compliance issues across the industry as a whole.

Randy Ivans
Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
Melville, NY 11747
TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
FAX: 631-439-6096
NOTE NEW AREA CODE FOR UL MELVILLE!
email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com




                    n...@world.st
                    d.com                To:     "'nebs@world.std.com'"
                                         <nebs@world.std.com>
                    03/16/00             cc:     (bcc: Randolph J.
Ivans/MEL/ULI)
                    08:29 AM             Subject:     RE: NEBS 2000
Conference







Don,

     The details are on the Telcordia and UL web sites.  I believe the
intent of these are to be more of a conference than a seminar - interaction
between the manufacturers, test labs and RBOC's - as opposed to a training
session.

     http://www.800teachme.com/nebsconference.html
     http://www.ul.com/seminars/newseminar.htm

     I would prefer to attend both although, by "coincidence", they seem
to be on the same dates.  Can anyone shed some light onto the history
behind
this situation and if anyone might be changing their dates?

Thx,


Joe

********************************************


Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Foster Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel: (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax: (508) 480-0922
Email:    jfinlay...@telica.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Don House [mailto:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:24 PM
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conference


Joe, and list members,

I am not sure about the NEBS 2000 seminars.  I would like to receive
information on them.
I am signed up for the NEBS by MET Seminar and Workshop to be held in Union
City, CA on April 12-13, 2000
Keynote Speaker is Chuck Graft of Bell Atlantic

Don

Don Robert House
Member Technical Staff
Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
2195 Faraday Avenue, Suite C
Carlsbad, CA 92008
(760) 476-1511
(760) 476-1519 FAX
URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:05 PM
To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'
Subject: NEBS 2000 Conference



     I couldn't help but notice that there are two NEBS 2000 conferences
this year - on the exact same dates.  UL and Telcordia/Bell Atlantic are
both sponsoring what appears to be the same event and, in some cases,
claiming the same representatives will be there.  Does anyone have any
insight to what's going on here?  I'm definitely going to one,
but..........

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>>

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel: (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax: (508) 480-0922
Email:    jfinlay...@telica.com
Web: www.telica.com



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From - Fri Mar 17 04:58:46 2000
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From: JIM WIESE <jim.wi...@adtran.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Framework Criteria
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:00:56 -0600
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Thanks Randy,

I was fully aware of the GR-63 section called NEBS 2000 written in 1995, but
for 2-3 years Telcordia has said we should blow it off and all the labs have
been told to say it is not applicable in NEBS reports.

I thought someone might be working on an entire "industry standard" called
NEBS 2000 or something to that affect.  

Thanks for the clarification,
Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 140000
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com 

