Dear Frédéric, thank you for your response.
Am 18.12.23 um 10:59 schrieb Frédéric Neyrat:
> Hi Andreas,
>
> Yes, shame can be a very good way to produce a form of consciousness,
> of acknowledgement of a terrible event, like the one that happened on
> the 7th of October, you're right. Shame, and/or guilt, compassion,
> disgust, many possibilities.
You are right; I deliberately suggested only one of these. It is easy to
make a list of possible topics. It is very difficult to talk about one
topic. Let's try and talk about one thing properly.
However, it's strange that you quote, from transplanet.org , only
the one thing that _seems_ to support your claim (why not
https://www.trans-planet.org/abolishing-the-world-order-in-a-radical-ceasefire or the poem of Lewis Freedman that we published https://www.trans-planet.org/inaugural-harm or the originary call there: https://www.trans-planet.org/a-call-to-rise-for-peace)
I want to defend that I quote only the first words from the start page;
the people responsible for the website should put there, on their first
"banner", what they really mean, and not require me to click elsewhere
to find differentiation and disclaimers.
Let me also add that you put in your translation a term that is _not_ in
the French text, the term "murder," "/meurtre/" in French - maybe you
wanted to say "violence"? (but that's the same term in French).
You are right - my rendering of (fr.) "mort" as (en.) "murder" is wrong;
excuse my bad French (the sentence I refer to is "Leur pacification
s’appelle la mort."); my main critique here, though, was of the
rhetoric, built around the equalising (fr.) "est" (en. "is"), which
constructs a logical chain that I find hard to follow.
And yes, I'm also worried, desperate, crying, in pain, and angry...
Best regards,
-a
So yes, as you said, difficult to "contribute to a conversation" like
this one. But we need to! I need to assume that you were _not_
dishonest but, like me, worried, desperate, crying, in pain, and angry
and then desperate etc. I need, we need to think of a way to interrupt
the circle of death!
My best,
Frédéric
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On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 9:50 AM Andreas Broeckmann via nettime-l
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Am 18.12.23 um 01:23 schrieb podinski via nettime-l:
>
> the silences ( here in Berlin and DE especially ) are really
> disturbing ! and shameful !
pod, i understand the irritation and the agitation, though it is
perhaps
not so difficult to comprehend the general situation in berlin if you
take the history of the past 75 (+3+12+15+4+43+x) years into
consideration.* which perhaps doesn't make the current situation less
disturbing, but the dilemma more understandable that many find
themselves in.
as regards the discussion here on the list, it's hard for me personally
to contribute to conversations that go like this one. where the meek
fear of antisemitism is equalised with a call to murder, and where
differentiation of place and event is extrapolated into global
analysis.
- see two examples below. (one comes from trans-planet.org
<http://trans-planet.org> that Frédéric
pointed us to: i respect the thinking that leads to these opinions, but
where to start a conversation that is headlined by "the interdiction of
the event with Judith Butler ... is an interdiction of peace ... and is
the promotion of war ... and murder"?)
i have an inkling that a careful conversation about shame and why
people
feel it (and why other people don't), might be an interesting starting
point. [who feels shame for the events of 7 October?] - maybe these are
conversations that one can not easily have in a large, public space.
greetings,
-a
PS: as regards the case of the Oyoun cultural centre in berlin, i
recommend to also read up on the history of the "Werkstatt der
Kulturen", and to recap the political changes in berlin since the 2016
and the february 2023 elections. for some of the political
decision-makers, the current situation might only be a pretext (in
which
case the political campaign to save Oyoun's funding might have to be
recalibrated).
* The German Minister of Economics, Robert Habeck of the Green Party,
explained in November, some weeks after the pogrom of 7 October, the
basics of an attitude which is complicated, not easy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZvkkpJaVI
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZvkkpJaVI>
Am 18.12.23 um 08:11 schrieb Frédéric Neyrat via nettime-l:
>
> Indeed, which civility should "speak"? Maybe the one of a planetary
> ceasefire, rethinking non-violence at its roots (MLK, Gandhi, J.
Butler's
> latest book, "The Force of non-violence," see also the 7th chapter of
> Robinson's Black Marxism). We're working on this with some friends:
> https://www.trans-planet.org/ <https://www.trans-planet.org/>
(texts in French and English:
"L’interdiction de la rencontre publique « Contre l’antisémitisme, son
instrumentalisation et pour la paix révolutionnaire en Palestine », où
Judith Butler devait parler au nom de Jewish Voice for Peace, est
l’expression d’un vœu profond : interdire la paix.
Interdire la paix est promouvoir la guerre.
Promouvoir la guerre est appeler à la violence :
la violence pour maintenir un ordre injuste, pour mener des guerres à
l’extérieur et pour assurer l’ordre intérieur par la brutalité
policière.
Leur pacification s’appelle la mort."
> Re: the silence on the rising fascism
> by Brian Holmes via nettime-l
>
> Similar to Germany, the center left and right have come together
in the US
> to seal off any public discussion about the war, despite polls
showing that
> a majority is against sending arms to massacre Palestinians.
Meanwhile the
> big discussion in the press is literally about dictatorship, how much
> dictatorship would be possible under a second Trump presidency.
It's eerie,
> because at the same time you have Milei assuming power in
Argentina and
> devaluing the peso by 51% on the first day, with his security
minister
> saying that previously existing restraints will be abandoned,
police on the
> street will carry live rounds and protests will be confined to the
> sidewalk. That's a recipe for a social explosion on a very short
timeline.
> In short this is the heaviest atmosphere I ever lived through in the
> Americas.
>
> It seems that climate change, the Russo-Chinese challenge to US
hegemony,
> and at the same time, boundary-busting technological innovations and
> twisted perspectives of yet another capitalist growth binge have
all opened
> up a nihilistic sense of the need for states and elites to make a
move. The
> geopolitical crisis and paradigm shift that Armin Medosch and I
were so
> keen to analyze a decade ago is happening now. It's already on a
huge scale
> and it could get bigger. At the same time I think civil society
has only
> begun to speak, and there is an incredible amount to be said. The
Empire
> itself is naked barbarism. What are we gonna do?
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