Minka, I don't think you go far enough - we should be teaching critical thinking and media literacy to most of the adults, as well as the next generation.  That's been part of what I've been trying to do locally, to varying levels of success; and not just me - I think Liverpool's artistic community (with a decent strand of tech/media artists) has helped lots in that, along with a bunch of us older techies who've been-there-done-that with the VC startup approach (and seen it both succeed and fail).  I tried to convey some of that to an audience of teachers at the Makernoise maker-education conference last year - my slides and notes are at https://doesliverpool.com/slides/makernoise-talk-we-dont-need-another-hero/

However, you've prompted me to realise that while part of my standard patter as to why we founded DoES Liverpool is that "the more people in the city who know about the possibilities of these new technologies, the more interesting businesses and projects and stuff will come out of it", I should be weaving in something about critical-thinking into that too.

Molly, the UK maker scene also skews heavily middle-class.  I think that's something that James (I think) and I are partly railing against with stressing the importance of it needing to provide a way to earn a living.  It's something I've been conscious of, but have made limited inroads into addressing.

The Liverpool equivalent of Maker Faire, the (upcoming, come and visit on the 29th!) Liverpool MakeFest [1] has always been run in collaboration with the city's library service and filled central library with all manner of makers and crafters.  It's vehemently free to enter, and being spread through the library means all manner of other members of the public encounter it.  It coincided with Armed Forces Day a couple of years back, resulting in a regimental brass band milling round the stands; another time I explained the items on our display to a woman in her mid-80s with failing eyesight who visits every Saturday morning to read the papers and suddenly encountered a mass of people there too.  She had some of the fanciest tech in the place, with a little hand-held camera that could read text out to her through headphones, or "a black box holding a little bloke on a deck-chair who reads things out to me" as she put it.

In the UK there seems to be a decent amount of influence from the maker movement into education.  No doubt helped by Raspberry Pi and micro:bit, but from others too.  There are definitely elements of the tech-startup Make approach, but the more inclusive grassroots approach seems to be winning out.  The founders of Liverpool MakeFest have been evangelising making in education, and encouraging makerspaces in schools - one of them, Caroline Keep, is Times Education Supplement teacher of the year, and set up Spark Penketh makerspace [2] in her school; and it's slowly spreading to other schools - nearby Neston High has a makerspace with a precious plastics shredder and are currently fund-raising to build a sit-on Strandbeest out of recycled milk bottles...

The library services in the UK are also running with the maker activities - Denise Jones from Liverpool libraries is advising other librarians on the MakeFest model, leading to MakeFests in Stoke-on-Trent and Chester and more in planning; and Amy Hearn over in Huddersfield started micro:bits in libraries [4], leading to lots of libraries around the country having kit you can borrow like you would a book.

Finally, to pick up Garnet's questions about 'a "Post-Making" type of organization'.  I realise I'm projecting /my/ biases onto it, but I'm more interested in which organisation/s/ could replace Make, or even better, how do we build a broad coalition of organisations and initiatives to replace Make?

As you point out Garnet, the various Dorkbot groups pre-date Make; there are now lots of makerspaces and hackspaces to provide (at least a start on) physical spaces for making; in the UK we've got a growing set of MakeFests to do some of the public outreach and celebration; there are the European hacker camps to give more inward-focused gatherings.  Why replace one not-representative-of-all-of-us over-arching organisation with another (with all the politics and "but I've been making far longer than so-and-so" that we'd all succumb to), when we could promote a slightly messier and more diverse alternative.

I don't really know what that would look like, and I can see there's a hole to be filled (in the US at least, maybe outside the UK too) in how the community organises replacements for (mini-)MakerFaires, but that needn't speak for all of making.  It might not need to be much beyond a wiki somewhere that people can list themselves as maker or maker-adjacent groups, projects, spaces, events...  I'm regularly checking out (or pointing people at) https://www.hackspace.org.uk/ or https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/List_of_Hackerspaces to help them to find their local space.  A similar resource for other maker activities and a communal culture of sharing it with people might get us 80% of the way there...?