> ----------
> From:         randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com[SMTP:randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com]
> Sent:         Thursday, March 16, 2000 3:24 PM
> To:   nebs@world.std.com
> Subject:      RE: NEBS 2000 Framework Criteria
> 
> <<File: Headers.822>>
> 
> 
> 
> Jim,
> The following is from GR-63:
> "NEBS-2000 Framework Criteria
> This section presents new generic requirements for the physical design of
> cabinets and
> frameworks to help simplify planning and installation, ensure adequate
> physical strength,
> and provide uniformity between suppliers of telecommunications and
> computer
> equipment.
> These requirements may be used in place of the frame dimensions and
> strength criteria of
> Section 2. .......
> 
> ......... In summary, this section presents the criteria for a new frame
> to
> ? Coincide with current national and international standards
> ? Be used with current and future network equipment
> ? Provide improved compatibility between equipment suppliers' products
> ? Provide capabilities for raised-floor and concrete-floor installations
> ? Provide cable access from overhead or below the floor
> ? Improve physical strength and earthquake resistance
> ? Improve the accessibility to equipment and hardware during maintenance."
> 
> Randy Ivans
> Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
> Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
> 1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
> Melville, NY 11747
> TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
> FAX: 631-439-6096
> NOTE NEW AREA CODE FOR UL MELVILLE!
> email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                     n...@world.st
>                     d.com                To:     "'CHRIS WELLBORN'"
>                                          <chris.wellb...@adtran.com>,
> "NEBS
> Forum"
>                     03/16/00             <NEBS@world.std.com>, "EMC-PSTC
> Forum"
>                     01:31 PM             <emc-p...@ieee.org>, "Gary
> McInturff"
>                                          <gmcintu...@telect.com>
>                                          cc:     (bcc: Randolph J.
> Ivans/MEL/ULI)
>                                          Subject:     RE: NEBS 2000
> Conferences
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could someone enlighten me on what is meant by "NEBS 2000 requirements"?
> Is
> there some sort of standards work going on here?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> Jim Wiese
> NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
> ADTRAN, INC.
> 901 Explorer Blvd.
> P.O. Box 140000
> Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
> 256-963-8431
> 256-963-8250 fax
> jim.wi...@adtran.com
> 
> > ----------
> > From:   Gary McInturff[SMTP:gmcintu...@telect.com]
> March 16, 2000 11:54 AM
> > To:     'CHRIS WELLBORN'; NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum
> > Subject:     RE: NEBS 2000 Conferences
> >
> >
> >         Both Telecordia and UL are test houses that can deal with
> > NEBS testing. Telcordia has probably been at it longer than UL and used
> to
> > be a part of MA Bell, and then Bell Labs. UL in the last couple of years
> > has
> > been putting on NEBS seminars at which all of the RBOC's Bell Atlantic,
> US
> > West, SWB, and all of the others were panelist. UL hosted it and
> > Telecordia
> > was in the crowd with the rest of us. During these seminars if anyone
> was
> > to
> > take a more stringent interpretation or to add requirements not in the
> > NEBS
> > documents that tended to be Bell Atlantic.
> >    The timing of these two seminars sounds a whole lot political to me,
> > and that may be much more interesting than who hosts the conference. In
> > particular when you consider that the NEBS 2000 requirements have been a
> > bit
> > of a political football, with Bell Atlantic in particular not wanting
> > manufacturing input into the standard. The stated reason was they felt
> it
> > would slow the process down. Certainly, a possibility but I would
> > encourage
> > you to draw you own conclusions.
> >    If there isn't something else afoot here then I would point out that
> > I would much rather be in Las Vegas in October than Baltimore.
> >    Gary
> >
> >
> >         -----Original Message-----
> >         From:     CHRIS WELLBORN [mailto:chris.wellb...@adtran.com]
> >         Sent:     Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:01 AM
> >         To:  NEBS Forum; EMC-PSTC Forum
> >         Subject:  NEBS 2000 Conferences
> >
> >
> >         I would just like to share some information that I obtained
> > this morning
> >         concerning the above conferences.
> >
> >         Telcordia and Bell Atlantic will be hosting the NEBS
> > conference in Baltimore
> >         on October 4-5, 2000.  The preliminary agenda and key
> > speakers are shown at
> >         the following website:
> >
> >         http://www.800teachme.com/nebsagenda.html
> >
> >         Underwriters Laboratories and US West will be hosting a NEBS
> > 2000 conference
> >         in Las Vegas on October 4-6, 2000.  The preliminary agenda
> > and key speakers
> >         will be provided on their website in the near future.  I was
> > informed that
> >         Michael Bentley from US West will be one of the chairmen for
> > this
> >         conference.
> >
> >         Which one should you attend?
> >
> >         Future details will be available at both the Telcordia and
> > UL websites.
> >
> >         Chris Wellborn
> >         Regulatory Compliance Engineer
> >         ADTRAN
> >         Voice: (256) 963-8906
> >
> >
> >
> >         -------------------------------------------
> >         This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> >         Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> >
> >         To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
> >              majord...@ieee.org
> >         with the single line:
> >              unsubscribe emc-pstc
> >
> >         For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> >              Jim Bacher:              jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com
> >              Michael Garretson:        pstc_ad...@garretson.org
> >
> >         For policy questions, send mail to:
> >              Richard Nute:           ri...@ieee.org
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> >
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> >
> > For policy questions, send mail to:
> >      Richard Nute:           ri...@ieee.org
> >
> >
> 
> 
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From - Wed Mar 22 05:18:59 2000
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From: David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
To: "'t...@world.std.com'" <t...@world.std.com>,
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Subject: GR-78-CORE
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Hey All,
Does anyone have a help desk contact at Telcordia for GR-78-CORE PCB
requirements.  I have not yet found a satisfactory answer to the questions
regarding silver and tin immersion plating options.
Thanks,
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
(503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com

