Thanks for your reply Randall. I am indeed aware of your background as a composer and interesting work with networked sound, hence me flagging this in my original post. I also understand that events like the symposium need a framework for discussions, and for my part, I think it is great that it is happening, and I’m looking forward to sitting in on some of the sessions if I can !
For me, it was refreshing to read Patrick’s article on the role of embodiment in virtual performance, which brought up issues that have been challenging me for a while, namely, what I view as a resurgent dualism in the writing and thinking of practitioners of telematics, AI, machine learning and live coding. An example that comes to mind is what I have heard and read recently about the independent agency given to the algorithm, which then gets misconstrued as somehow being independent from its human creator. I don’t understand why we are often compelled to ascribe objective properties to the world we construct and I think our view of geography and space can sometimes suffer from this. In this way, I was interested in your application of Soja’s 'spatial turn' in your first, second and third spaces of aesthetics but I can’t help being drawn back to the notion that the first space is the purest and most creative space by virtue of its holistic connection to physical experience, which to my mind then structures all of our imaginative experiences, cognition (including space) and abstract concepts. IMHO interaction and spatiality in networked performance as just the extension of physical spaces through experience, enabled by the interface but I guess this is where we get into epistemologies that underpin how we think we know what we know. In interdisciplinary areas such as networked performance, I just worry about the inclination for computer sciences to instil creative practices with hard science objectivist approaches. Perhaps it also stems from it being easier for us to visualise an object than to hear it, and calling on R.Murray Schafer here, we have to work hard to move away from a mindset that historically privileges vision over hearing. As your work traverses both of these spheres you have some interesting perspectives on them and the inherent interdisciplinarity of networked performance brings all of these things to the fore, so it is great to have these debates ! All grist for the mill ! Best wishes Roger — Roger Mills Musician, Academic and Media Sound Artist http://www.eartrumpet.org http://roger.netpraxis.net http://telesound.net "Knowledge is only rumour until it is in the muscle" - Asaro Mudmen, Papua New Guinea. > On 26 Feb 2015, at 4:04 am, Randall Packer <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Roger, > > Thanks for your mention of the Art of the Networked Practice symposium. > The irony is that I am trained as a composer and have done considerable > work and writing over the years regarding networked sound practices. > However, there was so much to cover in the symposium and I wanted to keep > the focus on research, teaching, and collaboration, but in fact I am quite > interested in this subject and hopefully next time! > > That said, I just wanted to mention that Helen Varley Jamieson is > developing a live performance, which will be performed live via Adobe > Connect as part of the symposium¹s opening. The work is entitled "we r > now[here]," a cyberformance about "nowhere and somewhere," which I believe > will address many relevant ideas concerning dislocation, disembodiment, > and other aspects of virtuality in live networked space (or as I call it, > the third space). > > Best, Randall > > Art of the Networked Practice | Online Symposium > March 31 - April 2, 2015 > http://oss.adm.ntu.edu.sg/symposium2015/ > > > > > On 2/24/15, 9:17 PM, "Alan Sondheim" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Check out Auditory Neuroscience, Making Sense of Sound, Schnupp, Nelken, >> and King, and Sonic Warfare, Sound, Affect, and The Ecology of Fear, both >> MIT, if you haven't already - >> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015, Roger Mills wrote: >> >>> Hi Patrick, thanks for sharing your ISEA paper and revisiting this >>> topic of >>> embodiment in virtual performance. I remember reading it at the time in >>> 2011, and had hoped I might bump into you there to discuss but we never >>> crossed paths. >>> >>> I completely concur with your synthesis of neurological research into an >>> understanding of virtual perception / cognition, particularly >>> Ramachandran?s >>> proposition that ?neurons fire in sympathy with the observation of >>> another >>> person?s action.? >>> >>> I would argue that this also extends to sound, which is an integral, if >>> not >>> greater part of that same mirror through which we perceive and interpret >>> meaning. On this view, sonic characteristics such as timbre, rhythm, >>> melody, >>> articulation in speech, music and other sound metaphorically enable the >>> meaning making process because we know what it is to make those sounds >>> with >>> our voice or bodies. It is this idea of experiential metaphor that is >>> also >>> elaborated in the work by Mark Johnson and George Lakoff on image >>> schematic >>> experience, which I have previously proposed is useful to understanding >>> perception in networked or virtual environments. It is interesting to >>> note >>> that Jonson and Lakoff also reference motor / mirror neuron research to >>> elaborate their embodied cognition thesis. >>> >>> With this in mind, I have often wondered why sound seems to play such a >>> minor role in these deliberations, particularly in staple literature >>> such as >>> Massumi, Ascott et al (please point out if you or anyone feels i have >>> missed >>> something here). This follows what I also find to be a somewhat >>> anachronistic, yet still pervasive notion of virtual space being >>> perceived >>> objectively as a separate, somehow fluffy academic cosy space >>> (cyberspace) >>> between dislocated bodies. >>> >>> In my mind cyberspace, or networked space as I prefer to think of it, >>> is an >>> extension of physical spaces and the embodiment of those spaces by the >>> social actions that occur in them. This emerged quite strongly in my >>> own >>> case study research of networked music performance (NMP), but perhaps it >>> also has something to do with a music or sound focussed medium as >>> opposed to >>> the predominantly visual medium of virtual environments such as SL. >>> >>> Some of these questions might be discussed in the upcoming Art of >>> Networked >>> Practice symposium, although I was hoping, (Randall aside) that there >>> might >>> have been a panelist who could speak from a specific NMP practice and >>> research perspective. There are many such as Pauline Oliveros, Mara >>> Helmuth, >>> Ken Fields for example that I think could contribute poignant ideas that >>> relate to many of these issues but IMHO are often overlooked by >>> audiovisual >>> focussed telematics perspectives. >>> >>> In any event I enjoyed revisiting your paper and its contribution >>> toward the >>> much needed 'epistemic arc' as you describe it ! >>> >>> Best wishes >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> ? >>> Roger Mills >>> >>> http://www.eartrumpet.org >>> http://roger.netpraxis.net >>> http://telesound.net >>> >>> "Knowledge is only rumour until it is in the muscle" - Asaro Mudmen, >>> Papua New Guinea. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> == >> email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 >> music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ >> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/tb.txt >> ==_______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >
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