Cheers,

Adrian.

[1] https://lpoolmakefest.org/

[2] https://www.penkethhigh.org/spark/

[3] https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/neston-high-school-makers

[4] https://microbit.org/en/2017-10-23-libraries/


On 14/06/2019 23:05, Molly Hankwitz wrote:

Death of Maker


Maker Faire promoted, as many have pointed out, an artisanal/technological relationship and hands on DIY production and in areas of education and experimentation. All great!


They tried to be inclusive with low-cost materiality and open access workshops and free-timed events, but underlying this effort was the perpetually ignored issue of class; presumed capacity to afford the 25.00US ticket, and parking fees in San Mateo, or own a car or ride a train ride to be part of it from small towns or near by cities of San Jose and San Francisco here in the West. I’m sure there were such caveats of inclusion in NY Maker Faire as well. That Maker ethos spread to many cities and had such great public relations is certainly excellent. The project tried to be inclusive with its appeal to generic materials, organicism, and everyday technology but there were inhibitors and ultimately the Maker Faire, at least, was a middle-class, largely white, and increasingly commercial event. For contrast, Gray Area and Intersection's Urban Prototyping 'fair' (2012?) was in the streets - with techno-artists 'making' or demonstrating all over San Francisco's middle Market St area - with great exposure to all kinds of publics.


That said, great upshot of widespread Maker movement/campaign, publication; experimental-like idea promotion and heralding of “non-expertise”as means to learn, and the putting of collaboration within reach of many has been the growth of“maker spaces” in public sector zones. This surely helps counteractsome class issues which evolve from pricing and historic exclusion in tech and the arts such as public library systems, (SFPL has The Mix, teen space),our K-12 public schools (Hoover MS built a Maker-space), storefronts (there are several walk-in and work, including Double Union, also in SF, which is trans/LBGTQ space) and maybe even websites such as Adafruit (though not sure of timeline) emerged during the Maker heyday.


How these spaces will survive and change without umbrella Maker movement, or leading publication, remains a question.

Disney got involved with Maker Faire, and that should tell everyone a lot.


One hopes the spirit of ‘making’ and ‘collaboration’ promoted to non-technologists and to many outsiders of the arts/technology fields, will have subtle and lasting repercussions in the next wave - and will continue to permeate education and beyond.


How has “Maker” influenced European education?



https://www.urbanlibraries.org/member-resources/makerspaces-in-libraries


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_makerspace


https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/03/everyone-is-a-maker/473286/


http://redtri.com/new-york/hands-on-nycs-best-makerspaces/


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00048623.2016.1228163


http://eprints.qut.edu.au/73071/1/73071.pdf


https://researchbank.rmit.edu.au/view/rmit:22717/n2006043067.pdf


https://www.edutopia.org/blog/designing-a-school-makerspace-jennifer-cooper



Molly


On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 8:34 AM Minka Stoyanova <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    Hello all,

    I've really been enjoying this discussion in the wake of Make's
    dissolution. As noted, the corporatization, whitewashing, and
    delocalization of potentially critical and creative diy approaches
    was certainly a problem with the "maker movement" as defined by
    Make. I also completely agree that the focus on 3D printing over
    CNC, laser cutting, or (even) traditional building is a problem.
    I'm excited about Garnet's proposals for a new direction/umbrella
    for critical approaches as well as Adrian's proposals, that recall
    arts and crafts ideas for 21st century problems.

    I wonder though, about the educational angle. My own local
    makerspace as well as local non-profits that aim to bring tech
    education to young people (often underserved) relied on the Make /
    "maker" phenomenon for tools, educational resources, and funding.
    Perhaps making an LED blink isn't really interesting for a
    critically-minded artist; as a critically-minded artist, I
    certainly feel that way. But, it's certainly a stepping stone for
    tech education. Make had a significant role in that sphere.

    However, I see an potentially interesting/exciting new direction
    that could come of the dissolution of Make's stronghold in the
    realm of education. Tech education could be more than "teaching
    electronics to kids" -- which is /very/ important, in my opinion.
    It could (and I think, should) include teaching critical
    approaches to technology, teaching media literacy, critical
    thinking, and environmental thinking. I think the discussion here
    could point towards ways of bringing those perspectives into what
    was, under Make, a largely naive approach.

