I'm used to being in the minority. Doesn't bother me at all. Abe >===== Original Message From "dwyatt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ===== >I haven't played UT in several weeks (been playing ole' Starcraft again), >but before I quit I was in the top 100 CTF players worldwide according to >ngWorldStats. I just bring that out to show that I'm not just some nobody >who doesn't know what I'm talking about. > >I understand your want for beauty. I want it too. The point is, you don't >have to trade speed for beauty. This thread was originally brought up about >overclocking your processor. That would get you the exact same beauty w/ >faster performance and no tradeoffs except your processor would last 6 or 7 >years vs. 12 or 14, and what good is a 6 or 7 year-old processor anyways? >What Intel processor was in use 7 years ago? I think it was either the 286 >or 386SX. Those would do you nearly nothing today. > >Don't listen to people who complain about stability problems with >overclocking. If you have stability problems, don't overclock as much. >True, some processor/mobo combos won't overclock at all without stability >problems, but, in my experience that is rare. > >As far as FSAA in FPS games go, the difference is not that astounding. Have >you seen a Geforce 2 running on a monitor right next to a monitor driven >with a V5 with FSAA enabled? I have, my local CompUSA store has a display >set up with both cards on 19 inch viewsonic monitors running UT. You can >tell something is different about the V5, but you don't look at it and say >"WOW, that looks so much better". If you disable FSAA you DO notice how >much more smooth the game looks. > >All of this is IMHO, though. You have what you like, I have what I like. I >think you will find yourself in the minority, though if you were to survey >gamers as to whether they prefer the looks of FSAA or the speed without it. > >Regards, > > >dwyatt > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Abe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 9:35 PM >Subject: [newbie] OT video cards & gaming OT > > >> If it ever gets so that I need more fps to wipe the floor with the people >I'm >> playing with I'll go for the pure speed thing. As it is I can drop into >any >> server on the net in quake3, UT, Half-Life and CS and be in the top 3 >every >> time and whats happeneing on my monitor is beautiful. All the time. >> >> You should see cobble with 4xFSAA enabled. The depth of texture is >> incredible. >> >> I just got done playing UT with my brother, a friend of ours and a few >> stragglers from the net. 6 maps, average of 350 frags per hour between >them. >> On morbius I got 490 frags per hour. We were playing fatboy instagib >> mutators. My computer was the server too. FPS is not as big an issue as >> people want it to be in my opinion ;-) I shoot for the balance between >> beauty, playability and fun. >> >> >> Abe >> >> >> >===== Original Message From "dwyatt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ===== >> >I agree with nearly everything good ole' Tom says in that article. In >> >general though, I find Tom to be arrogant and stubborn. He usually will >not >> >back down from an issue even if he is proven wrong. >> > >> >You will also notice that Tom states that faster processor speeds REALLY >> >help Unreal Tournament. (come on, overclock that processor, I just KNOW >you >> >want too :) ) >> > >> >From my quick scan of the article (to refresh my memory, I read it when >it >> >came out), he does nothing to refute the point I made, that is, you can >not >> >have too many fps. >> > >> >You were saying you were happy with ~60 fps. If you are just a casual >> >gamer, I can understand that. You don't sound like a casual gamer (from >the >> >statement you made about all the hours you spend playing and hosting lan >> >parties). Here's the math: >> > >> >360 degree turn in 100 ms or .1 seconds >> >60 fps >> > >> >In .1 seconds at 60 fps, 6 frames are processed to the frame buffer and >to >> >the screen. >> > >> >This gives you a total of 6 frames to represent 360 degrees of a turn. >> >Thus, your view is only updated every 60 degrees as you turn around >(360/6). >> >Not good. >> > >> >Another point Tom didn't mention: >> > >> >He said that you will see very little difference in several low >resolution >> >benchmarks with the same game and card, because the system is unable to >feed >> >the 3d card vertices fast enough. Well, you will also see the same thing >as >> >you increase the resolution, for a different reason. In fact, it is the >> >exact opposite reason. You start bumping against the card's fill rate >> >ceiling. The card becomes unable to keep up with all the data being sent >to >> >it by the system. >> > >> >FSAA on a first-person shooter? Why? Racing or flight sim's I get, but >a >> >FPS? Well, like you said, you have your own tastes. >> > >> >Like they say, too each his own. >> > >> > >> > >> >dwyatt >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Abe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 5:04 PM >> >Subject: RE: [[newbie] Athlon thunderbird & ka7-100] >> > >> > >> >> I just bought a voodoo5 about three weeks ago. It is a great card. >I'll >> >> layout my thinking for you so you can see what I took into account. >> >> >> >> 1. My past experience: My old computer has two voodoo2's running in >SLI >> >> mode. They perform on par with video cards like ATI rage fury, rage >pro, >> >> matrox g400 and tnt2 with one exception. The visual quality is >superior. >> >> Also, those cards work equally well in linux and windows which is >> >important to >> >> me because I play a lot of games that are not and probably never will >be >> >> available for linux. 