Hi Manik, Rob, dapx and xdxd.vs.xdxd. I enjoyed reading your posts and the weblinks you provided. This is my response/opinion.
I had no message, I only wanted to let the people in here to know what had been happening in Italy beyond our shameless PM. The Five-Star Movement comes from online grassroots meetups well before Facebook or Twitter and Grillo played a 'megaphone' role like, perhaps, Michael Moore did/does in US. One is a comedian, the other a filmmaker; both of them have no intention, as far as we know, to have a political career, but both have the right (like all of us) to express their political opinions (and sell few extra DVDs in the process, it's their job after all). Yes they built their own 'strategic' speakers' corner, it's up to us if we want to listen them or not, and it is our right to criticising them too. Be sure if they talk rubbish, they will disappear from our eyes in a nanosecond. With the spread of social media these movements may not need or want these kind of "leaders" or "figureheads" anymore, and that's fine. What I wanted to say in here is that a loose group of Italian online meetups, inspired by BG's ideas, started more or less three years ago organising themselves as a political movement with the intention to enter the political institutions and change things around. They have a programme and 5 main objectives/topics: environment, development, public water, connectivity and transport. Now we may argue about their strategies or motives or transparency or how corrupt or not they will become in future, but that's what has been happening in Italy in the last 6-7 years and how this movement has evolved. Their "memes" may replicate, mutate and evolve in other countries or just die out; we just don't know. What we know is that Italy, historically, has been an incubator of world changing "memes". Yes the Western modern banking originated in medieval and early Renaissance Italy (it is our fault, we did it). The Bardi and Peruzzi families dominated banking in 14th century Florence, establishing branches in many other parts of Europe (Hoggson, N. F. (1926) Banking Through the Ages, New York, Dodd, Mead & Company). The recent North Africa / Middle East movements can't effect change through democratic means as yet, they had to take the streets, die and kill for the cause. That's a huge difference. Our Italian forefathers did it in 1943 (unbelievable without laptops and broadband) and took two long bloody years and the help of the Allied to kick the fascists out of power. In 2011 Egyptians did it in two weeks, Lybia may take a bit longer. What has changed is the speed of the 'revolution' and the communication 'tools', but not the motives: freedom, justice, peace, hope for a better life, etc. Today in Italy we have a Constitution and a Democratic Republic constantly under threat from a Media Tycoon, corrupt fascist cronies, laughable soldout left parties and organised crime (and yes the banks and corporations too, a legal form of organised crime). The Five-Star Movement is trying to put a stop to this (and there are not the only ones) and they were initially inspired by 'populist' Grillo's ideas. So what's wrong with that? It is their intentions that count; and their intentions are damn right! Graziano Milano On 8 March 2011 16:43, Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 08/03/11 12:08, Rob Myers wrote: > > On 08/03/11 11:11, xDxD.vs.xDxD wrote: > > > >> from my point of view: we don't need these heroes. They're not a > solution. > > > > > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/on-leaderlessness-and-the-digital-generation-in-the-middle-east/2011/02/19 > > Also via the p2p foundation: > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk//commentisfree/2011/feb/07/paul-mason-protest-twitter-revolution-egypt?mobile-redirect=false > > "* From Paris to Cairo, these protests are expanding the power of the > individual > > At the heart of the movement is a new sociological type ? the graduate > with no future. They have access to social media that allow them to > express themselves in defiance of corporately owned media and censorship. > [...] > Probably the key factor is "horizontalism" which has become the default > method of organising. Technology makes non-hierarchical organising easy > [...] > And then there are "memes"..." > > Economic determinists, start your engines. ;-) > > - - Rob. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNdlyUAAoJEOqcdhxmxssC72gH/3v1sE7h/53A3bZEcyXmDVG6 > g4R0AKXe9cxPccR7Kek+qQXUueKEjMTEhJs1nzPDwsAUtkeYYRIRFmI3McMfJeFw > t6yi0VHVt1Cn1w59EpyxulznOb7T5HmJbdMIGmxxGtp1CYQctdA1qowUat4z8pxo > cpohkXiSadop1pq6/5zL9araGFdfRBAoZCeknr5QpEoiqxxsCixVp7KT3gYNzWTR > hPvEZM3dzojxF6dhtI8zpYGzk7OlO+EAfAvzrNpb8b48Tg5QeNqFfpQDDrUK43V+ > UdESxBukq94My6youpBkjEQT12CTELuoKAAJUpjktzvYxKzzzvUkU47/I2vW9Xc= > =ANKr > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >
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