    Is there a space in what Adrian and Garnet's proposals for youth
    education? ...for educating the next generation? ...or, for aiding
    the educators of the next generation?

    Minka
    (trying to contribute and not just "lurk" so much)

    On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 6:56 AM James Wallbank <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

        Responses both to Richard, Adrian and Garnet - great points!
        (Hope this doesn't make things difficult!)

        I think that, taking a longer perspective, the key question we
        have to ask is whether the "Maker Movement" contains (or even
        could contain) potential genuinely to transform and empower
        localities. Relocalisation was one of the big sales pitches
        for the internet (remember all that breathless talk of working
        from home, and a new layer of prosperous digital artisans?)
        yet what we see, twenty five years later, is hyper-centralisation.

        Just as an example, we used to use the apartment above
        "Makers" for AirBNB. So British people, visiting us in
        Sheffield, could pay people in San Fransico for the right to
        transact with us. Partly in response, we've taken the step of
        scrapping the apartment, breaking through the ceiling of the
        shop, reinstituting the staircase, and opening up two more
        floors to local commerce, culture and micro-industry!

        But can we make that decision make sense? Are we just utopian
        silly-billies, prepared to waste our resources on subsidising
        local culture - or can we make it pay at least as much as we
        made from our previous activities?

        Only by fairly universal engagement can Making begin to
        address the sorts of global issues that posters like Adrian
        and Garnet have identified (resource usage, poor resource
        recovery, social inequalities, alienation...). And to get
        fairly universal engagement, it HAS TO PAY.

        Richard, you say "my point of view the greatest value of the
        maker movement has been an explosion of people making things
        that don't entirely make sense and that are not intended as
        commercial ventures. That's not an issue, that's the point."

        If we maintain that the quirky, fascinating, but ultimately
        unprofitable experiments are the core value of the Maker
        Movement, then be prepared to accept that it WILL wither and
        die - or rather, simply retreat into the world of hobbyists
        orbiting academic institutions. Throughout history there have
        been movements that have resulted in things that don't
        entirely make sense - it hasn't needed the Maker Movement to
        make that happen. Are you in danger of conflating the
        experimental excrescences of creative young people with what
        we're now calling "making" (that intersection of the physical
        and the digital that's made possible by affordable digital
        manufacturing equipment and dirt-cheap, programmable
        microelectronics)?

        I believe that the Maker Movement points to value an order of
        magnitude of greater - a contextual change, in which
        localities are transformed and empowered as they take on the
        skills, the engagement and the tools to make their own quirky,
        responsive and particular products and emergent cultures
        suitable for their own needs.

        But just because something is fairly universal, that STILL
        doesn't mean that it has potential to revitalise localities.
        This is where I have an issue with 3D Print. Take, as an
        analogy, inkjet printing. Inkjet printing is almost universal
        (who doesn't have one, two, or more inkjet printers
        languishing in their attic or office storeroom?) but the only
        jobs that this creates are manufacturing and selling Inkjets
        and Ink. Despite the ubiquitous distribution of hardware, the
        (often diabolically networked) software, combined with
        proprietary ink cartridges, means that all the profits are
        spirited away from where YOU live.

        The product of an Inkjet printer is good enough for you to
        frame and put on the mantelpiece (until it fades and you print
        out another one), but they probably aren't good enough to
        sell. These types of technology give you the illusion that you
        are a producer (of nice colour reproductions), when actually,
        you are a consumer (of ink). I think that 3D Printers
        currently have a similar economic effect - they're the end of
        the value chain. You can print out pirate space marines, (or
        marine space pirates, come to that) and use them for your
        tabletop battles, but that doesn't mean you can sell them
        legally, or at at a price that makes sense. You're the end of
        the value chain.

