Hi Simon,
I find your attitude quite offensive, but I am not of religious
faith.
Maybe I have some kind of faith in something - we all need to have
some
kind of faith. Science has shown faith to have evolutionary purpose
in
our survival. There are scientists who believe in God. You come
across
as extremely intolerant of other peoples faith and beliefs - I
think you
should be intolerant rather of what has been done in *the name of
faith*
by those who abuse their power. To equate faith with deathcamps,
genocide, and racism is just bollocks, these are all things arising
from
fear, not faith.
James.
On 11/7/2009, "Simon Biggs" <s.bi...@eca.ac.uk> wrote:
>There is no reason to respect faith. Faith is the human <quality>
evoked
>when people refuse to recognise they might be wrong. Faith is a
cover for
>ignorance and an apologia for lacking respect for others. I agree
with
>Richard Dawkins on this and see no reason why faith should be
tolerated,
>much less respected.
>I have no respect for the Pope’s beliefs, although I respect him
as a human
>being, no matter what he does (and some Popes have done terrible
things in
>the name of faith). All people, even the most difficult, should
have our
>basic respect.
>However, I do not see why people’s beliefs should be
>respected, especially if that means other’s have to censor their
behaviour.
>Think of what happened to Salman Rushdie when he critiqued a
religious and
>nationalist delusion and those that peddle it. In the name of
respect he had
>a fatwah placed upon him and has had to live with that ever since.
>Historically, far worse has been done to those who risked the
wrath of the
>faithful.
>I do not see how, in a society that aspires to recognise that
knowledge can
>only be attained through the free and robust critique of what we
already
>know, we can respect faith. Faith is the very opposite of that.
Faith is
>ignorance. Faith is deathcamps, genocide, racism and exclusivist
concepts of
>identity.
>Regards
>
>Simon
>
>
>Simon Biggs
>Research Professor
>edinburgh college of art
>s.bi...@eca.ac.uk
>www.eca.ac.uk <http://www.eca.ac.uk>
>www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ <http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/>
>
>si...@littlepig.org.uk
>www.littlepig.org.uk <http://www.littlepig.org.uk>
>AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
>
>
>
>From: Dawn Hayes <realrainma...@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
><netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org>
>Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:49:55 -0400
>To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
><netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org>
>Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] [stuff-it] FW: Only 33 per cent of
Americans
>believe in evolution (fwd)
>
>I try to be respectful of faith, but it does not surprise me when
>others do not offer the same courtesy or consideration.
>
>There are plenty of non-Christians that do not believe in the theory
>of evolution. There are scientists that question evolution. Some are
>Christian and others are not. Plenty of contributors to science and
>other fields of "reason" that we all appreciate came from folks who
>believed in God as Christians. Be careful not to turn this into a
>ridicule of faith. It may require you to do less "politically
correct"
>things, like ridicule, say, Islam. God forbid (and I do capitalize
my
>spelling of God).
>
>Truth is not relative, but we live in a time where relativism
>increasingly colors our opinion of what we perceive as true. Perhaps
>that is the real problem.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dawn
>
>On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Montserrat Bru
>Manobens<zumzumgall...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don´t know what The Province means by Americans. Does it include
Canadians,
>> Mexicans and the rest of the Americas, or its just U.S.A?
>> Lets hope that the survey referred is more "scientific" than the
article.
>> Yes, its a matter of hope & faith that the results are accurate.
>> Well, lets say it refers to the U.S.A and this is what wikipedia
says about
>> the believes of their people
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States#Religion
>> According to a 2007 survey, 78.4% of adults identified
themselves as
>> Christian,[141] down from 86.4% in 1990.[142] Protestant
denominations
>> accounted for 51.3%, while Roman Catholicism, at 23.9%, was the
largest
>> individual denomination. The study categorizes white
evangelicals, 26.3% of
>> the population, as the country's largest religious cohort;[141]
another
>> study estimates evangelicals of all races at 30–35%.[143] The
total
>> reporting non-Christian religions in 2007 was 4.7%, up from 3.3%
in
>> 1990.[142] The leading non-Christian faiths were Judaism (1.7%),
Buddhism
>> (0.7%), Islam (0.6%), Hinduism (0.4%), and Unitarian Universalism
>> (0.3%).[141] From 8.2% in 1990,[142] 16.1% in 2007 described
themselves as
>> agnostic, atheist, or simply having no religion.[141]
>>
>> Since 78,4% seem to be Christian, and knowing the bible´s
approach on
>> science: Clever Adam took from the tree of science, could
discern between
>> good and evil and became too inquisitive, independent... and
mortal! Nice
>> plot created by them clever god mongers: Wanna eternal life?
