So very high. And every day higher until it sinks into total and utter disgrace.
> On Jul 13, 2025, at 11:39 AM, Keith Sanborn <mrz...@panix.com> wrote: > > I march with Jewish Voice for Peace in NYC. The power of the zionist lobby > is very strong here. AIPAC gives hundreds of thousands of dollars to US > Senator Kristen Gillibrand who denounced fellow “Democrat” Mamdani as a > terrorist. “Democrat” Andrew Cuomo took money from zionist lobbies and made > an executive order while governor of New York that anyone supporting BDS cd > not do business with the State of New York. It has not been enforced, > however, as far as I know. But there is a chilling effect. > > Gillibrand’s strategic implicit or explicit support of Cuomo for mayor of > NYC—by denouncing Mamdani—is extremely ironic since she called for him to > step down as governor because of the multiple sexual harassment allegations > against him. > > Apparently zionism trumps MeToo. Sad. > >> On Jul 13, 2025, at 11:13 AM, Brian Holmes via nettime-l >> <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: >> >> It's hard to see any meaning whatsoever in the word terrorist, when the >> supposedly legitimate Israeli state supports mob violence by settlers and >> uses its army to commit indiscriminate murder and mass destruction of >> property every day. >> >> An oppressed and effectively caged people mounted a violent insurgency >> against a historically violent enemy. That enemy, true to its history, >> proceeded to carry out a genocide. This is terrifying, but I can't make out >> who is or is not a terrorist. Sure, Hamas has sworn to destroy Israel for >> years. But Israel has destroyed countless Palestinian villages over many >> many decades, they've stolen land, assassinated tens of thousands, put >> others into camps and prisons, the list of atrocities is endless. >> >> Given that the hardware for all the current death and destruction comes >> from the US and Europe, I don't know how to believe in the moral high >> ground that a term like terrorism would claim. Kafka got it right in his >> last novel, Amerika, where the protagonist entering New York harbor is >> struck by the sight of the sword held aloft by the Statue of Liberty. "So >> high," he marvels. >> >> BH >> >>> On Sun, Jul 13, 2025 at 4:49 AM Oliver Gassner via nettime-l < >>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: >>> >>> Am Sa., 12. Juli 2025 um 19:09 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens < >>> patr...@puscii.nl>: >>> >>>> >>>> Oliver, >>>> That Hamas is a terrorist organisation is generally well known to the >>>> readers of both Nettime and The Guardian, the latter ritually mentioning >>> 7 >>>> October in every article about the Gaza situation. So your making Owen >>>> Jones' opinion piece for 'a little less convincing' because it does not >>>> mention it must be read in my opinion as 'this whole Owen Jones stand by >>>> Palestine Action piece is biased, pro-terrorist bullshit'. >>>> >>> >>> Patrice, >>> >>> Well, I can hardly tell you what has to happen in your brain when you read >>> my words. >>> If you knew me, you'd know, that if I had meant that I'd have written that. >>> >>> A line like "being pro-Palestine does not of course mean one is pro-Hamas >>> and it's actions" would have been enough. >>> >>> NOT mentioning Hamas at all seems ... negligent if not... intentional. >>> I would even refrain from suggesting the one or the other. >>> >>> Also, showing understanding for terrorist actions does not condone them. >>> >>> Let's look at the argument analytically. >>> >>> It is: "Being pro-Palestine does not mean you are a terrorist." >>> (The article ends here ;) >>> Let us continue waking Socrates and Plato from the dead. >>> "Now, why would one think so?" >>> "Because in Gaza there is a semi-administrative semi-military/terrorist >>> group called Hamas that has been attacking Israel for years, is sworn to >>> destroy Israel and (is said to have) orchestrated the October attacks that >>> mainly targeted civilians and included killing kids and raping women" >>> "Ah, so pro-Palestinian means pro-Hamas?" >>> "No, many Palestinians are against Hamas but do not dare to speak out for >>> fear of being killed by Hamas. Being pro-Palestinian means, that one is >>> opposed to the death and starvation that the plaestinians both in gaza and >>> the west bank are subjected to." >>> "Ah, so I can be anti-terrorist, anti-Hamas and pro Palestinian?" >>> "Yup." >>> "I get your argument now." >>> === >>> But you are of course welcome to think whatever you want, as long as you do >>> not claim that your thoughts reflect reality. >>> >>> Oliver >>> >>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *"Oliver Gassner" <frak...@gmx.de> >>>> *To: *"<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>>> collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" < >>>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> >>>> *Cc: *"Patrice Riemens" <patr...@puscii.nl> >>>> *Sent: *Saturday, 12 July, 2025 16:50:52 >>>> *Subject: *Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ... >>>> >>>> Well, the word Hamas (which is rather undoubtedly a terrorist >>> organization >>>> - not only after the October attacs) and also differentiate between Hamas >>>> and 'ordinary Palestinians' would have do the (otherwise very good) >>>> argument, a whole lot of good. >>>> Without that mention, I fear, it is a little less convincing. >>>> >>>> Am Mi., 9. Juli 2025 um 15:20 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens via nettime-l < >>>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ... and never mind the Suffragettes! >>>>> >>>>> Original to: >>>>> >>>>> >>> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/09/palestine-action-britain-support-protest-law >>>> >>>> >>>> .... >>>> >>> -- >>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >>> # more info: https://www.nettime.org >>> # contact: nettime-l-ow...@lists.nettime.org >>> >> -- >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: https://www.nettime.org >> # contact: nettime-l-ow...@lists.nettime.org > -- > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > # contact: nettime-l-ow...@lists.nettime.org -- # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: https://www.nettime.org # contact: nettime-l-ow...@lists.nettime.org