        On the other hand, you can feed laser cutters or CNCs with an
        incredibly wide range of materials, from a vast range of
        suppliers. And crucially, those materials have purposes OTHER
        THAN being fed into a laser cutter or CNC. If you also have a
        cheap planer-thicknesser, then almost any recovered wood
        product can be your raw material.

        These questions of microeconomics may get us away from the
        fascination of the amateur hackathon - and researchers may
        feel less immediately excited - but they matter for the shape
        of the bigger picture in the longer term.

        There's a whole other post - in fact, a whole thread - to be
        made about Making and Open Source. Is Open Source (as distinct
        from local, personal sharing) actually the thin end of the
        "globalised business as usual" wedge? I'll leave it for now.

        All the best,

        James
        =====

        On 12/06/2019 17:35, Richard Sewell wrote:
        James - I think from my point of view the greatest value of
        the maker movement has been an explosion of people making
        things that don't entirely make sense and that are not
        intended as commercial ventures. That's not an issue, that's
        the point. They are learning that they can pull ideas out of
        their heads into the real world, they are learning to
        envision things and then make them and then learn from them,
        and they are making their own marvels

        I'm very much in favour of startups and the kinds of
        enterprises that have sprung out of the world of makers, but
        only a small fraction of the people that want to make things
        actually want to make it into a business. It's one of the
        things about Make's approach that I never really got on with
        - the idea that there was a sort of admirable or even
        inevitable progression from making things for yourself to
        starting a business.

        Richard

        On 12/06/2019 16:19, James Wallbank wrote:
        Hi Adrian,

        I'm really interested in this comment:

        "There are people in the space who see it as a way to
        bootstrap their startup, and there is a risk that it can be
        exploited by someone only out for themselves, but the
        culture of the space mostly manages to protect itself from
        that."

        My view is that the key to wider adoption of superlocal
        making is not just to allow, but to encourage people to use
        your space to bootstrap their startup, and find some way to
        that the space benefits via that.

        In our case at "Makers", we manufacture for others for
        money, so there's nobody we like better than people who are
        bootstrapping a startup and shifting lots of product! As
        peoples' micro-enterprises take off, we make, they pay, and
        they take away items of greater value than we charge.
        Everyone's winning!

        The issue, it seems to me, is that many makers want to make
        "just out of interest" and manufacture fascinating things
        that just don't make economic sense. For us, having a shop
        in front of our workshop really helps - when you put
        something on the shelf, you can start, quite easily, to see
        what price it must have to sell (not always lower than you
        hoped, BTW). Typical maker products, chock-full of sensors,
        logic and LEDs, often cost more than people will pay for them.

        Getting to grips with the reality of products, and the hard
        facts of economies of scale (a wifi enabled, music playing,
        colour changing light-bulb retails for £6!) starts people
        thinking about "the new economy". Things people are prepared
        to pay a sensible price for are ludicrously specific and
        particular. They're about them, their lives, and their
        particular context.

        This flies in the face of just about everything we've been
        taught (and how we've been taught) about making: look for
        the common factors, ways to increase efficiency, ways to
        generalise solutions, methods to scale up. Perhaps we need
        to start thinking about the unique, the special, the "only
        works here and now". Perhaps the things that the new
        artisans will manufacture in each locality will be not just
        the hard to replicate at scale, but the pointless to
        replicate at scale.

        Cheers,

        James

        P.S. Was talk of the death of Nettime somewhat premature?

        =====

        On 12/06/2019 15:20, Adrian McEwen wrote:

        There are people in the space who see it as a way to
        bootstrap their startup, and there is a risk that it can be
        exploited by someone only out for themselves, but the
        culture of the space mostly manages to protect itself from
        that.

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        On 13/06/2019 03:55, Garnet Hertz wrote:
        This discussion is great - I just subscribed with Chris's
        message to me - it's nice to connect with like-minded people
        around this topic. I've obviously been hanging around the
        wrong places online (like Facebook).

