> Hello All, Hiya James and all,
Many thanks James, for your thoughts/insights and mainly questions. I feel somehow reluctant to say "thanks" in case one day some linked notion might connect with numerical economic advantage for me... The lines are not very clear - as "lines" tend to be when examined closely.. For me there is a question, when numerical exchange comes into its play, of whether or not its worth the while of submitting to it - or not eating for a few days.. If eating seems necessary, then the next element in the sequence is how much.. In short, if numerical exchange is about power - then its value has to do with existence and survival - rather than thriving and evolving significances. (However, that might be a slightly stark approach requiring some mending..) It seems interesting how open exchange, one that is free of numericalism, can stop all of a sudden when a hint of non-shared numerical exchangeable gain surfaces, isn't it? I wonder though if this operates the other way around as well. Say an arch capitalist, would s/he/it stop doing stuff because someone might use their idea to make it available for all, free of numerical value exchange? hummm.. if this is where rights "protection" laws come in - then perhaps the fact that serious questions regarding the use and exploitation of labour, is a strong hinting example of where the rhythms legislators' hearts pound from? Sorry.. A bit of a digression.. Hopefully without aggression. Very encouraging to hear that you guys take these questions and evolve them on practical sequences.. Will be fab to hear more about it.. ************************************** Also.. NewS FlasH! Over on the new media curation list, there were some more details re "thespace": >>>>> Dear CRUMBs I wonder who might be attending this event next week and can report back to the list. It looks like the much anticipated collaboration between the BBC and Arts Council England, The Space, is almost upon us - http://thespace.org/ "a place where anyone can engage with the worlds best digital art as it is created." Does anyone know any more about how it will work and what is planned? *** Hack The Space >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers and ciaos! aharon xx > WARNING: rambling stream of consciousness may contain nutritious nuggets. > There's been a lot of loose talk about "digital ownership" recently. I just want it on the record: > There's only one category of digital data that can be owned: unencrypted data or source code that can be compiled to run on a variety of > platforms. Even this must not be dependent on processing via > applications programs or remote processing controlled by a third party. These must be sufficiently well-documented that the "owner" can > understand and intervene. By their nature, digital patterns that are subject to ownership are able to be conveniently copied, modified, transmitted and combined. > Any other form of claimed digital ownership - examples: "this is YOUR copy of Windows", "this is YOUR Twitter profile", "this is YOUR iPhone", or even, one fears, "This is YOUR bank balance" are not genuine > ownership - they're a form of conditional lease - and you have to be aware that a third party can deny you or others, access to or use of what you thought was your digital property. > So does it follow that "digital art" which is NOT free (as in "at liberty") in this manner is NOT "digital" in any meaningful sense? Sure, it happens to be manifested in the datasphere - but that doesn't make it digital in a way that interests me. > This brings me on to wonder whether this sense of "digital" and the conventional sense of "art" are inherently non-compatible. Something can't be truly digital if it isn't free (as in: "at liberty"), and it can't be conventional art unless it isn't free (as in "for money"). It seems to me that many "free digital practices" start to fall into the same sphere as graffiti (now subject to redefinition as "street art"). Can we say that, essentially, what's going on is this? > 1. Graffiti is cool and free. (As in: "gratis" and "uncurated".) 2. Digital art is cool and free. (as in: "open" and "distributed".) 3. The conventional art world wants to be cool and digital.... and non-free. (As in "curated", "controlled", "profitable".) > And another (related) thing: > aharon - "come do some work here while we get cred and you, err, maybe a thanks!"? > Absolutely! This sort of proposition is becoming more and more > prevalent. This is why at Access Space we're increasingly interested in how we can support artists, hackers and makers to earn real cash money from their activities. > As a space our budgets are stretched to the point of non-existence - we simply can't afford to commission artists, hackers and makers - but we can point them in the direction of monetising some aspect of their practice. And unlike many other spaces, ALL of our core team have run, are running their own enterprises (both cooperatives and conventional businesses) "on the side". > I'm starting to see "enterprise incubator" as the only genuinely empowering deal to accompany calls to participate in hack days or other spaces. Note, incidentally, that I don't advocate for profit activity as the sole axis of artists' creativity. I believe that artists only need monetise "some aspect" of their practice in order to make it > sustainable. I'm still gung-ho for the open, sharing gift economy of the arts - just not at the expense of artists, hackers and makers living in penury. > All the best, > James > ===== > On 03/06/14 00:39, mez breeze wrote: >> "You never know how much to ask for. Discussions about money are taboo because we pretend that passion and creativity alone should pay the bills. Some of the best events have "no budget", and sometimes only the worst events can make a career as an artist look painfully >> sustainable..." - http://www.whopaysartists.com/ >> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 4:35 AM, dave miller <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> "to create new work and to share >> free to >> audiences anywhere in the world." >> Maybe the most original idea would be digital art that isn't free. On 2 June 2014 19:01, ahanon <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Hiyas, >> Suddenly came across the Invite bellow.. Its at the Tate Modern's turbine >> hall.. Anyone here involved? Is this something to do with a tilt by Tate >> towards some digital linked art? >> Also, perhaps more interestingly, I bumped recently into a few outfits >> that seem to offer spaces for innovative stuff - does it sound a bit like >> a rephrase of "come do some work here while we get cred and you, err, >> maybe a thanks!"? - >> or is it a case of a bit over sensitive reading? >> Cheers! >> aharon >> xx >> ------------ >> > It is now just under two weeks until the launch of The Space! We would love for you to join us for our launch reception. >> If you have >> not already >> sent an RSVP, please let us know if you are able to attend. >> > 6.00 pm Friday 13 June >> > Turbine Hall at Tate Modern, London >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > I hope to see you there! >> > Ruth Mackenzie >> > GET YOUR PLACE >> > ABOUT >> > The Space is a new online agency to commission artists from >> the worlds >> of creative >> and digital industries, arts, and culture to create new work and to share >> free to >> audiences anywhere in the world. >> > The Space is set up by a pioneering partnership between the >> BBC and Arts >> Council >> England. And it is working with festivals, galleries, arts centres and others >> round the UK and internationally. >> > The Space will launch with an Open Call to invite new voices >> to pitch >> their ideas. >> The most original ideas will be commissioned by The Space. >> > The Space will be officially launched on the 13 June 2014 >> with the most >> ambitious >> Art Hack ever staged in the celebrated space of the Turbine Hall at Tate >> Modern. >> > Taking place over 24 hours, the brief for attendees is simple: >> > HACKATHON BRIEF >> > Take any data and turn it into a work of art >> > GET YOUR PLACE >> > IN PARTNERSHIP WITH >> > WWW.THESPACE.ORG <http://WWW.THESPACE.ORG> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> -- >> | facebook.com/MezBreezeDesign <http://www.facebook.com/MezBreezeDesign> >> | twitter.com/MezBreezeDesign <http://twitter.com/MezBreezeDesign> | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mez_Breeze >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mez_Breeze> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