From - Wed Mar 22 05:20:23 2000
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From: Bandele Adepoju <badep...@jetstream.com>
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Try Tony Ali of Telcordia at 732-758-3017/m...@telcordia.com. 
He is said to be quite knowledgeable on GR-78 matters.

Regards,

Bandele 
Jetstream Communications, Inc.
badep...@jetstream.com



-----Original Message-----
From: David Spencer [mailto:dspen...@oresis.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 4:34 PM
To: 't...@world.std.com'; Nebs List Serve (E-mail)
Subject: GR-78-CORE


Hey All,
Does anyone have a help desk contact at Telcordia for GR-78-CORE PCB
requirements.  I have not yet found a satisfactory answer to the questions
regarding silver and tin immersion plating options.
Thanks,
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
(503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com

From - Thu Mar 23 05:17:42 2000
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Hello everyone,

So I don't have to re-invent the wheel, does anyone know of a table or
listing that cross-references the NEBS requirements (GR-63/78/1089, etc.)
to the corresponding ETS 300019 requirements. It would be very nice if this
resource would also note any differences, additions or subtractions one
from the other.

Anyone know of such a resource? If so, please be kind enough to point me in
that direction. Thank you.

Best regards,
Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com


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From: Joe Finlayson <jfinlay...@telica.com>
To: "'NEBS Newsgroup'" <NEBS@world.std.com>, "'EMC PSTC'" <emc-p...@ieee.org>
Subject: Lightning Surge Equipment
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        I am trying to gather information on equipment capable of
performing, at minimum, the lightning tests of Bellcore GR-1089-CORE 4.5.9,
Intrabuilding Lightning Surge.  I am specifically interested in opinions of
different equipment, cost and extent of functionality (is there a cost
savings for equipment whose functionality is limited to this test?).  Any
input on used equipment would also be helpful.  I am initially interested in
pre-test if that makes a difference.  Any input would be greatly
appreciated.

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>> 

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com

From - Thu Mar 23 19:40:51 2000
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From: David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
To: "Nebs List Serve (E-mail)" <nebs@world.std.com>
Subject: RBOC Requirements
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Hi All,
I am looking for the nebs requirements documents produced by the various
RBOC's.  I have the one for Bell Atlantic, but have been unable to find the
others.
Thanks
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
(503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com

From - Thu Mar 23 19:40:52 2000
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From: David Spencer <dspen...@oresis.com>
To: "'nebs@world.std.com'" <nebs@world.std.com>,
        "'EMC PSTC'"
         <emc-p...@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: Lightning Surge Equipment
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Joe,
If you are only going to do intrabuilding, you can get away with just about
anything capable of the 1.2/50uSec wave form (see the provision in the GR
for using this waveshape with series resistors).  I am just now setting up a
lab here and decided to go with Schaffner NSG2050, because it would be an
easy module addition should we decide to do outside plant in the future.
With the CDN, mainframe, module and 1089 box it was ~34K.