        "maker as a disconnection to class struggle" - I could talk
        about this for YEARS - or at least thousands of words (see
        below if you don't believe me):

        In my view (and I know I'm preaching to the choir here) is
        that the maker movement was primarily an attempt to
        standardize, spread and commercialize what artists and
        hackers were already doing into a “Martha Stewart for Geeks”
        by Make magazine. The founders literally used "Martha Stewart
        for Geeks" as their vision - this isn't a metaphor. My book
        project, for example, looks to articulate one of the many
        strands of this scene that predated making — DIY electronics
        in art — and it reaches back nearly a hundred years. As many
        of you know, it has a totally fascinating history. Other
        strands include hacker culture since the 1970s, the free
        software movement since 1983, ubiquitous computing since
        1991, open source hardware since 1997, the explosion of craft
        practices since Y2K, the Arduino platform since 2003, the
        FabLab movement since 2005, and the material turn of
        philosophy over the past several decades — all of these are
        maker movements, and most of them are more of a social
        movement than what Make has envisioned. The maker movement as
        articulated by Make lacks fuel of its own and offers little
        of unique cultural value beyond giving us the nondisciplinary
        label of the ‘maker’ in 2005. Make magazine organized,
        promoted and ‘platformed’ the maker movement as its brand,
        but the leadership of makers came from other sources (as
        noted above).

        What is most interesting about the idea of making is not the
        term itself — it is the pieces of hacking, craft, DIY culture
        and electronic art that were left out of constructing the
        idea of the "maker" (at least in North America), which was
        largely carved out by Maker Media to serve its private
        business needs related to selling magazines and event
        tickets. Maker Media very clearly sanitized things from the
        hacker scene (maker = hacker - controversy) and from the
        art/DIY scene (Dorkbot, especially - which I ran in Los
        Angeles at the time). The newer understanding of ‘making’ is
        not really an all-encompassing term for all, but is focused
        on a specific subset of ideas, primarily exists in a limited
        geography of influence, has a limited ecosystem of tools, and
        follows a specific form for projects that are considerably
        different and more constrained than the ‘making’ that existed
        before. The scene envisioned by Maker Media was almost
        exclusively focused on producing work as a leisure pursuit,
        which is a total misunderstanding with how many hackers or
        artists work.

        In retrospect, the maker scene rode two major waves: the
        Arduino and 3D printing. I see its death as partially a
        result of never being able to find a third wave. Maker Media
        was also constructed as a relatively financially heavy
        structure that needed a lot of fuel to survive -- it wasn't
        an artist collective. In terms of financial waves, the
        Arduino provided vital technological, social and ethical glue
        that massively helped Make magazine launch. The Ardunio
        technical platform provided an accessible and uniform venue
        for sharing project prototypes, and its open source hardware
        provided a novel and exciting blueprint for how physical
        electronic objects could be prototyped and distributed. The
        Arduino and Make had a symbiotic and intertwined relationship
        with each other, with Arduino providing the hardware, mindset
        and seed community for Make, and Make providing media
        coverage and scores of fresh users for the Arduino hardware
        platform.

        A similarly intertwined relationship formed a few years later
        between consumer-level 3D printing and Make magazine and its
        affiliated Maker Faire. In hindsight, the 3D printing
        movement was synonymous with the maker movement between 2009
        to 2013, and this impact is still felt today. Of the many
        projects and companies involved in the rapid expansion of
        inexpensive 3D printing after 2009, MakerBot was central —
        and Make magazine largely served as its promotional sidekick.

        The maker movement is somewhat significant in that it
        highlights how alienated contemporary western culture has
        become from the manual craft of building your own objects,
        and how wholly absorbed it has been enveloped in consumer
        culture. The maker movement works counter this alienation,
        but does so with considerably broad strokes — almost to the
        extent that making anything qualifies as being part of the
        movement. Instead of looking at the maker movement as a large
        interdisciplinary endeavour, it can also be interpreted as a
        re-categorization of all manual fabrication under a single
        banner. Language typically expands into a rich lexicon of
        terms when a field grows, and the generality of ‘making’ is
        the polar opposite. Ceramicists, welders, sculptors,
        luthiers, amateur radio builders, furniture makers and
        inventors have been conflated into the singular category of
        makers, and the acceptance of this shift seems to indicate
        that any form of making is novel enough in popular culture
        that it is not worth discerning what is being built.

