comp.lang.java.programmer http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Today's topics: * looking for high-level web development tools - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/b726dc72d5129bda * dynamically change struts' form's action - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/bc28d63a3a8fb854 * Tool for visual develop web forms in Java - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/5e4381ceb0623b7d * java.lang.OutOfMemoryError - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/7dfb5d2d1250de90 * finalize() question - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/fee9f666cf363dd0 * option-<key> in jEdit Syntax Package - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/2de15a3e19bdc999 * java/oracle - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/a70e12f4966ca467 * an Array of ArrayLists in Java 5 - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/3d38a569377953bf * When I use setFont( ) method to set the string'sfont, the result font is another one. - 2 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/bc656b18a2c6cc1 * How do you write to text files WITHOUT OVERWRITING? - 4 messages, 3 authors http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/6f3671c3a6cf1cdd * interesting thin-client problem - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/df226049f75e9516 * run question. - 2 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/91d24a63573e185f * question on alternate function declaration syntax - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/262cda26dd0d5c13 * Tomcat 5.0.28 and MS-SQL Databases - 2 messages, 1 author http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/c466f8b6a6d958a7 * Why pay for VS.NET when JAVA is Free? - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/3375ad9fa31f8e34 ============================================================================== TOPIC: looking for high-level web development tools http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/b726dc72d5129bda ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 2:59 pm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Try NitroX for JSP and Struts. It's based on Eclipse and is available on Linux and Windows. A pix is worth 1k words. Checkout these images: http://www.m7.com/tiles.htm http://www.m7.com/Struts_Validation_Framework.htm http://www.m7.com/debug_JSP.htm http://www.m7.com/topten.do -Carlos unixhack.blogspot.com wrote: > Hello, > > Does anybody know of a tool that can help me be more > productive when creating a web-based interface? I am > currently using JSP and servlets, and it seems to me > that I'm writing a lot of redundant stuff. I suspect > that I'm not enough of an Objects guru, but that is > probably best left for another post :-) > > Problem description: > I need to implement a rather complicated web interface > to replace a data gathering tool currently semi-implemented > on Excel-VBscript (or so they tell me, I'm totally useless > when it comes to Microsoft development tools). The tool > is like a very complicated wizard with lots of steps, > and the UI that appears at the nth step will depend on > what the user entered at steps 1... n-1. > > Finally, I want to be able to send the end results to a > database. > > I looked at Struts/Tiles some time ago, but it seemes that > to use them you have to already be a JSP/servlets ultra-expert, > which I'm not quite. (At least that was the case with > all the documentation and books I found/bought -- if there > is a more newbie-oriented website or book please let me > know). > > Also looked at IBM's WebSphere product, but > it seems a little overkill for what I'm trying to do. > > So, what other tools are available for creating complicated > web interfaces? > > (Note that I'm not talking about the HTML part -- I'm quite > happy with writing the HTML on "vi" myself. What I need is to > be able to manage the link between web forms/servlets/database > more efficiently.) > > Well, I hope this all makes some sense. Thanks for having read > this far and thanks in advance for any help, > > Ernesto ============================================================================== TOPIC: dynamically change struts' form's action http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/bc28d63a3a8fb854 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 3:31 pm From: "ctyberg" I'd like to dynamically change the form's action based on a request parameter. For ex. <c:if test="${param.isNew == 'true'}> <html:form action="/saveNew.do" > </c:if> <c:if test="${param.isNew == 'false'}> <html:form action="/saveExisting.do" > </c:if> However, the above would generate a nesting error since the form's end tag is not within the c:if tag. How else can I achieve the same idea? Any ideas? ============================================================================== TOPIC: Tool for visual develop web forms in Java http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/5e4381ceb0623b7d ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 3:02 pm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tools-wise, NitroX for JSP has the best visual JSP support available. Including debugging JSPs directly, jsp:includes, and support for Struts Tiles. Screenshots here: http://www.m7.com/topten.do