Again, if you only want intrabuilding, Keytec makes a product called the CE
master for about 17K that will do the waveshape.  Keep in touch off line and
I will let you know how it all works out once I have played with it (oops, I
mean, executed some test plans ;) for a while.
Dave Spencer
Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 6:16 AM
To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'; 'EMC PSTC'
Subject: Lightning Surge Equipment



        I am trying to gather information on equipment capable of
performing, at minimum, the lightning tests of Bellcore GR-1089-CORE 4.5.9,
Intrabuilding Lightning Surge.  I am specifically interested in opinions of
different equipment, cost and extent of functionality (is there a cost
savings for equipment whose functionality is limited to this test?).  Any
input on used equipment would also be helpful.  I am initially interested in
pre-test if that makes a difference.  Any input would be greatly
appreciated.

Thx,


Joe

*********************************
 <<...>> 

Joe Finlayson
Manager, Compliance Engineering
Telica, Inc.
734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel:    (508) 480-0909 x212
Fax:    (508) 480-0922
Email:  jfinlay...@telica.com
Web:    www.telica.com

From - Thu Mar 23 19:41:11 2000
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contact Rod Morgan at NTS for a complete copy of all the latest.

r...@ntscorp.com



David Spencer wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I am looking for the nebs requirements documents produced by the various
> RBOC's.  I have the one for Bell Atlantic, but have been unable to find the
> others.
> Thanks
> Dave Spencer
> Compliance Engineer
> Oresis Communications, Inc.
> 14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
> (503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
> http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com

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From: plaw...@west.net (Patrick Lawler)
To: <NEBS@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning Surge Equipment
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:11:49 -0800
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On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:16:04 -0500, Joe Finlayson
<jfinlay...@telica.com> wrote:
>I am trying to gather information on equipment capable of
>performing, at minimum, the lightning tests of Bellcore GR-1089-CORE 4.5.9,
>Intrabuilding Lightning Surge.
 ... "at minimum"
 - the minimum test voltage shown, or
 - at least this style test (preferably, additional style tests)

In Table 4-4, Note 5, it says that IEEE C62.41 generators can be used
for this test.  IEC 61000-4-5 Surge generators also generate this
waveform, although the series current limiting resistors are
different.
Given these additional standard references, there should be lots of
equipment choices capable of this test.

However, if you want to perform surge tests on the AC Power Port as
well (section 4.5.10), be sure the unit can generate the higher
voltages in Table 4-5.

<snip>

From - Thu Mar 23 19:41:25 2000
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We have the SBC and AT&T ones posted in the guest center on our web site at
www.curtis-straus.com.

David Spencer wrote:

> Hi All,
> I am looking for the nebs requirements documents produced by the various
> RBOC's.  I have the one for Bell Atlantic, but have been unable to find the
> others.
> Thanks
> Dave Spencer
> Compliance Engineer
> Oresis Communications, Inc.
> 14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
> (503)533-0717 Dir: (503)466-6289  Fax: (503)533-8233
> http://www.oresis.com  dspen...@oresis.com

--
Jon D. Curtis, P.E.

Director of Engineering
Curtis-Straus LLC

One Stop Laboratory for EMC, Product Safety,
and Telecom Testing.
527 Great Road
Littleton, MA 01460 USA
Voice 978-486-8880  Fax 978-486-8828
email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com
WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM


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From: Don House <dho...@excelsus-tech.com>
To: nebs@world.std.com
Subject: RE: Lightning Surge Equipment
List-Post: nebs@world.std.com
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THere is some KEYTEK equipment for sale on ebaY with all of the "trimmings"
CHECK IT OUT... ONLY $4,500 when I last looked.

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: plaw...@west.net [mailto:plaw...@west.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 9:12 AM
To: NEBS@world.std.com
Subject: Re: Lightning Surge Equipment


On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:16:04 -0500, Joe Finlayson
<jfinlay...@telica.com> wrote:
>I am trying to gather information on equipment capable of
>performing, at minimum, the lightning tests of Bellcore GR-1089-CORE 4.5.9,
>Intrabuilding Lightning Surge.
 ... "at minimum"
 - the minimum test voltage shown, or
 - at least this style test (preferably, additional style tests)

In Table 4-4, Note 5, it says that IEEE C62.41 generators can be used
for this test.  IEC 61000-4-5 Surge generators also generate this
waveform, although the series current limiting resistors are
different.
Given these additional standard references, there should be lots of
equipment choices capable of this test.