3Dfx drivers are excellent for both platforms and >> >while >> >> they are not updated as often as Nvidia's drivers they are updated when >> >they >> >> need to be. >> >> >> >> 2. My monitor refreshes at 75hz. So, frame rates beyond that are kind >of >> >> silly. A movie (film in a theater) displays about 32 fps. Movies look >> >real >> >> enough to me...you? neurons can only fire once every 130th of a >second. >> >so, >> >> I guess about 120-130 fps is about the most that is even theoretically >> >> percievable by a human. >> >> >> >> 3. My game playing habits. Given a choice between playing at 1024x768 >in >> >> 16bit color with details set to low and playing at 800x600 in 32 bit >with >> >> details set to medium I'll take 800x600 every time. In other words, >image >> >> quality is more important to me then frame rates above about 50fps. >Also, >> >the >> >> majority of the games I own will use glide and look better, are faster >> >when >> >> using it. I will choose Glide everytime over OpenGL or D3D assuming >that >> >> there is not a clear and unmistakeable advantage to one of the other >API's >> >in >> >> a particular game. >> >> >> >> 4. Extra's on the video card. I had an ATI rage fury with TV out, >> >S-Video >> >> out and a host of other features. I never used them once. They were a >> >total >> >> waste of money for me. Since I had already come to the conclusion that >I >> >was >> >> choosing between geforce and voodoo5, I looked at their extras. >> >> >> >> GeForce2, very very very fast. hardware T&L that only about three >games >> >> available right now use. Of those three I own and play quake3. More >> >games >> >> coming in the next year or so. Very good drivers updated very often >and >> >very >> >> good linux support. Software full screen anti-aliasing. >> >> >> >> voodoo5, very fast. Glide for all of my old games that I still play >> >> regularly. Half-Life, Star Siege, quake2, and so on. Glide for new >games >> >> too. Deus Ex, Unreal tournament, Quake3 and many more. Full screen >> >> anti-aliasing in hardware with no extra code required. It can be used >> >with >> >> every game out of the box. >> >> >> >> I choose the voodoo5 because it supports all of my old games, it plays >> >them >> >> with VERY high fps with no FSAA and it plays them at very playable fps >> >with >> >> FSAA being used. >> >> >> >> Typical Half-life fps with 4xFSAA enabled at 1024x768 in Glide are >50-70. >> >> Absolutely playable and so freaking beautiful that I can't really >describe >> >it >> >> with words. UT I play with 2xFSAA in Glide and sit about the same >50-70 >> >fps >> >> at 800x600 with every detail level cranked to the highest. >> >> >> >> In linux the current voodoo5 drivers drivers only use 1 of the chips on >> >the >> >> board. I play quake3 at 800x600 with 16 bit color depth and medium >detail >> >> levels. Time demo1 produces 57.2 fps. Imagine when the drivers that >use >> >both >> >> chips are available! If I want straight speed, I turn off wall >marks, >> >> ejecting brass, turn on simple items, play at 640x480 with vertex >lighting >> >and >> >> get 80-90 fps in game. >> >> >> >> In short, I read all the reviews, I read the hardware specs and I talk >> >with >> >> people who have the hardware to see what it really runs like before I >make >> >a >> >> decision. Generally I have a pretty goos idea of what I'm getting >before >> >I >> >> buy so I am usually very satisfied with my purchases. In the case of >the >> >> voodoo5 and duron based computer I built, it has exceeded my >expectations. >> >> I'm happy. >> >> >> >> >> >> Abe >> >> >> >> also, read this article for some illumination on the fps thing. >> >> >> >> http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/00q3/000704/index.