        If looking at what typically constitutes a social movement,
        Make magazine’s maker movement never fit the bill. For
        example, Glasberg and Deric define social movements as
        “organizational structures and strategies that may empower
        oppressed populations to mount effective challenges and
        resist the more powerful and advantaged elites.” If we ask
        what oppressed population Make magazine serves, it clearly
        doesn't have one. If looked at from an economic perspective,
        Make’s readership contains considerably more powerful and
        advantaged elites than the oppressed: the publication’s own
        statistics claim that its audience has a median household
        income of $125,000 USD, over double the national US median of
        $59,039. Make’s maker movement is primarily a pitch to sell
        empowerment to the already empowered — in a 2012 Intel-funded
        research study on makers, “empowerment” is identified as a
        key motivator for the affluent group, and Make primarily
        sustained itself by catering to this audience until it
        realized that 3D printing and the Arduino weren't everything
        they promised to be. Or maybe people finally realized that
        they had enough 3D printed Yoda heads and blinking LED
        Arduino projects -- and that building stuff of cultural or
        design value was actually quite difficult.

        If anybody else is interested in reading a draft of my book,
        just fill this out: https://forms.gle/1F8787aJqSSapjPW9 -
        I'll mail out about a dozen physical hardcopies in exchange
        for harsh feedback.

        I'm also still collecting thoughts about a "Post-Making" type
        of organization here: https://forms.gle/JBM6DDFT7436p43G9

        Some of the responses are as follows:
        * Model it after dorkbot but instead of having meetings it
        can be geared around smaller regional Faires
        * I would run it as a non profit and make sure that there are
        people from all over the world representing. Not only so US
        focused.
        * Focus on low tech and tech critism...as much as possible
        far from western culture...let say the gambiara creative
        movement in LATAM (brazil) or Cuban style repair culture
        guerilla, community envisioned and run
        publications/workshops/happenings without the 'red tape' so
        often discussed as part of the Maker Media legacy. so, no
        forced branding, no forced commonalities (other than perhaps
        a shared manifesto), no minimum number of participants or
        fundraising requirement for it to be a 'real' event of the
        community, and much less of a focus on attracting, and then
        satisfying, corporate sponsors.
        * Should be about critical making, open source, skill
        sharing, critical thinking and more...
        * I think the most important thing is to help local people
        meet up with each other in person. This should go far beyond
        people who already go to a hackerspace - this is something
        that Make did well by bringing together all sorts of people
        from children, university students, hackers, artists, etc. I
        don't think this has to be large scale.
        * Member-run co-operative; leadership positions only for
        women; women-only days; focus on understanding biases built
        into technologies and imagining ways around this (critical
        technical practice)

        And if anybody has made it this far down the page, I'm
        interested in talking to people working at universities that
        are working in this field.

        On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 4:23 PM Adrian McEwen
        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

            Good question. Can you see my hands waving from over
            there? :-D There
            is much still to conjure up, I feel like I'm stood
            looking around and
            saying "where we are now doesn't seem all that great. 
            What about that
            ground over there, that looks like it could be better,
            what if we head
            that way?"

            It seems to me we are facing many challenges: the climate
            emergency;
            labour conditions; plastic everywhere; wealth inequality...

            Assuming we want to do something about all (or even some)
            of that,
            there's lots of work to be done.

            The hair shirt environmentalism didn't succeed in the
            70s, it's even
            less likely to succeed now, so we need new ways of
            continuing to make
            (at least a proportion of) the luxuries we're used to
            (Bruce's last
            viridian note [1] is my go-to on that matter) without
            just outsourcing
            it to huge sweatshops in China.

            How do we wean ourselves off plastic?  Maybe we return to
            more
            traditional materials like wood, glass, ceramics,
            textiles.  Apple is
            CNC milling its laptops out of blocks of metal, so we
            could do similar
            with wood.  Or look at the experiments in materials from
            groups like
            Materiom [2].