However, if you want to perform surge tests on the AC Power Port as
well (section 4.5.10), be sure the unit can generate the higher
voltages in Table 4-5.

<snip>

From - Mon Mar 27 19:25:47 2000
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From: Mike  Hopkins <mhopk...@keytek.com>
To: "'David Spencer'" <dspen...@oresis.com>,
        "'nebs@world.std.com'"
         <nebs@world.std.com>,
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Cc: Mike Giallongo <mgiallo...@keytek.com>,
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Subject: RE: Lightning Surge Equipment
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Bellcore 4.5.9 Intrabuilding lightning calls for testing with 2/10us waves,
but as David says, allows for the use of resistor networks added on to a
1.2/50us generator. 2/10 generators for both 2 and 4 wire applications are
available for roughly the same price David paid for the Schaffner unit, plus
they can be expanded to perform the other Bellcore tests as well. The KeyTek
generator mentioned is much less expensive but then you need to build the
resistor networks to meet the spec -- 

You may find it difficult to get the power resistors required: they need to
be non-inductive and capable of handling both the voltage (>1500V) plus the
100A surge currents. 

Let me know if you need help there.

Mike Hopkins
KeyTek

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Spencer [SMTP:dspen...@oresis.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:16 AM
> To:   'nebs@world.std.com'; 'EMC PSTC'
> Subject:      RE: Lightning Surge Equipment
> 
> 
> Joe,
> If you are only going to do intrabuilding, you can get away with just
> about
> anything capable of the 1.2/50uSec wave form (see the provision in the GR
> for using this waveshape with series resistors).  I am just now setting up
> a
> lab here and decided to go with Schaffner NSG2050, because it would be an
> easy module addition should we decide to do outside plant in the future.
> With the CDN, mainframe, module and 1089 box it was ~34K.
> 
> Again, if you only want intrabuilding, Keytec makes a product called the
> CE
> master for about 17K that will do the waveshape.  Keep in touch off line
> and
> I will let you know how it all works out once I have played with it (oops,
> I
> mean, executed some test plans ;) for a while.
> Dave Spencer
> Compliance Engineer
> Oresis Communications
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 6:16 AM
> To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'; 'EMC PSTC'
> Subject: Lightning Surge Equipment
> 
> 
> 
>       I am trying to gather information on equipment capable of
> performing, at minimum, the lightning tests of Bellcore GR-1089-CORE
> 4.5.9,
> Intrabuilding Lightning Surge.  I am specifically interested in opinions
> of
> different equipment, cost and extent of functionality (is there a cost
> savings for equipment whose functionality is limited to this test?).  Any
> input on used equipment would also be helpful.  I am initially interested
> in
> pre-test if that makes a difference.  Any input would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> Thx,
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
> *********************************
>  <<...>> 
> 
> Joe Finlayson
> Manager, Compliance Engineering
> Telica, Inc.
> 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> Marlboro, MA 01752
> Tel:  (508) 480-0909 x212
> Fax:  (508) 480-0922
> Email:        jfinlay...@telica.com
> Web:  www.telica.com
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
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From - Mon Mar 27 19:26:51 2000
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:45:38 -0800
To: nebs@world.std.com
From: Kamran Mohajer <kmoha...@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conference
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Randy,

Are you still looking for presenters for NEBS 2000?  If so, I am interested to 
present a topic from manufacture's point of view.

