Ha ha Dave! You must be an artist or something ;-)
Most art galleries exist to make a profit. No sales = no profit. Even the non-profits must be able to "move product" in order to pay the rent. It is a sad reality that for most of us artists there is no way to exist without either a "day job", or producing "art objects for the market". The well-funded foundations etc. are also often only "fronts" for the market. I.E. Rich person collects unknown avant garde artist... Unknown artist becomes famous artist because all the "big-name" collectors are collecting him/her... Collection is now worth a lot of money... can be donated to museum in exchange for big tax write-off...Rich person touted as "generous patron of the arts"... If you are fortunate enough to live someplace with government support for individual artists or for artists spaces, then you might be able to get your "real" art into those spaces. I think that one of the reasons that virtual/online communities are popular with artists is that they provide spaces for artists to be artists / to be themselves, without making compromises or pandering to the sales requirements of the marketplace. Or maybe some rich collectors will make you their "flavour of the month" so that you can get in on the racket yourself! Allan -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dave miller Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:25 PM To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Handbook for Disobedience: Multitude-/seconds:Call for contributors Hi marc Following on from what you've been saying about fine art ... I've just been talking to fine art dealers, with the idea of getting some of my pictures into galleries, and trying to sell them. Maybe I've been a bit naive about this, but it's come as a shock to me how fine art galleries focus on selling product, and creating scarcity/ value, when I've become accustomed to the open/ free/ sharing/ communal benefit attitude of media art/ net art. Media art, I'm told from a gallery perspective, is difficult to sell. It's difficult to explain to buyers how to use it, and doesn't work well as an investment. Makes me feel quite confused - I mean it's all art isn't it? dave On 13/02/07, marc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Ana, > > Wow Ana - you seem to exist in a lot of places around Europe... > > > Weird, I know the people at Mejan Labs but never heard about a > > node.Stockholm. And yes, of course, I was ranting a bit (needed for > > the rethorical tone :). But Mejan, Iaspis, everything is done at the > > academical level and when you are finished with the academy (Mejan > or > Konstfack), the scene drops to almost zero. > > Yes, they are connected to the Academy. I know that I cannot speak for > them personally, but I bet if you popped other and mentioned this > discussion on this list, and Node.London as well. That at least you > may gain some info of getting involved. > > The Node.process itself was and is about inclusion and fair > representation, not only of groups but also of individuals, and you > could offer yourself as a co-volunteer. > > I'm saying this, hoping that they are working with similar methods and > processes in mind, as we did in London, using consensual run meetings > to decide and not only the 'hegemons'... > > I have not heard for a bout week regarding the deepr contexts of what > the Stockholm lot are up to but hope that it will be as fullfilling as > it was for most of us that took part in Node.London. > > Having said this, many of us in Node.London did not agree on a lot of > things and when you've got from 20 - 30 people in one room arguing > their own perspectives on thigs it can get a bit tiresome. Although, > things id work out in the end, and we had our fair share of critics on > the subject, plus certain people who you could never please, even if > you followed every demand and whim. > > > But of course Stockholm is quite a small city with only 1.5 point > > inhabitants, i don't demand from here the same landscape than London. > > But Paris, Madrid, Barcelona? > > I was myself in Barcelona, in Fadaiat event, the last summer, and > we > had crowds of 40 people maximum. In Sevilla at Jordan Crandalls > event, > Under Fire, where I was myself one of the speakers, we > barely had 20 > people. > > And the Sevilla Biennal had very little public. > > I really think that generally, media art should be more inclusive, but > also that traditional fine art institutions and the curators, writers > and artists who part of that scene need to wake up as well, and become > more critically engaged (imaginative even) in respect of their > thinking on media art, and what it has to offer for them and how they > can at least invest creatively in it. The funny thing is that, in some > of the colleges and universities that I have been teaching in and > doing talks at - the most open minded people have not actually been > fine artists, they have been designers, engineers, video game makers, > scientists, activists and many more. Also the traditional art press > are abit behind the times in regard to what is actually going on in > the UK, they still blab on about history all of the time and find it > difficult to get their heads around such a contemporary way of working > such as net art and mediaa art. One of the obvious issues regarding > connecting to something like net art has been that they have been able > to sell it. But this is of course, a slack reason for taking such a > fluid and diverse creative culture on. > > marc > > > > Weird, I know the people at Mejan Labs but never