Take from our
>> tree of life, but u must not question or even reason or doubt,
because u´re
>> a natural born sinner. Just believe what we say, make regular
contributions
>> to the church, preferably in cash and if u´re afraid of dying,
rest assured
>> u´ll go to heaven.
>>
>> That´s hard core successful marketing and yes, people dig on
heaven and are
>> afraid of dying and they´re afraid of thinking and living too!!!
>>
>> But anyways, if 33% of U.S.A population believes in evolution,
the results
>> are not so gloomy, seeing that in 2007, only 16.1% described
themselves as
>> ungodly.
>> It shows that some of those 78,4% have a further, lesser gullible
>> perspective on the subject. That´s not much, but it´s something
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Montse
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Alan Sondheim
<sondh...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> god (?) help us all.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:53:28 -0400
>>> From: Michael Gurstein <gurst...@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: stuff...@vancouvercommunity.net
>>> To: stuff...@vancouvercommunity.net, ottawadissent...@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [stuff-it] FW: Only 33 per cent of Americans believe
in evolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sid Shniad [mailto:shn...@sfu.ca]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 2:01 PM
>>> Subject: Only 33 per cent of Americans believe in evolution
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.theprovince.com/technology/Science+beliefs+faltering/1776905/stor
>>> y.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Province July 10, 2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Science beliefs faltering
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Only 33 per cent of Americans believe in evolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Americans still value the nation's scientific achievements, but
unlike
>>> most
>>> scientists, they often pick and choose which scientific
findings they
>>> agree
>>> with, especially in the areas of climate change and evolution,
according
>>> to
>>> a survey released yesterday.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The survey found nine in 10 scientists accept the idea of
evolution by
>>> natural selection, but just a third of the public does. And
while 84 per
>>> cent of scientists say the Earth is getting warmer because of
human
>>> activity, less than half of the public agrees with that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "The public and the scientists have very different views on
many different
>>> issues, including the science of evolution and climate change,"
said Scott
>>> Keeter of the Pew Research Center. The centre conducted the
wide-ranging
>>> telephone survey in collaboration with the American Association
for the
>>> Advancement of Science.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The research included responses from 2,533 scientists in the
AAAS, and
>>> 2,001
>>> public respondents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It found most Americans value the nation's scientific
achievements, but
>>> not
>>> as much as they did a decade ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Although 27 per cent of Americans said scientific advances are
the
>>> nation's
>>> greatest achievement, that was down from 47 per cent in the
group's May
>>> 1999
>>> survey.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The administration of Barack Obama has promised that science
will lead
>>> health-care and climate-change policy, and has pledged to seek
a cure for
>>> cancer, now the No. 2 killer of Americans.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to the survey, most scientists and the public agree
it is
>>> appropriate for scientists to take part in political debate
over issues
>>> such
>>> as stem-cell research.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And even Americans who disagree with scientific conclusions
think highly
>>> of
>>> scientists. More than two-thirds of those who say science
conflicts with
>>> their religious beliefs still say scientists contribute
significantly to
>>> society.
>>>
>>> !DSPAM:2676,4a5784bf25632001016420!