Thanks,
At 04:48 PM 3/16/00 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>I'm not sure if this message got out the first time so I'm resending it. My
>apologies if you received it twice. Please note the conferences do have
>different names.
>
>Planning for our NEBS Symposium 2000 began even before NEBS '99 was
>finished. This year the symposium is being co-sponsored by U.S. West and
>Underwriters Laboratories.  Together our objective is to bring the
>conference to a new level by providing topics leading to a more in-depth
>understanding NEBS tests and test methods (like the science behind
>vibration testing),  providing a broader perspective of NEBS issues (RBOCs,
>CLECs, international service providers, manufacturers) and covering hot
>topics of interest to the NEBS community like TL9000 (we're even including
>a QuEST sanctioned TL9000 seminar as one of the 8 half-day track options!).
>Of course there will also be topics covering emc issues, fire, airborne
>contaminants as well as project planning, test plans, customer requirements
>and the like. We certainly believe that the US West / UL NEBS Symposium
>2000 will provide a fresh new perspective of NEBS compliance issues facing
>the industry while providing the practical information you can utilize
>immediately in your daily activities.
>
>It is unfortunate that a conflict has arisen with the planning of the Bell
>Atlantic / Telcordia seminar but this was beyond our control. Although
>there is some overlap in the basic principles that will be covered, I think
>that you will find that there is enough to differentiate the two
>conferences, allowing you to make a decision on which to attend based on
>your current level of understanding of NEBS requirements and issues and
>what you plan to take away from the conference. Our vision for the 2000
>symposium reflects our desire to raise the level of understanding of NEBS
>compliance issues across the industry as a whole.
>
>Randy Ivans
>Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
>Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
>1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
>Melville, NY 11747
>TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
>FAX: 631-439-6096
>NOTE NEW AREA CODE FOR UL MELVILLE!
>email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com
>
>
>
>
>                    n...@world.st
>                    d.com                To:     "'nebs@world.std.com'"
>                                         <nebs@world.std.com>
>                    03/16/00             cc:     (bcc: Randolph J.
>Ivans/MEL/ULI)
>                    08:29 AM             Subject:     RE: NEBS 2000
>Conference
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Don,
>
>     The details are on the Telcordia and UL web sites.  I believe the
>intent of these are to be more of a conference than a seminar - interaction
>between the manufacturers, test labs and RBOC's - as opposed to a training
>session.
>
>     http://www.800teachme.com/nebsconference.html
>     http://www.ul.com/seminars/newseminar.htm
>
>     I would prefer to attend both although, by "coincidence", they seem
>to be on the same dates.  Can anyone shed some light onto the history
>behind
>this situation and if anyone might be changing their dates?
>
>Thx,
>
>
>Joe
>
>********************************************
>
>
>Joe Finlayson
>Manager, Compliance Engineering
>Telica, Inc.
>734 Foster Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
>Marlboro, MA 01752
>Tel: (508) 480-0909 x212
>Fax: (508) 480-0922
>Email:    jfinlay...@telica.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Don House [mailto:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:24 PM
>To: nebs@world.std.com
>Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conference
>
>
>Joe, and list members,
>
>I am not sure about the NEBS 2000 seminars.  I would like to receive
>information on them.
>I am signed up for the NEBS by MET Seminar and Workshop to be held in Union
>City, CA on April 12-13, 2000
>Keynote Speaker is Chuck Graft of Bell Atlantic
>
>Don
>
>Don Robert House
>Member Technical Staff
>Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
>2195 Faraday Avenue, Suite C
>Carlsbad, CA 92008
>(760) 476-1511
>(760) 476-1519 FAX
>URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:05 PM
>To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'
>Subject: NEBS 2000 Conference
>
>
>
>     I couldn't help but notice that there are two NEBS 2000 conferences
>this year - on the exact same dates.  UL and Telcordia/Bell Atlantic are
>both sponsoring what appears to be the same event and, in some cases,
>claiming the same representatives will be there.  Does anyone have any
>insight to what's going on here?  I'm definitely going to one,
>but..........
>
>Thx,
>
>
>Joe
>
>*********************************
> <<...>>
>
>Joe Finlayson
>Manager, Compliance Engineering
>Telica, Inc.
>734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
>Marlboro, MA 01752
>Tel: (508) 480-0909 x212
>Fax: (508) 480-0922
>Email:    jfinlay...@telica.com
>Web: www.telica.com
>
>
>
>(See attached file: Headers.822)
>******************************* Internet E-mail Confidentiality
>Disclaimer***********************************
>
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>
>UL does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus
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>****************************************************************************
>**************************************
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>*********  Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer **********
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***********************************************************************************
Kamran Mohajer
Project Manager/
Aggregation Compliance Lead
Cisco Systems, Inc.
Phone(408)-525-6121
Fax(408)527-0495
kmoha...@cisco.com
***********************************************************************************