good luck, -Carlos ============================================================================== TOPIC: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/7dfb5d2d1250de90 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 11:34 pm From: Alex Kizub > Statement stmt = cx.createStatement(); > FileReader fr = new FileReader( file ); > BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader( fr ); > String lineData = null; > String insertStatementSQL = ""; > while ( (lineData = br.readLine()) != null ) { > .... > stmt.addBatch(insertStatementSQL); > } > > int returnValueIntArray[] = stmt.executeBatch(); That's exactly memory leak. You collect all statements for whole entire request in one batch. Do stmt.executeBatch() inside cycle. For example each 1000 steps. Alex Kizub. ============================================================================== TOPIC: finalize() question http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/fee9f666cf363dd0 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 11:44 pm From: "Mike Schilling" "Michael Borgwardt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Andrea Desole wrote: > >> From what I've seen here I understand that an object can be reachable >> and finalized. How is it supposed to be used, then? Should I check, for >> every method, that the object hasn't been finalized? > > No, you just should misuse finalize() like that. That is you should *not* misuse finalize() like that (which I'm sure is what Michael meant to type.) > >> Wouldn't it be better to finalize it when it's sure that it's not going >> to be used? > > That's *exactly* what happens. The problem is that it's possible to > re-introduce the object to "might still be used" status *in* the > finalize() > method. As in static List theList; protected void finalize() { theList.add(this); // This is a truly bad idea } ============================================================================== TOPIC: option-<key> in jEdit Syntax Package http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/2de15a3e19bdc999 ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 3:48 pm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For the archives, I founded it. In the method keyTyped of DefaultInputHandler.java there's this suspicious if(c != KeyEvent.CHAR_UNDEFINED && (modifiers & KeyEvent.ALT_MASK) == 0) I just commented out the second condition. Nothing seems broken by now. -- fxn ============================================================================== TOPIC: java/oracle http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/a70e12f4966ca467 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Tues, Dec 14 2004 1:02 am From: "Wojtek D." Did somebody write some fine program in java for database oracle(or diffrent database) like library, etc..., and can get it for me. Thank you for any info. Wojtek D. == 2 of 2 == Date: Tues, Dec 14 2004 1:45 am From: Michael Rauscher Wojtek D. wrote: > Did somebody write some fine program in java for database oracle(or > diffrent database) like library, etc..., > and can get it for me. Yes. The library is called Oracle JDBC driver which implements the JDBC API. The library is provided by Oracle, you can download it on their web site. Bye Michael ============================================================================== TOPIC: an Array of ArrayLists in Java 5 http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/3d38a569377953bf ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 6:10 pm From: "Ryan Stewart" "Gary Newell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] > ArrayList arrayListDoubles[] = new ArrayList [ 5 ]; [...] > arrayListDoubles[0].add( new Double( "100" ) ); [...] > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > C:\temp>javac -d . -Xlint:unchecked *.java > arrayOfArrayLists.java:13: warning: [unchecked] unchecked call to add(E) > as > a member of the raw type java.util.ArrayList > arrayListDoubles[0].add( new Double( "100" ) ); > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Specify a type for the ArrayList: ArrayList<Double>[] arrayListDoubles = new ArrayList<Double>[5]; ============================================================================== TOPIC: When I use setFont( ) method to set the string'sfont, the result font is another one. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/bc656b18a2c6cc1 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 4:25 pm From: "Bruce Sam" I have tested my java project in four or five PC machine.The problem is same.So I thinked it is may be another reason that I don't know. == 2 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 4:32 pm From: "Bruce Sam" Thanks.I only use alphanumeric.The problem happen in two bean integrated together.If I only use typer bean,the font display normal.So I thinked the reason may be another one.But I can't find the answer now and I am still debuging it.This is a very difficult problem. ============================================================================== TOPIC: How do you write to text files WITHOUT OVERWRITING? http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/6f3671c3a6cf1cdd ============================================================================== == 1 of 4 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 