Well said Abe. couldn't have said it better.
--
Mark
"If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless,"
"Sharing is what makes them powerful."
Linus Torvalds
On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, abe wrote:
> Over here at my house Linux IS, right now, a better alternative to
> windows or Mac. I'm a full time student and I work part time. I cannot
> afford to buy programs for windows and I surely cannot afford a Mac that
> would perform on par with my PC (G4). I do everything with linux. I
> write papers for school, do my taxes, write letters, email, chat, rip &
> encode MP3's * .ogg's, Create images with the GIMP, play Quake3, UT and
> other games. Come on man what more do you want?
>
> I am not a programmer or even a CIS student. I'm just a guy who like to
> play games, write email, etc and cannot afford to spend thousands of
> dollars on software.
>
> Honestly I am very tired of hearing these arguments. Mandrakes
> distribution has done nothing but get better for the past year. Here's
> what I mean by "better"
>
> 1. Massive choices in terms of software available on the disks. I like
> choices. I like choices a little too much probably. I also like not
> having to download every single extra thing I want one at a time.
> 2. Installation process is smoother. More devices are recognized and
> configured during the install process.
> 3. Stability stability stability need I say more?
> 4. Mandrake has become a very good distribution for gaming. That makes
> me very happy. Now if only Valve would let Loki port Half-Life &
> Counter-Strike!
> 5. GUI's. I use windowmaker so these "KDE!" "GNOME!" arguments look a
> little silly to me ;-) Windowmaker is better then both of them put
> together. Enough baiting though ;-) KDE2 is great. It's fast, smooth,
> stylish and comfortable. Gnome is very nice too. I have put complete
> linux newbies down in front of BOTH of theose GUI's and had them doing
> what they need to do after just a few minutes of explanation.
> 6. support for new devices. I was lucky enough to be able to buy a
> brand new computer a few months ago. Mandrake went on it without a
> hitch. USB mouse, current generation processor, brand new chipset, etc.
>
> OK, have you ever been involved in an art project? One that involved
> more then about 5 people? Infighting is perfectly normal in those
> circumstances. Linux development is NOT primarily a commercial
> endevour. It is a bunch of individuals doing what they do for their own
> reasons. Some of them are motivated by commercial concerns some are
> not. It is good that there is so much conflict over these opposing
> viewpoints. It makes the overall area of what linux can do/be broader.
> This is so much better then a top down corporate approach. Has
> microsoft ever asked you what you thoguht about their products and
> encouraged you to write a nice long email and mail it to mr. example
> man? I think not. Dennis and civilme have done that three or four
> times in the past six months!
>
> Mandrake, keep on keeping on. You listen to your users so much it blows
> my mind. You host great forums. The overall tone of your community is
> wonderful. The only mailing list I've ever been on that came close to
> the friendliness and professionalism of your lists was a debian list.
> Thank you.
>
> ok, I'm done now.
>
>
> Abe
>
>
> Mark Johnson wrote:
> >
> > My impression is that the Linux community in general cannot decide whether
> > linux should be seen as a viable desktop alternative to Windows and MAC, or
> > a viable backend alternative to Solaris, or simply as a hobbyist OS. (To me
> > the former is very debatable, the laters are more realistic.)
> >
> > I think that linux will never be a viable desktop for the masses until
> > productivity software is as common as it is for Windows (but then, i guess,
> > linux programmers would have to contend with the "dumb windows user"
> > mentality). I know that a couple of months ago the Linux Journal had a
> > multi-media issue that showed how linux could be used for generating music
> > and movies, and while interesting, it's not even comparable to the
> > multimedia power of the MAC and BeOS. (I can't open any application without
> > XMMS "coughing" on me....)
> >
> > To me it seems that despite all linux advances it is still _just_ an
> > inexpensive internet sever (web, mail, news, etc..), and a hobbyist OS for
> > developers. I think a lot of the reason why is the elitism that Linux folks
> > have and distain for the "dumb windows user." What's needed is a real
> > paradigm shift within the community. Yeah, we have token companies like
> > Gnome and Eazel that genuinely care and are compassionate about the computer
> > food-chain, but this isn't enough. (What's up with this in-fighting between
> > KDE and Gnome?)
> >
> > Then again, maybe the fate of linux is never to become a computer for the
> > common user, but rather a development environment for programmers and web
> > developers. We seem very divided on this issue.
> >
> > One last thing, I'm not complaining really, it just that I think there are
> > different priorities that drive linux compared to the other OSs.
> > Consequently, there are opportunity costs and trade-offs. The thing that
> > really bothers me is the elitism.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 9:35 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [newbie] Mandrakesoft CEO defends Linux
> >
> > using the expert mode on the install, my package install was 347.2mb.
> > That includes KDE2 with Koffice the network stuuf. Blackbox. Abiword and
> > all the other stuff that is needed.
> > After adding a bunch of updated and stuff from the unsupported dir it
> > whent up to 422.7 mb.
> >
> > Now mandrake make it so easy to add/remove packages that when I need to
> > compile a program from source, I install those packages then and remove
> > them when I am finshed.
> >
> > Mark Hillary
> > Registered Linux User 200755
> >
> > eryl wrote:
> >
> > > john rigby wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> The 99.99% of people out in the Cyberbog that Linux NEEDS to
> > >> reach/convert to save us all from Bill, do not need now, in the
> > >> future, ever, ANY Development Tools.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I agree. That's been one of the problems I have with linux. When I
> > > hand a linux disk to one of my Windows using friends to try, I tell them
> > > that the minimum workstation GUI install will take about 1.5 gigabytes.
> > > Everyone gives me the "Huh". Why? Because Windoze 98, with office and
> > > a bunch of other programs takes about 600 meg. The distros need
> > > something like a "Minimal GUI Install" that includes KDE office, One
> > > text editor, one file manager, etc. Everything should be available, but
> > > face it--for these newbies it's not necessary. Once they find out that
> > > they really like using linux, then they have room to experiment. My Mom
> > > does not need 5 different terminals or 6 window managers, and she will
> > > never have any use for developmental tools.
>