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >===== Original Message From "dwyatt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ===== >> >> >Sorry if I missed something, because I've not been following this >thread. >> >> >But, anyway, you sound like you use your comp a lot like I do (very >> >hard). >> >> >I do have my PIII 500e o/c'd to 750 MHz. I have no stability >problems. >> >> >(stock Intel heatsink w/ no extra case or processor cooling and been >> >running >> >> >for 6 months 24/7) >> >> > >> >> >When it comes to 3d accelerator cards, what would you consider a more >> >> >accurate indicator of a card's worth than it's fps rating? Sure, >> >features >> >> >are important, but as far as 3d accelerator cards go, most all of them >> >have >> >> >near the same features. So how is rating a card based on it's fps >rating >> >> >hogwash? >> >> > >> >> >Sometimes, a feature is so good that it outweighs the performance >> >advantage >> >> >of another 3d card. For example, www.firingsquad.com rated the Voodoo >5 >> >> >higher than the Geforce2 because of the voodoo's higher visual >quality, >> >even >> >> >though it is slower than the GF2. In general though, fps ratings are >all >> >> >that matters when comparing 3d cards, because features are so similar. >> >> > >> >> >BTW, my 250MHz overclock gets me anywhere from 15-30 fps more in UT. >I >> >> >don't know if you are one of those ppl saying what's the point of more >> >than >> >> >30 fps anyway? So just think about this: >> >> > >> >> >do a 360 degree turn in 100ms, divide 360 by your frame rate, your >result >> >is >> >> >how often your view is updated during your turn >> >> > >> >> >end of rant :P >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >dwyatt >> >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >> >From: "Abe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:46 PM >> >> >Subject: RE: [[newbie] Athlon thunderbird & ka7-100] >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> yes but why? My machine never crashes and its on 24/7 with >extremely >> >> >heavy >> >> >> use. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have half-life/quake3/unreal tournament marathons over here where >I >> >play >> >> >on >> >> >> my computer while it hosts for 5-12 people. I do that twice or >three >> >> >times a >> >> >> week for 3-12 hours at a time. The machine just grins and keeps on >> >going. >> >> >> >> >> >> How much faster is it going to be at 800mhz or even 900mhz then it >is >> >now? >> >> >> And how unstable will it be? Bottom line is, I don't need to over >> >clock >> >> >it to >> >> >> feel like I got my moneys worth. If it ain't broke it works just >fins >> >and >> >> >> should be left alone. >> >> >> >> >> >> Don't forget that the jackasses on the online hardware review sites >> >like >> >> >> firingsquad and such not only tell you to overclock your chips but >that >> >> >the >> >> >> only thing that matters when you buy a video card is how high it >scores >> >in >> >> >> 3Dmark and how many fps it will put out in quake3. In other words. >> >> >Hogwash. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Abe >> >> >> >> >> >> >===== Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] ===== >> >> >> >On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, you wrote: >> >> >> >> no. maybe in a year and a half or so when this computer becomes >my >> >> >> experiment >> >> >> >> bed. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >u can always unclock your duron. i would overclock it if i was >> >> >> >u. with the motherboard u have i believe it is great for >overclocking. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >===== Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] ===== >> >> >> >> >On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >> the duron 600s are going for about 75 USD right now. The Asus >> >A7v >> >> >runs >> >> >> >> about >> >> >> >> >> 160. fairly affordable as far as brand new hardware goes. I >> >spent >> >> >> about >> >> >> >> >> three months researching and saving to get this machine built. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Abe >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >===== Original Message From "Austin L. Denyer" >> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >> >> ===== >> >> >> >> >> >> it actually takes about a minute. I've got a duron 600 >> >machine >> >> >with >> >> >> >> >> >256M of >> >> >> >> >> >> ram. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> ><envy> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> It takes my machine 23 hours and 19 minutes to process a >data >> >> >block >> >> >> >> >> >for seti >> >> >> >> >> >> but I only run seti in windows at the moment. Presumably >it >> >will >> >> >be >> >> >> >> >> >quite a >> >> >> >> >> >> bit faster in linux. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >You betcha! >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >Regards, >> >> >> >> >> >Ozz. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jesus saves, >> >> >> >> >> Allah forgives, >> >> >> >> >> Chthulu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >are u going to overclock your duron. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jesus saves, >> >> >> >> Allah forgives, >> >> >> >> Chthulu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. >> >> >> >> >> >> Jesus saves, >> >> >> Allah forgives, >> >> >> Chthulu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jesus saves, >> >> Allah forgives, >> >> Chthulu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. >> >> >> >> >> >> Jesus saves, >> Allah forgives, >> Chthulu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. >> >> Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Chthulu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