From - Mon Mar 27 19:26:56 2000
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:58:34 -0800
To: nebs@world.std.com
From: Greg Rocha <grro...@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conference
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Hey Kam -

What are you gonna say?  Will we have input?  

Greg

At 10:45 AM 3/24/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Randy,
>
>Are you still looking for presenters for NEBS 2000?  If so, I am interested to 
>present a topic from manufacture's point of view.
>
>Thanks,
>At 04:48 PM 3/16/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>I'm not sure if this message got out the first time so I'm resending it. My
>>apologies if you received it twice. Please note the conferences do have
>>different names.
>>
>>Planning for our NEBS Symposium 2000 began even before NEBS '99 was
>>finished. This year the symposium is being co-sponsored by U.S. West and
>>Underwriters Laboratories.  Together our objective is to bring the
>>conference to a new level by providing topics leading to a more in-depth
>>understanding NEBS tests and test methods (like the science behind
>>vibration testing),  providing a broader perspective of NEBS issues (RBOCs,
>>CLECs, international service providers, manufacturers) and covering hot
>>topics of interest to the NEBS community like TL9000 (we're even including
>>a QuEST sanctioned TL9000 seminar as one of the 8 half-day track options!).
>>Of course there will also be topics covering emc issues, fire, airborne
>>contaminants as well as project planning, test plans, customer requirements
>>and the like. We certainly believe that the US West / UL NEBS Symposium
>>2000 will provide a fresh new perspective of NEBS compliance issues facing
>>the industry while providing the practical information you can utilize
>>immediately in your daily activities.
>>
>>It is unfortunate that a conflict has arisen with the planning of the Bell
>>Atlantic / Telcordia seminar but this was beyond our control. Although
>>there is some overlap in the basic principles that will be covered, I think
>>that you will find that there is enough to differentiate the two
>>conferences, allowing you to make a decision on which to attend based on
>>your current level of understanding of NEBS requirements and issues and
>>what you plan to take away from the conference. Our vision for the 2000
>>symposium reflects our desire to raise the level of understanding of NEBS
>>compliance issues across the industry as a whole.
>>
>>Randy Ivans
>>Global Program Manager -Telecommunications
>>Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
>>1285 Walt Whitman Rd.
>>Melville, NY 11747
>>TEL: 631-271-6200; Ext. 22269
>>FAX: 631-439-6096
>>NOTE NEW AREA CODE FOR UL MELVILLE!
>>email: randolph.j.iv...@us.ul.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                    n...@world.st
>>                    d.com                To:     "'nebs@world.std.com'"
>>                                         <nebs@world.std.com>
>>                    03/16/00             cc:     (bcc: Randolph J.
>>Ivans/MEL/ULI)
>>                    08:29 AM             Subject:     RE: NEBS 2000
>>Conference
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Don,
>>
>>     The details are on the Telcordia and UL web sites.  I believe the
>>intent of these are to be more of a conference than a seminar - interaction
>>between the manufacturers, test labs and RBOC's - as opposed to a training
>>session.
>>
>>     http://www.800teachme.com/nebsconference.html
>>     http://www.ul.com/seminars/newseminar.htm
>>
>>     I would prefer to attend both although, by "coincidence", they seem
>>to be on the same dates.  Can anyone shed some light onto the history
>>behind
>>this situation and if anyone might be changing their dates?
>>
>>Thx,
>>
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>********************************************
>>
>>
>>Joe Finlayson
>>Manager, Compliance Engineering
>>Telica, Inc.
>>734 Foster Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