4:26 pm From: "javajavalink" I am relatively new to java and have already tried many ways to write to text files with Java. Is there any way to write to a text file without overwriting what is already there?? == 2 of 4 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 5:40 pm From: Rob javajavalink wrote: > I am relatively new to java and have already tried many ways to write > to text files with Java. Is there any way to write to a text file > without overwriting what is already there?? > -You could append to the file, using something like: BufferedWriter out = new BufferedWriter(new FileWriter("filename", true)); -You could look up RandomFileAccess -You could read the file into a String, manipulate the string and write it back out. == 3 of 4 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 5:02 pm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you create a new instance of a FileReader with just the filename, then that file will be erased if it is already there. You can use the constructor of FileReader that accepts the filename and a boolean. If the boolean is true, then the file will be appended. == 4 of 4 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 5:02 pm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you create a new instance of a FileReader with just the filename, then that file will be erased if it is already there. You can use the constructor of FileReader that accepts the filename and a boolean. If the boolean is true, then the file will be appended. ============================================================================== TOPIC: interesting thin-client problem http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/df226049f75e9516 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 4:58 pm From: "stefoid" hmm, I just realised that JSF components can be (usually are?) made with JSP and javascript. so maybe I could create a 'hex map' JSF component. Would kind of break my rule about @[EMAIL PROTECTED] around with JSP and so on. It would have to 1) generate a scrollable and zoomable hex map 2) display the players units/objects in the hexes they occupy 3) display some information about the hex and possible units on mouse rollover 4) display detailed information when the hex is clicked on, possibly in a popup window 5) allow a unit to be moved from its current hex to a destination hex would all that be possible with javascript? Using this kind of client side processing would mean the client would have to have a lot of data about the map and its contents. Lets say the map was 100x100 hexes, each with a name, a type, and optionally some containing a number of units of possibly differing types. Even at only 50 bytes per hex, thats half a meg of data. I cant see any way around the client having to ask the server for specific information about each hex. hmmm... == 2 of 2 == Date: Tues, Dec 14 2004 1:32 am From: Alex Kizub > I cant see any way around the client having > to ask the server for specific information about each hex. Easy. For each request open another window which retrives data from url and stores it in main window and dies. JavaScript can do this. Alex Kizub. ============================================================================== TOPIC: run question. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/91d24a63573e185f ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Tues, Dec 14 2004 2:40 am From: stevek Thank you Dag. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Your suggestion worked just fine. Dag Sunde wrote: > "stevek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Thought so. I the following not correct? >> >>CLASSPATH=C:\.;C:\Program Files\j2sdk1.4.2_01\bin;E:\.;C:\Program >>Files\sql2kjdbc\lib\msbase.jar;c:\program fi >>les\sql2kjdbc\lib\mssqlserver.jar;c:\program > > files\sql2kjdbc\lib\msutil.jar > >>Ulf Nordlund wrote: >> >>>stevek skrev: >>> >>> >>>>Think I have my path variables set up ok until I try to run an app. I >>>>need to enter java -cp . <app name>. >>>> >>>>What am I missing. >>>> >>>>TIA >>> >>> >>>Have you set the environment variable CLASSPATH to include '.' ? >>>/ulf > > > Try to set "." as suggested... > The "C:\.;" does not set ".", it is just the same as "C:\;" > Try: CLASSPATH=.;C:\.;C:\Program... > == 2 of 2 == Date: Tues, Dec 14 2004 2:49 am From: stevek Thanks Tony. I will give your e-mail some thought. I used the tools.html to get me where I was with setting the classpath. Dag's suggestion work fine. Tony Morris wrote: > "stevek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Think I have my path variables set up ok until I try to run an app. I >>need to enter java -cp . <app name>. >> >>What am I missing. > > > > You have done the typical beginner's mistake of setting the CLASSPATH > environment variable. > Unset it. > > http://www.xdweb.net/~dibblego/java/faq/answers.html#q5 > "Generally, you do not set the CLASSPATH environment variable for a standard > SDK or JRE installation. The CLASSPATH environment variable is set for other > reasons, usually the installation of third-party libraries. Some people > (including myself) argue that setting the CLASSPATH environment variable at > all is bad practice; it should be set dynamically at each build. This keeps > the build machine