            What happens when container ships can no longer burn oil
            to get around?
            Maybe that skews economics back to more local production?

            If we're repairing our products more then every town will
            need a bunch
            of people who can design replacement parts and make the
            repairs.  The
            old Dyson vacuum knocking around DoES Liverpool has
            custom shapes of
            nozzles 3D printed and its on-off button is a 3D printed
            replacement -
            not to Dyson's exact shape, but perfectly functional. 
            Over time we'll
            build a commons of parts for everything, but there'll
            always be
            customisations and variations.

            Open hardware will then have an advantage because the
            schematics and
            designs will all be already available for that.

            We have pick-and-place machines to assemble our
            electronics.  The geeks
            are working out how to build the desktop versions, maybe
            it's only a
            matter of time before they can start designing the
            inverse - machines to
            selectively unsolder parts and sort them into bins for reuse.

            That might not be economically viable to begin with,
            maybe a citizens
            dividend will give some people enough of an income that
            they can decide
            it's more interesting and useful than a job in a call centre.

            These are all baby steps, and there are holes in my
            arguments you can
            drive a bus through; but they're steps in the right
            direction and the
            more of them we take, the more momentum will build into
            attacking the
            related ones that seem insurmountable now.  How do we
            scale it all
            quickly enough?  By sharing how we're doing it so others
            can join in and
            share their improvements.

            Makers aren't the answer to everything, but I think
            there's an
            opportunity for us to provide an important piece of the
            puzzle.

            Cheers,

            Adrian.

            [1]
            
https://web.archive.org/web/20160407032751/http://www.viridiandesign.org/2008/11/last-viridian-note.html