>>Marlboro, MA 01752
>>Tel: (508) 480-0909 x212
>>Fax: (508) 480-0922
>>Email:    jfinlay...@telica.com
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Don House [mailto:dho...@excelsus-tech.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:24 PM
>>To: nebs@world.std.com
>>Subject: RE: NEBS 2000 Conference
>>
>>
>>Joe, and list members,
>>
>>I am not sure about the NEBS 2000 seminars.  I would like to receive
>>information on them.
>>I am signed up for the NEBS by MET Seminar and Workshop to be held in Union
>>City, CA on April 12-13, 2000
>>Keynote Speaker is Chuck Graft of Bell Atlantic
>>
>>Don
>>
>>Don Robert House
>>Member Technical Staff
>>Excelsus Technologies, Inc.
>>2195 Faraday Avenue, Suite C
>>Carlsbad, CA 92008
>>(760) 476-1511
>>(760) 476-1519 FAX
>>URL: http://www.excelsus-tech.com
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:05 PM
>>To: 'NEBS Newsgroup'
>>Subject: NEBS 2000 Conference
>>
>>
>>
>>     I couldn't help but notice that there are two NEBS 2000 conferences
>>this year - on the exact same dates.  UL and Telcordia/Bell Atlantic are
>>both sponsoring what appears to be the same event and, in some cases,
>>claiming the same representatives will be there.  Does anyone have any
>>insight to what's going on here?  I'm definitely going to one,
>>but..........
>>
>>Thx,
>>
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>*********************************
>> <<...>>
>>
>>Joe Finlayson
>>Manager, Compliance Engineering
>>Telica, Inc.
>>734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
>>Marlboro, MA 01752
>>Tel: (508) 480-0909 x212
>>Fax: (508) 480-0922
>>Email:    jfinlay...@telica.com
>>Web: www.telica.com
>>
>>
>>
>>(See attached file: Headers.822)
>>******************************* Internet E-mail Confidentiality
>>Disclaimer***********************************
>>
>>This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information.  If
>>you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
>>distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way.  If
>>you received this e-mail message in error, please delete the e-mail and any
>>attachments and notify Underwriters Laboratories Inc. at
>>e-mail_disclai...@us.ul.com.
>>
>>UL does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus
>>in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result
>>of e-mail transmission.
>>
>>****************************************************************************
>>**************************************
>>
>>*********  Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer **********
>>
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>>message in error, please delete the e-mail and any attachments
>>and notify Underwriters Laboratories Inc. at
>>e-mail_disclai...@us.ul.com.
>>
>>UL does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption
>>or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that
>>arise as a result of e-mail transmission.
>>**************************************************************************
>>
>
>****************************************************************************
>*******
>Kamran Mohajer
>Project Manager/
>Aggregation Compliance Lead
>Cisco Systems, Inc.
>Phone(408)-525-6121
>Fax(408)527-0495
>kmoha...@cisco.com
>****************************************************************************
>*******
>


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Tajudeen Oladele wrote:

Hi all,

Can anybody throw more light on the intention of Telecordia (BELLCORE)
on the requirement
under this section as applicable to network equipment on short loops
that may be influenced by metallic noise.

From - Tue Mar 28 19:33:32 2000
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Tajudeen Oladele wrote:

Hi all,

Can anybody throw more light on the intention of Telecordia (BELLCORE)
on the requirement under this section as applicable to network equipment
on short loops
that may be influenced by metallic noise.

Thanks in anticipation of your response.
Tajudeen Oladele