heard about a > > node.Stockholm. And yes, of course, I was ranting a bit (needed for > > the rethorical tone :). But Mejan, Iaspis, everything is done at the > > academical level and when you are finished with the academy (Mejan > or > Konstfack), the scene drops to almost zero. > > I am myself involved in a lot of activities but it's seldom a "common" > > scene where all, practisioners, students, teachers and theorists, > can > meet. > > But of course Stockholm is quite a small city with only 1.5 point > > inhabitants, i don't demand from here the same landscape than London. > > But Paris, Madrid, Barcelona? > > I was myself in Barcelona, in Fadaiat event, the last summer, and > we > had crowds of 40 people maximum. In Sevilla at Jordan Crandalls > event, > Under Fire, where I was myself one of the speakers, we > barely had 20 > people. > > And the Sevilla Biennal had very little public. > > Ana > > > > On 2/13/07, marc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Hi Ana, > >> > >> Well, regarding Stockholm - I have recently received news about a > >> node.stockholm happening there, some of them came over to London to > >> visit during the media art season in 06, and were excited by it all... > >> > >> I'd pay a visit to Mejan Labs if I were you and ask them about it > - >> because I know that they are involved in it... > >> > >> marc > >> > >> > I followed the Node project and was very sad I could not attend > it. I >> > think London is now the only spot in Europe I feel a kind > of dynamic >> > between Net Art, theory, activism and "permanent > places". You have the >> > Tate, comissioning interesting virtual Art > and hosting interest >> > events, you have your own organization, > Furtherfield, the Node event, >> > the Rampart crew, small anarchists > bookstores, small publishing >> > houses, etc. But the rest of Europe > is quite dead, my friends in Paris >> > and Berlin and Rom and Madrid > and Barcelona are always searching >> > "nodes" in other parts of the > map. (And we in Stockholm are quite >> > silent too). > >> > Ana > >> > > >> > On 2/13/07, marc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Hi Ana, > >> >> > >> >> I agree - I am also a romantic, which one of the reasons that I > get so >> >> involved in so much stuff generally... > >> >> > >> >> >But where are today the spaces for joint action and collaboration? > >> >> Are they only virtual? > >> >> > >> >> Well - I can definately answer that one. It was only last year > that in >> >> march, London that many people, including ourselves at > furtherfield >> >> participated in a massive project which involved > over 80 artists and >> >> groups, showing at over 40 venues. A > collaboration of the season media >> >> arts. > >> >> > >> >> The project was called Node.London and was controlled by and > directed on >> >> a consensus basis, which was not easy, and as you > can imagine; there was >> >> always the loud mouth (modernist) guy > who did not know what the hell was >> >> happening and kept on > talking over everyboby else - a bit like my dad >> >> the pub saying > 'I know my pint and I'm sticking to it' sort of thing. > >> >> But luckily, everyone else managed to work through this kind of > obstacle >> >> to set up a pretty dynamic media arts season for a > whole month. > >> >> > >> >> Much more happened as well, loads of people where involved in > many >> >> differrent ways - here are some links below related to it, > if yourself >> >> or anyone else is interested... > >> >> > >> >> http://www.nodel.org/ - the site. > >> >> > >> >> There is even a book publication that was part of the monthly > season >> >> called 'Media Mutandis'. > >> >> You do not have to buy the book though you can read its > contents online, >> >> download it or print it out. > >> >> > >> >> "The NODE.London Reader projects a critical context around the > Season of >> >> Media Arts in London March 2006 and provides another > discursive >> >> dimension to the events of October 2005's Open > Season." > >> >> http://publication.nodel.org/ > >> >> > >> >> marc > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I have some thoughts which I wanted to share about the > concept >> >> > Multitude, Swarm. The mailing lists and the networks > for social >> >> > exchange and social software are exploding, but I > feel they are also >> >> > "imploding". I mean, I see the same people > participating in -empyre-, >> >> > Nettime, Rhizome, IDC, this list. > We are all active in Delicious, >> >> > Stumble upon, we digg, we > make blogs, we are verbalized and active. > >> >> > But where are today the spaces for joint action and collaboration? > >> >> > Are they only virtual? I miss a kind of modern Bauhaus. > >> >> > But I am a romantic :( > >> >> > Ana > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On 2/13/07, Allan Revich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> I have several thoughts about it. Please discuss them. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > marc >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:01 AM >> >> >> To: > NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >> >> >> Subject: > Re: [NetBehaviour] Handbook for Disobedience: Multitude- >> >> >> > /seconds:Call for contributors >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Clive & list, > >> >> >> >> >> >> "The views published in /seconds are are not > necessarily those of the >> >> >> individual writers and artists who > contribute, nor of the publishers, >> >> >> editors, editorial and > advisory board members or funders. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Of course this may be the same of any book that is > published, or any >> >> >> single >> >> >> type of specific > practice. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> So, what is your opinion regarding collaborative creativity, > and how >> >> >> this >> >> >> kind of behaviour is influencing > media art, or art culture generally? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I would also be interested in your ideas in respect of some > of the >> >> >> text that >> >> >> you responded to the 'Handbook > for Disobedience: Multitude'. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> If anyone else here have some thoughts about it I would love > to >> >> >> discuss them >> >> >> :-) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > marc >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original > Message ----- >> >> >> From: "marc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >> >> To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity" > >> >> >> <[email protected]> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, > February 13, 2007 1:17 AM >> >> >> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Handbook > for Disobedience: Multitude - >> >> >> /seconds:Call for contributors > >> >> >> >> >> >> > Call for contributors: /seconds issue 5: > Handbook for >> >> Disobedience: > >> >> >> > Multitude > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > /seconds: Call for contributors: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > an open invitation to respond to the topics of network, > art and >> >> >> multitude- >> >> >> > issue 5: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Handbook for Disobedience: Multitude >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > All media formats accepted >> >> >> > Material to be > considered should be sent to >> >> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > References, notes and background material can > be accessed at >> >> >> > www.reduxart.org.uk >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > 'Art aside, Art Basel Miami is all about seeing and being seen, >> > >> >> spending >> >> >> > time with old friends and new friends and > networking like >> >> crazy...' > >> >> >> > From 'Notes from Miami Beach, Basel Art Fair 2006', > Steven Psyllos >> >> >> > >> >> >> > 'Even as we seek to have a > sense of orientation which will allow >> >> >> us to >> >> >> > > protect ourselves, we also perceive, often in retrospect, various >> > >> >> forms >> >> >> > of danger.' > >> >> >> > Paolo Virno MULTITUDE > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > 'We can say that this destiny of marginality has now come > to an >> >> >> end. The >> >> >> > Multitude, rather than > constituting a 'natural' ante-fact, >> >> presents >> >> >> > > itself as a historical result, a mature arrival point of the >> >> >> > > transformations that have taken place within the productive >> >> > >> process and >> >> >> > the forms of life. The 'Many' are erupting > onto the scene, and >> >> they >> >> >> > stand there as absolute > protagonists while the crisis of the >> >> >> society of >> >> >> > > Work is being played out. Post-Fordist social cooperation, in >> >> > >> > eliminating the frontier between production time and personal > >> >> >> time, not >> >> >> > to mention the distinction between > professional qualities and >> >> >> political >> >> >> > aptitudes, > creates a new species, which makes the old >> >> dichotomies of >> > >> >> > 'public/private' and 'collective/individual' sound farcical. > >> >> Neither > >> >> >> > 'producers' nor 'citizens', the modern virtuosi attain at > last the >> >> >> rank >> >> >> > of Multitude.' From 'Virtuosity > and Revolution', Paolo Virno' > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > '...Hardt and Negri [on 'Multitude'] are often uncritical > and >> >> >> credulous >> >> >> > in the face of orthodox > propaganda about globalization and >> >> >> immateriality >> >> >> > > ... They assert that 'immaterial labour' - service work, basically > >> >> >> - now >> >> >> > prevails over the old-fashioned material > kind, but they don't cite >> >> >> any >> >> >> > statistics: you'd > never expect that far more Americans are >> >> >> truck-drivers >> > >> >> > than are computer professionals. Nor would you have much of > an >> >> >> inkling >> >> >> > that three billion of us, half the > earth's population, live in the >> >> >> rural >> >> >> > Third > World, where the major occupation remains tilling the soil.' > >> >> >> > [Henwood, D. (2003) After the New Economy. New York: New > Press, >> >> >> > pp.184-5] >From an essay by Steve Wright, in > Metamute.com >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Reality check: Are We Living In > An Immaterial World? M30:: > >> >> >> 14.12.05 'The > >> >> >> > protocols of representative legitimisation attempt to > render >> >> >> continuous >> >> >> > what is not, to give > disparate sequences a unique name, such as >> >> the >> >> >> > > 'great proletarian leader' or the 'great founder of artistic >> >> >> > modernity', >> >> >> > names that are actually borrowed from > fictional objectivities.' > >> >> Alain > >> >> >> Badiou > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > A question is posed in the contradictions of an > antagonism between >> >> >> > 'belonging', and 'conforming': to the > mechanics of conformity that >> >> >> > uphold the opposition > friend/enemy, to ambivalence in solutions >> >> >> > inscribed in > the attempted tactic to move through the threshold >> >> of an >> >> > >> > opposition: resistant 'refusal'[dread] to accommodating >> >> > >> > 'acceptance'[refuge]. The once 'marginal' China Art Objects >> > >> >> Galleries in >> >> >> > Chinatown, Los Angeles, predicated > 'refuge' by winning the >> >> Basel Art >> >> >> > Fair's > prestigious award [Best Booth] whilst, as Chris Kraus >> >> has also > >> >> >> > written [in eulogistic prose for the work of the late > Giovanni >> >> Intra, >> >> >> > its founder], at the same time > raising the real estate value of a >> >> >> poor >> >> >> > area > through the sign of 'regeneration' and failing subjective and >> >> > >> > objective intentions. Intra's precocious, intellectually and >> > >> >> > artistically ambitious practice would bring a 'new' nexus of > >> >> concerns >> >> >> > and strategies into play: L.A subculture, > as exemplified by its >> >> >> > appropriation of unhealthy forms of > surrealism, situationism and >> >> >> punk, >> >> >> > injected a > dose of disorder into the local art world's >> >> protocols of >> >> > >> > representative legitimisation. All good things come to an end. > Any >> >> >> real >> >> >> > exit from the art traffic in desire > [for autonomy] is better read >> >> >> in an >> >> >> > > indifference to the double-edged 'belonging' [being safe] imposed >> > >> >> by the >> >> >> > 'dread / refuge' coupling. As the > work/leisure dynamic plays >> >> out the >> >> >> > possibility of > a new generic form of angst is being hi-jacked, >> >> >> > > formalised and reconstituted as the new legitimate [global] >> >> > aesthetic >> >> >> > model. ['disobedient' art fairs, off the map > biennales, >> >> 'political' > >> >> >> > symposia, social interventions etcetera ] Or, in other > words, >> >> >> everything >> >> >> > that is 'permitted' inside > [except,in the uncanny sense, what is >> >> >> true] >> >> >> > is > only by an injunction to art's non-antagonistic contradictions; >> >> > >> what >> >> >> > is, or not, made and done, is accorded to > visibility. Art's >> >> >> pluralities, >> >> >> > aesthetic > transformations, technological bifurcations and virtual >> >> >> > > simulations might apply a radical in-difference, or an uncanny >> >> > >> > separation from within the system, infinitely reproducible in > >> >> >> singular >> >> >> > moments. As a new aesthetic possibility > it is 'at home' in >> >> >> > discontinuity, a user of the > subversive capability of networks, a >> >> >> screen >> >> >> > for > a hidden and anonymous netwar within capital. The governmental >> >> > >> and >> >> >> > aesthetic 'home' of the Multitude is two-fold, the > same: > >> >> >> 'everywhere', > >> >> >> > in specific, discontinuous, bio-political acts of revolt, > and >> >> at the >> >> >> > same time, invisible, emerging > uncannily 'elsewhere' as art, >> >> not in >> >> >> > > contradiction, negation but as separation. In the rupture of >> >> >> > obedience >> >> >> > to and disobedience from the market's > mechanisms, [from which >> >> >> unity of >> >> >> > opposition the > art world accumulates value, projected and >> >> authorised >> >> >> > > through the public/private, collective/individual sphere] is >> >> > >> Multitude >> >> >> > to be aroused from slumber in a 'call to > arms'? Is it not that the >> >> >> call >> >> >> > to arms has > 'always-already' arrived in the discomfiting of all >> >> >> > > affective pedagogy? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > In the phantom 'Handbook for Disobedience'? 'My name is > Nobody...' > >> >> >> Homer > >> >> >> > /seconds. is an online publishing project initiated and > edited by >> >> >> Derek >> >> >> > Horton and Peter Lewis, > designed by Graham Hibbert and supported >> >> >> by an >> >> >> > > international editorial and advisory board of academics, >> >> > artists and >> >> >> > curators. The project acknowledges support > from Leeds Metropolitan >> >> >> > University. A new issue of > /seconds. will be published every three >> >> >> > months and will > include text, visual material (including moving >> >> >> image) >> > >> >> > and sound-based work. General enquiries should be made to >> > >> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] executive editors Derek > >> >> Horton >> >> >> > Peter Lewis designer Graham Hibbert > editorial board Maurizio >> >> >> Bortolotti >> >> >> > Tony Chakar > Clementine Deliss Wolfgang Fetz Simon Ford Andrew Hunt >> >> >> Craig > >> >> >> > Martin David Mollin Sarah Wilson advisory board Steve > Arguelles >> >> >> Richard >> >> >> > Caldicott Mark Harris Melanie > Manchot Makiko Nagaya Michael Nyman >> >> >> Annie >> >> >> > Ratti > Dimitra Vamiali Paul Violi Mark Arial Waller Steven Wong >> >> >> > /seconds >> >> >> > is published by Derek Horton and Peter Lewis. > The views >> >> published in >> >> >> > /seconds are are not > necessarily those of the individual >> >> writers and >> >> >> > > artists who contribute, nor of the publishers, editors, >> >> > editorial and >> >> >> > advisory board members or funders. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> > NetBehaviour mailing list >> >> >> > > [email protected] >> >> >> > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> NetBehaviour mailing list > >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> NetBehaviour mailing list > >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> NetBehaviour mailing list > >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> NetBehaviour mailing list > >> >> [email protected] > >> >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NetBehaviour mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