clean from potential "contamination" from libraries in the > CLASSPATH. Setting the CLASSPATH environment variable was required for > installation of the SDK in versions prior to 1.2. This "myth" has > unfortunately carried over to later versions of Java and confusion has > resulted. A good rule of thumb is, "If you don't know how to set the > CLASSPATH (since you are relatively new to Java), don't set the CLASSPATH at > all". More information on the CLASSPATH environment variable can be found at > http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/tooldocs/tools.html"; > ============================================================================== TOPIC: question on alternate function declaration syntax http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/262cda26dd0d5c13 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 8:25 pm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've always wondered why there is no language (to my knowledge) where a function could be declared and used like this: declaration: int[] find(int numOfRoots)RootsOf(String eqn){...} invocation: int[] solns= find(2)RootsOf("x^2"); If no spaces are allowed, this syntax seems unambiguous, and I can't think of a reason why it would cause problems (besides it being unwanted or not useful:)) Is there a reason why this isn't allowed? Would it even be useful? Thanks, Rob Callan == 2 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 9:00 pm From: Peter Davis On 2004-12-13 20:25:48 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > declaration: > int[] find(int numOfRoots)RootsOf(String eqn){...} > > invocation: > int[] solns= find(2)RootsOf("x^2"); > > If no spaces are allowed, this syntax seems unambiguous, and I can't > think of a reason why it would cause problems (besides it being > unwanted or not useful:)) Firstly, most people wouldn't like to have no spaces at all, and some language grammars are written in a way that having no spaces between tokens is simply impossible. > > Is there a reason why this isn't allowed? Would it even be useful? Functional languages do already support this style. For example, in Haskell, find :: Int -> (String -> [Int]) -> String -> [Int] find n f s = take n (f s) This is a function that takes three arguments: the number of items to find (2), another function that maps a string to a list of ints, and then the string to apply to the function. So to call: find (2) RootsOf ("x^2") is just passing three arguments to the "find" function. RootsOf would be defined however you like, and you could easily apply other functions to "find" other than RootsOf. So yes, there most certainly is a use for meta-functions like you describe, but their use is completely undefined in Java since methods are not first-class values. (The java.lang.reflect.Method class gains you something, but it's hardly a substitute for a real functional language.) Check out Haskell or OCaml if you want to learn more. HTH -- Peter Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Furthermore, I believe bacon prevents hair loss!" ============================================================================== TOPIC: Tomcat 5.0.28 and MS-SQL Databases http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/c466f8b6a6d958a7 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 9:13 pm From: "WJ" I realize this is a question better suited for comp.lang.java.databases. I posted this there and received no response. I also bought a Tomcat book but have not been able to find the answer in there either. I am connecting Tomcat 5 to an MS-SQL database. Everything works fine. But in order to get the pooling to work, I have to create a SQL user and set my app's database to that user's default database. This is fine if I only need to connect to one database. But I'd like to use that login to connect to two databases. In Weblogic, I am able to define the database in the Connection Pool string, e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1433. So I can have the same username connect to multiple databases by defining the target database in the app server's connection pool. Is there a way to do this in Tomcat 5? When I configure my Data Source, I use jdbc:microsoft:sqlserver://localhost:1433 for the Data Source URL. There does not appear to be a place to define the database name from the Servlet Container side. I use com.microsoft.jdbc.sqlserver.SQLServerDriver for the JDBC Driver Class. == 2 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 9:33 pm From: "WJ" nevermind. ============================================================================== TOPIC: Why pay for VS.NET when JAVA is Free? http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/3375ad9fa31f8e34 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 8:45 pm From: Mike Cox I've been a long time Windows developer until recently. Why should any company pay for developer tools when they could be had for free? My last Visual Studio product was Visual Studio 6.0. I then moved over to linux and GCC because web services were still in its infancy and no one was really using it. Therefore GCC, CORBA(ACE/TAO) and Linux were good enough compared to VC++ 7.0 and ATL 7.0. While Linux and GCC were good, Microsoft's IDE still rocked, and had a value. Linux developers