            [2] https://materiom.org/

            On 12/06/2019 21:31, Richard Sewell wrote:
            > Adrian - I'd agree with all of that - but can you say a
            bit more about
            > the last bit:
            > "working out how we carry that forward into ways to
            manufacture
            > everything else"
            >
            > R.
            >
            > On 12/06/2019 21:20, Adrian McEwen wrote:
            >> I think the points both of you make are important. 
            Everyone should
            >> have the agency (if they choose to use it, not
            everyone has to be a
            >> maker) to make whatever they like /and/ we should be
            helping those
            >> who want to build businesses around their making to do
            so and succeed.
            >>
            >> In DoES Liverpool the more commercially-minded makers
            benefit from
            >> the experiments and skill-sharing of those "just"
            pursuing an
            >> interest; and the culture of knowledge- and
            skill-sharing goes the
            >> other way too, along with a greater contribution to
            the financial
            >> cost of running the makerspace.
            >>
            >> James, I think I did a poor job of crafting the
            sentence you quoted.
            >> As I said earlier in my post "we /did/ deliberately
            choose to
            >> encourage more businesses", and they do benefit the
            space.  Your
            >> point elsewhere about the utility of laser-cutters
            over 3D printers
            >> is borne out in our experience too, with there being
            six more
            >> laser-cutters in the city as a direct result of
            businesses getting
            >> started using ours and then outgrowing our facilities
            and buying
            >> their own (and of those, four of them are businesswomen).
            >>
            >> The makerspace (/maker movement) doesn't need to
            protect itself
            >> against businesses, it needs to protect itself against
            bad actors
            >> acting badly.
            >>
            >> If we're going to find a route to a future where an
            open-source,
            >> collaborative mindset and widely distributed (and
            cost-effectively
            >> scaleable) manufacturing allows a panoply of
            individual and
            >> earning-a-good-living making, we need to carve out
            spaces and time
            >> for that to take shape.  The risk is that it's
            co-opted into a
            >> business-as-usual mainstream.
            >>
            >> A raft of new artisans succeeding at an
            arts-and-crafts movement for
            >> the modern day is a good step in the right direction,
            and we need to
            >> be working out how we carry that forward into ways to
            manufacture
            >> everything else.
            >>
            >> Cheers,
            >>
            >> Adrian.
            >>
            >> On 12/06/2019 17:35, Richard Sewell wrote:
            >>> James - I think from my point of view the greatest
            value of the
            >>> maker movement has been an explosion of people making
            things that
            >>> don't entirely make sense and that are not intended
            as commercial
            >>> ventures. That's not an issue, that's the point. They
            are learning
            >>> that they can pull ideas out of their heads into the
            real world,
            >>> they are learning to envision things and then make
            them and then
            >>> learn from them, and they are making their own marvels
            >>>
            >>> I'm very much in favour of startups and the kinds of
            enterprises
            >>> that have sprung out of the world of makers, but only
            a small
            >>> fraction of the people that want to make things
            actually want to
            >>> make it into a business. It's one of the things about
            Make's
            >>> approach that I never really got on with - the idea
            that there was a
            >>> sort of admirable or even inevitable progression from
            making things
            >>> for yourself to starting a business.
            >>>
            >>> Richard
            >>>
            >>> On 12/06/2019 16:19, James Wallbank wrote:
            >>>> Hi Adrian,
            >>>>
            >>>> I'm really interested in this comment:
            >>>>
            >>>> "There are people in the space who see it as a way
            to bootstrap
            >>>> their startup, and there is a risk that it can be
            exploited by
            >>>> someone only out for themselves, but the culture of
            the space
            >>>> mostly manages to protect itself from that."
            >>>>
            >>>> My view is that the key to wider adoption of
            superlocal making is
            >>>> not just to allow, but to encourage people to use
            your space to
            >>>> bootstrap their startup, and find some way to that
            the space
            >>>> benefits via that.
            >>>>
            >>>> In our case at "Makers", we manufacture for others
            for money, so
            >>>> there's nobody we like better than people who are
            bootstrapping a
            >>>> startup and shifting lots of product! As peoples'
            micro-enterprises
            >>>> take off, we make, they pay, and they take away
            items of greater
            >>>> value than we charge. Everyone's winning!
            >>>>
            >>>> The issue, it seems to me, is that many makers want
            to make "just
            >>>> out of interest" and manufacture fascinating things
            that just don't
            >>>> make economic sense. For us, having a shop in front
            of our workshop
            >>>> really helps - when you put something on the shelf,
            you can start,
            >>>> quite easily, to see what price it must have to sell
            (not always
            >>>> lower than you hoped, BTW). Typical maker products,
            chock-full of
            >>>> sensors, logic and LEDs, often cost more than people
            will pay for
            >>>> them.
            >>>>
            >>>> Getting to grips with the reality of products, and
            the hard facts
            >>>> of economies of scale (a wifi enabled, music
            playing, colour
            >>>> changing light-bulb retails for £6!) starts people
            thinking about
            >>>> "the new economy". Things people are prepared to pay
            a sensible
            >>>> price for are ludicrously specific and particular.
            They're about
            >>>> them, their lives, and their particular context.
            >>>>
            >>>> This flies in the face of just about everything
            we've been taught
            >>>> (and how we've been taught) about making: look for
            the common
            >>>> factors, ways to increase efficiency, ways to
            generalise solutions,
            >>>> methods to scale up. Perhaps we need to start
            thinking about the
            >>>> unique, the special, the "only works here and now".
            Perhaps the
            >>>> things that the new artisans will manufacture in
            each locality will
            >>>> be not just the hard to replicate at scale, but the
            pointless to
            >>>> replicate at scale.
            >>>>
            >>>> Cheers,
            >>>>
            >>>> James
            >>>>
            >>>> P.S. Was talk of the death of Nettime somewhat
            premature?
            >>>>
            >>>> =====
            >>>>
            >>>> On 12/06/2019 15:20, Adrian McEwen wrote:
            >>>>>
            >>>>> There are people in the space who see it as a way
            to bootstrap
            >>>>> their startup, and there is a risk that it can be
            exploited by
            >>>>> someone only out for themselves, but the culture of
            the space
            >>>>> mostly manages to protect itself from that.
            >>>>>
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        Dr. Garnet Hertz
        Canada Research Chair in Design and Media Arts
        Emily Carr University of Art and Design
        520 East 1st Avenue, Vancouver, BC, Canada  V5T 0H2


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