On 12/7/2003 at 8:23 AM JoeHill wrote: >Lanman and Lyvim have been slagging me for hours now, and all I did >was question his use of reply-to settings! > >This is fucking ridiculous, I get called "bitch", I get laboriously and >thoroughly flamed, and *I'm* the one who gets criticised. > >I've really had just about enough of this place. I step out of line an >inch and people are all over me. Lanman behaves like a raving madman and not a >fuckin' peep of protest. > >Well, I'm not gonna do what Lyvim and Lanman want me to do, get all pissy >and run away, but I will never forget this. What applies for them, applies for >me. Fair is fair. From now on, if I say something someone doesn't like, well >ya can go stuff it. > >-- >JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813 >Registered Linux user #282046 >Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >"Behind every great fortune is a crime." >-- Balzac
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Joe; Sometime's it's not what you say, it's the way you say it. That's what get's me pissed off. This list is a community, which means it full of diverse opinions and perspectives, but also full of different situatiuons. The problem I'm having with my email is real, regardless of what your ISTOP using friend is aware of. As I mentioned earlier, I have never used a Reply-To address on this list. Ever. I know why it shouldn't be used. But instead of taking that at face value, your first thought was to check and see if I was lying or not, and that's why you checked with someone you know who uses ISTOP. When you found that someone else with the same ISP has never had this problem, you immediately jumped to the conclusion that you were right, that I was lying and you had to prove it to the list. Rather than simply accepting that things are not always equal, you immediately went on the attack. For what? What could this possibly solve? Was this some form of gratification or validation of something? Perhaps an attempt to feel superior? I can only guess. The question here is, why bother at all? Why make the effort to disprove what I had to say about my situation? I wasn't using the Reply-To just for kicks! And I certainly wasn't using it just so I could piss off Joe Hill ! Almost everyone else on the list responded with patience, understanding, or humour about it, but they also offered suggestions and ideas. You didn't. That's what I mean about what you say and how you say it. Then you not only challenged what I have no control over, but also insulted a friend - Lyvim, when I was trying to pay him a compliment! And a humourous compliment at that! It was only a signature for Pete's sake! And you wonder how this could get personal? What did you expect? A pat on the back, and a "Well Done" ? This list operates like a club. It's about people who enjoy Linux, and while they may not enjoy the problems that crop up, they do enjoy solving them ! But it's also somewhat casual, and easy-going. Come to the list and get the latest on current events, the latest flame war ( which I'm sorry to say involves you and I - again! ), or the latest horror story about the which corporation is trying to screw which other corporation. Very few of the list-members will base their life on what is said or done on this list. They simply enjoy being part of a community to which they have something to contribute. Yes, there are also others that come here for help. In most cases, they get the help they need, and also offer to help others. That's also what this community is all about. But you seem to have forgotten the "Casual and Easy-Going" part. Sure there are Netiquette guidelines. And they're good guidelines. But they're ONLY guidelines. They do not form some sort of Bible which we must bow down to. They are simply guidelines to good manners on the list. They are not the rules by which a community polices itself. You seem to take pleasure in trying to throw these guidelines into people's faces every chance you get. Is it any wonder that you come across like a control freak! No offense intended, but perhaps you should try to understand how your actions and words might be interpreted by others on the list before you click that "Send/Recieve" button. Then to add to this, you insult people by essentially calling them liars, and putting them down. Can you please explain why? At least if it was making you feel like you're superior to others I'd understand why. I wouldn't agree, but I'd understand. How can you be surprised at all the attacks you get from something like this? You're track record on this list is what makes many people take you the wrong way. That's why you get attacked. I'm trying to understand what the big deal is here with you, and I'm not getting it. That's probably another aspect of this problem that we're having. I'd like to solve it so that we can get on with things. So let's see if we can find a common ground and move on with the important issues, shall we? And let's put things in perspective - for the record. You did not get attacked because you questioned my use of a Reply-To address. You got attacked because you insulted a friend of mine, and because some time after I had very politely responded to you with a full explanation of the problem, you decided to check up on whether or not I was telling the truth or not, and to come back to the list and call me a liar. What did it prove? What did it solve? Nothing. It just showed your true nature, and that's why you were attacked. So please don't try to gloss over the errors you made by putting the blame elsewhere. You brought this on yourself, and the only thing you managed to prove is that you can offend people. What a gift you have ! But when someone challenges you on something, you try to come across as the wounded individual. You need to remember that you are also responsible for the trouble and discontent you sow. So, don't talk about crossing the line. This whole mess got personal a long time ago when you decided to insult and attack Frankie. Now, instead of him, you try to attack me. And like last time, I'm not interested in putting up with your behaviour, not in the least! For example, when you spoke with this friend of yours that uses ISTOP, did you find any solutions to the problem? Did you bother top call ISTOP? If you do, ask for Samantha, Rob or Phil. Their phone number is on the site. Or was it just an attempt to prove me wrong? I suspect the conversation consisted of a few general questions, and went exactly the way you planned it . If I run into a situation like this, I try to help, not to disprove someone else. I try to learn, not to find a reason to attack someone. My goal is a workable solution, not to attack or challenge someone's credibility. What was your reason for asking this friend ? If it was to help, it didn't work. You offered absolutely no ideas or suggestions to solve the problem. And this time, that's when it became personal, and that's when you, not me, you - Crossed the Line! But you probably don't get it do you Joe? You're answer to this email will be to attack again, instead of working out a solution. You know it, I know it, Lyvim knows it, hell, most of the list knows it. There are times when you help, and make some damn good contributions to this list ! But like now, there are also times when you decide to go on the offensive, and the nature of your attacks is personal. Is it any surprise that you get flamed? You're either part of the solution or part of the problem Dude. Make a choice, but make it soon. This is getting boring. I've chosen to help, and to solve things. Can you make the necessary distinction and do the same? Lanman
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