needed to be smart because Emacs LISP is tough to wrap your head around in order to create the same functionality as MS VS. Furthermore, Emacs is uglier, and debugging is similar although less intuitive than VS. I was smart enough and a cheap enough to learn Emacs, so that VS was irrelevant unless eye candy counted. But lately, Web Services have started to mature. I was faced with a choice, go with .NET and VS.NET or move to JAVA. I looked at the costs associated with Microsoft versus JAVA / SUN and found SUN to be the low cost leader. StarOffice is cheaper than MS office. Solaris 10 will be completely free and include DTrace and other goodies. When I visited SUN's website, I saw free this and free that! But the best thing that was free IMHO was JAVA. Why should anyone pay $2500 USD for VS.NET Enterprise Edition when one can just click to SUN.com and download J2EE and get exactly the same functionality for free!? Plus on top of that you will soon get a free Solaris 10 with DTrace and a new filesystem that can hold incredible amounts of data. When Solaris 10 comes out, my Linux and Windows boxes will head to the trash can. Why am I posting this? Well, to say that Microsoft is losing its developer base because competitively, they are more expensive than SUN now. SUN is the low cost leader. If MS made VS.NET enterprise free I might consider coming back, but only if they made MS Office more competitive with Open Office and reduced prices on their Server products. If Sun Solaris 10 is free robust and virus free, why pay through the nose for Windows then? Microsoft made its fortune on being the high volume low cost provider, but now it is more expensive than SUN. How ironic! == 2 of 2 == Date: Mon, Dec 13 2004 10:41 pm From: "Sylvain Lafontaine" Simply because the costs of the software is only a part of the whole equation. You may say that Java is free, but if it take a programmer 6 months with Java instead of 3 with .NET to develop a piece of code; then the real cost to the company who pay him is much, much higher than 0$. I won't enter into the discussion to know if doing a project with Java will really double the required time or not. You can even argue that it will take less time doing it with Java instead; I don't care here. The real point is not to know which one is more productive but to know that the decision of using a product instead of another can have consequences far more distant than simply the cost of buying the product. If you think that you will do a project with Java in less time that with VS.NET, then go ahead with Java; it's the best decision that you can make and, hopefully, a good one. However, if you think that it will take you more time with Java but you make the decision of sticking with it because it's free, then you know what someone might say about such a decision. S. L. "Mike Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I've been a long time Windows developer until recently. Why should any > company pay for developer tools when they could be had for free? My last > Visual Studio product was Visual Studio 6.0. I then moved over to linux > and GCC because web services were still in its infancy and no one was > really using it. Therefore GCC, CORBA(ACE/TAO) and Linux were good enough > compared to VC++ 7.0 and ATL 7.0. > > While Linux and GCC were good, Microsoft's IDE still rocked, and had a > value. Linux developers needed to be smart because Emacs LISP is tough to > wrap your head around in order to create the same functionality as MS VS. > Furthermore, Emacs is uglier, and debugging is similar although less > intuitive than VS. I was smart enough and a cheap enough to learn > Emacs, so that VS was irrelevant unless eye candy counted. > > But lately, Web Services have started to mature. I was faced with a > choice, > go with .NET and VS.NET or move to JAVA. I looked at the costs associated > with Microsoft versus JAVA / SUN and found SUN to be the low cost leader. > StarOffice is cheaper than MS office. Solaris 10 will be completely free > and include DTrace and other goodies. When I visited SUN's website, I saw > free this and free that! > > But the best thing that was free IMHO was JAVA. Why should anyone pay > $2500 > USD for VS.NET Enterprise Edition when one can just click to SUN.com and > download J2EE and get exactly the same functionality for free!? Plus on > top of that you will soon get a free Solaris 10 with DTrace and a new > filesystem that can hold incredible amounts of data. When Solaris 10 > comes > out, my Linux and Windows boxes will head to the trash can. > > Why am I posting this? Well, to say that Microsoft is losing its > developer > base because competitively, they are more expensive than SUN now. SUN is > the low cost leader. If MS made VS.NET enterprise free I might consider > coming back, but only if they made MS Office more competitive with Open > Office and reduced prices on their Server products. If Sun Solaris 10 is > free robust and virus free, why pay through the nose for Windows then? > Microsoft made its fortune on being the high volume low cost provider, but > now it is more expensive than SUN. How ironic! ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "comp.lang.java.programmer" group. 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