Having tight boundaries may also be non-trivial without making further 
assumptions about the actual system that uses YANG (data) models.

Personally, I'd be fine with a wording that simply acknowledges that there are 
grey areas.

Michael


> -----Original Message-----
> From: EXT Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-
> university.de]
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 5:31 PM
> To: Alexander Clemm (alex)
> Cc: Carl Moberg (camoberg); Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE);
> [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model classification?
> 
> This is too abstract for me. There are definitions in
> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-model-classification-01.txt - it helps us if
> you can tell us which ones are not precise enough or which ones are
> missing or which ones you think do not serve a useful purpose.
> 
> All I wanted to say is that boundaries will not be tight and I this is
> good as long as we have terms that should ease human communication.
> 
> /js
> 
> On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 06:45:01PM +0000, Alexander Clemm (alex) wrote:
> > Hi Juergen, the question is still _how_ it simplifies human
> communication.  To use different terms, it should be clear what
> different purposes they convey, and why their distinction is relevant
> and matters.  IMHO this needs to be articulated more clearly. If it is
> not clear why the distinction matters, it does not simplify
> communication.
> > --- Alex
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-
> university.de]
> > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 12:08 AM
> > To: Alexander Clemm (alex) <[email protected]>
> > Cc: Carl Moberg (camoberg) <[email protected]>; Scharf, Michael
> (Nokia - DE) <[email protected]>; [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model classification?
> >
> > Yes, the boundaries are blurry and it does not matter which layering
> model you use. M.3010 does not change the fact that boundaries are
> blurry.
> >
> > I think it is not a problem. My understanding was that the I-D
> primarily aims at establish a common vocabulary and it should IMHO
> explicitely state that boundaries are blurry and that the main purpose
> is to simplify 'human communication'. The classification is not for
> 'implementation'.
> >
> > /js
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 04:43:51PM +0000, Alexander Clemm (alex)
> wrote:
> > > I am wondering what purpose the classification really serves.  At
> the end of the day, it seems to me that we are trying to express a
> model hierarchy, and articulate what the layers in the hierarchy are.
> A device model is thus at a lower layer than a service model.  An
> implementation of the service model may in turn have dependencies on
> the device model, but not the other way round.
> > >
> > > Where the models are instantiated - on a controller, on a "device",
> etc - seems to be secondary and incidental.  The boundaries are blurry,
> anyways.  A controller is a device too; some devices may contain
> virtualized controllers, and so on.
> > >
> > > One model that is relevant in this discussion seems to be the TMN
> model, as defined in ITU-T Recommendation M.3010.  This model defines a
> set of management layers - network element (device), network, service,
> business - with well defined funcional scope of each layer.  The layers
> / function hierarchy also imply an information  and data model
> hierarchy.
> > >
> > > Would it make sense to see if the layering in M.3010 could help
> guide YANG model classification, and reference those definitions?
> > >
> > > --- Alex
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: netmod [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Carl
> Moberg
> > > (camoberg)
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 1:57 AM
> > > To: Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE) <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model classification?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carl Moberg
> > > Technology Director, CVG
> > > [email protected]
> > >
> > > > On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:55 AM, Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE)
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I come at this from the classification angle, so my interest is
> if
> > > >> the assumption that a YANG model can only be classified as a
> > > >> network service model XOR a network device model according to
> the
> > > >> definitions in draft-ietf-netmod-yang-model-classification
> > > >> (sections 2.1 and 2.2). Based on this discussion I take it that
> some models are intended to be able to serve in both roles. And we
> should make sure that it’s supported in our catalog structure.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the XOR assumption for classification:
> > > >
> > > > You may also want to think about YANG models that are NEITHER
> device NOR service models. For instance, what about RFC 6991? And I
> think other, more technical models presented this week may fall into a
> similar category ("generic"?).
> > >
> > >  Very good point, thanks! That will need some additional thinking
> and writing.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > netmod mailing list
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> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
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> >
> > --
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen |
> Germany
> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> 
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
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