>>>
>>> ------=_Part_39296_44589596.1247248851811
>>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>
>>> <html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0;
>>> }</style></head><body><div
>>> style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt; color:
#000000'><div><font
>>> size="2" face="Arial"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style=""><a
>>>
>>> href="http://www.theprovince.com/technology/Science+beliefs+faltering/177690
>>> 5/story.html"
>>>
>>> target="_blank">http://www.theprovince.com/technology/Science+beliefs+falter
>>> ing/1776905/story.html</a></span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">The Province<span
>>>
>>> style=""> &
>>> nbsp;
>>> </span><span
>>>
>>> style=""> &
>>>
>>> nbsp;
>>>
>>> ; &nb
>>>
>>> sp; &
>>> nbsp;</span><span
>>>
>>> style=""> &
>>>
>>> nbsp;
>>>
>>> ; &nb
>>> sp;
>>>
>>> </sp
>>> an>July
>>> 10, 2009</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><b style=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Science
>>> beliefs faltering</span></b></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
style="font-size:
>>> 12pt;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><b style=""><span style="font-size: 18pt;">Only 33 per
cent of
>>> Americans
>>> believe in evolution</span></b></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">Americans still
>>> value the nation's scientific achievements, but unlike most
scientists,
>>> they
>>>
>>> often pick and choose which scientific findings they agree with,
>>> especially
>>> in
>>> the areas of climate change and evolution, according to a
survey released
>>> yesterday.</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">The survey found
>>> nine in 10 scientists accept the idea of evolution by natural
selection,
>>> but
>>>
>>> just a third of the public does. And while 84 per cent of
scientists say
>>> the
>>>
>>> Earth is getting warmer because of human activity, less than
half of the
>>> public
>>> agrees with that.</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">"The public and the
>>> scientists have very different views on many different issues,
including
>>> the
>>>
>>> science of evolution and climate change," said Scott Keeter of
the
>>> Pew
>>> Research Center. The centre conducted the
>>> wide-ranging telephone survey in collaboration with the American
>>> Association
>>> for
>>> the Advancement of Science.</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">The research
>>> included responses from 2,533 scientists in the AAAS, and 2,001
public
>>> respondents.</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">It found most
>>> Americans value the nation's scientific achievements, but not
as much as
>>> they
>>> did a decade ago.</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">Although 27 per
>>> cent of Americans said scientific advances are the nation's
greatest
>>> achievement, that was down from 47 per cent in the group's May
1999
>>> survey.</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">The administration
>>> of Barack Obama has promised that science will lead health-care
and
>>> climate-change policy, and has pledged to seek a cure for
cancer, now the
>>> No. 2
>>> killer of Americans.</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">According to the
>>> survey, most scientists and the public agree it is appropriate
for
>>> scientists to
>>> take part in political debate over issues such as stem-cell
>>> research.</span></p>
>>> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
>>> style=""> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
>>> 0pt;"><span style="">And even Americans
>>> who disagree with scientific conclusions think highly of
scientists. More
>>> than
>>> two-thirds of those who say science conflicts with their
religious beliefs
>>> still
>>> say scientists contribute significantly to
>>> society.</span></p></font></div></div>
>>> !DSPAM:2676,4a5784bf25632001016420!
>>>
>>> </body></html>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------=_Part_39296_44589596.1247248851811--
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> CounterTheory of Color project
>> http://surveys.polldaddy.com/s/0585AD78EB0ABF57/
>>
>> Zumzum Gallery. Emerging Arts. India
>> Digital Power Poetry project
>> House 156. Anjuna Zoor Waddo
>> Anjuna 403509 Goa. India
>> India cell: +91 9850781599
>>
>> Zumzum Gallery.Emerging Arts. Barcelona
>> post address: Gràcia Fiscal, s.l. Camprodon 1 08012 Barcelona
Spain
>> Spain Cell: + 34 629486684
>>
>> Zumzum Gallery. Emerging Arts. Holland
>> post address: Anthonie Camerling 16 3322EA Dordrecht The
Netherlands
>> Holland Cell: + 31(0) 613539662
>>
>> Skype: zumzumgallery
>>
>> http://www.zumzumgallery.com/
>> http://www.digitalpowerpoetrycom/
>> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=29089193
<http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=29089193
>
>> http://montserratbru.blogspotcom/
>>
>> zumzumgall...@gmail.com
>> digitalpowerpoe...@gmail.com
>> m...@zumzumgallery.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>
>
>
>--
>"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that
>whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting
>life." -John 3:16
>
>"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, but we are
>spiritual beings having a human experience."--Pierre Teilhard de
>Chardin
>
>_______________________________________________
>NetBehaviour mailing list
>NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>
>Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in
Scotland, number SC009201
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
NetBehaviour mailing list
NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
