Ron Bouwhuis wrote: > What the hell is a five-finger discount? > > I *HOPE* you mean you go to Borders, buy a coffee > and > maybe a pastry, sit down in one of those lovely > corner > sofas and read the excellent Linux references you > mention (careful not to get sticky fingers on the > pages). You then write notes to yourself on a pad > and > put the book back on the shelf when you're done. > Regards, > Ron. Charles Punch wrote: > Isaac Curtis wrote: > >>Charles Punch wrote: >> >>>Isaac Curtis wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Bryan Tyson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>On Wednesday 29 August 2001 21:32, Ron wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Isaac, >>>>>> >>>>>>My gast has been well and truly flabbered... >>>>>> >>>>>>Ron. >>>>>>(Feeling a little sadder after reading your post). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Ron's right. This guy is making a mockery of both the Linux community >>>>>and "social consciousness." >>>>> >>>>>*************************************************** >>>>>Powered by SuSE Linux 7.2 Professional >>>>>KDE 2.1.2 KMail 1.2 >>>>> >>>>>Bryan S. Tyson >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>*************************************************** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>For the thousandth time... I gave a lot more options, people are just >>>>obsessing about stealing. I provided a bunch of more acceptable ways to >>>>do this, and Paul added one more. I still have to admit I find it sort >>>>of silly that people burn cd's, copy mp3's, and reuse software intended >>>>for one computer yet would lecture someone for stealing a book. A $40 >>>>book is three cd's, which is about 40 songs. So take your mp3 >>>>collection and divide it by forty to figure the equivalent of how many >>>>books you've stolen. I haven't stolen many books. >>>> >>>> - Isaac >>>> >>>> >>>There are a few basic flaws in your reasoning that I must comment on. >>>(1.)There is no way for you to know that the people that have expressed >>>their belief that stealing is wrong are doing any of the things you've >>>mentioned above. (2.)I am a Christian, but I know that the concept of >>>Karmic law is a little more than lightning striking people who >>>transgress moral laws. (3.) Quantity has nothing to do with whether >>>something is wrong or not. If stealing a million books is wrong, then >>>stealing one is wrong as well.I will ask once more, do you think that >>>two (or more) wrongs make a right. What surprises me about seeing this >>>kind of post on this list, is not a lack of morals, but a lack of >>>logical progression in the arguments. All of the arguments in favor of >>>stealing are based on non-sequitur. One would think that someone who can >>>make logical progressions to do computer work, would be able to apply >>>those priciples to other areas. To those who complained about posting >>>replies to this thread on the list, I do this because some of the >>>replies I read were in agreement at least partially about stealing and >>>it is not only my moral obligation, but my logical obligation to address >>>this issue. If it were only a moral obligation (without reason), I would >>>concede and post off list. It is in the interest of clear communication >>>that I post this. If you prove to me that clear communication is >>>irrelevant to this list, I will apologize. >>> >>>ShalomOut >>> Chal >>>Elder PCUSA >>>Registered Linux user # 217118 >>> >>> >>Chal >> >>I hear what you're saying about the logical arguments, but I'm also put >>in this really awkward place where I'm being made to defend the idea of >>stealing. This is what has driven this topic so far off topic that it >>seems inappropriate. I'm really drained because in attacking the >>concept of stealing everyone is allowed to ignore everything I was >>really saying. In demanding a logical defense of stealing you refuse to >>debate the other ideas that were put forward. I feel like it's at the >>point that if I keep defending myself I'm just making it worse, so I'm >>going to chill. I also want to agree very strongly with you that >>discussions, whatever level they descend to, are always more healthy to >>have openly on the list. There's nothing wrong with also talking >>privately on the side, but I really enjoy developing an understanding of >>people through open candid discussions, whether we're talking about the >>best window manager or the most appropriate way of acquiring books. >> >>Peace, >>Isaac >> >> > The reason I only addressed the part about stealing, is that I agree > with everything else you said. At least the parts I understood. I am not > familiar with Borders, so the specifics were lost on me. I don't have > any innovative ideas on these things, but I keep an open mind. You have > given me another perspective to consider. I almost hesitated to post my > comments about stealing, because I could see that you were getting > attacked on (strictly) moral grounds. All of my moral objections had a > basis in reason. I wanted you to see that there is an objection to > stealing based on logic, which I didn't see in any of the other posts. > Some of the others did give some good alternatives that I wouldn't have > thought of, but none gave a reason *why* you should pursue an > alternative other than that they thought that stealing was wrong. It > seemed to me that they were all begging the question, by saying that > stealing is wrong, because stealing is wrong. I do realize there is more > to your position than just advocating theft. > My comments about communicating clearly were not directed at you, but > at everyone who complains or diagrees without giving a reason. I > understood you perfectly. I wish that more people could express > themselves as well as you did. I also appreciate that you did not result > to calling names, insulting anyone or getting all caught up in > irrational emotion. I only disagreed with you on that one point. > > ShalomOut > Chal > Elder PCUSA > Registered Linux user # 217118 > First of all, thanks a lot-- I really appreciated that reply. I was really frustrated/unhappy not just with the list but with myself after this whole mess. I still sort of feel like Mandrake might not be the community I belong in. It seems dramatically less diverse (politically) than the other communities like Debian, Suse, etc. I really like Mandrake for the fact that it has the opportunity to be much more accessible to underprivileged people than any of the other distros im familiar with, it just seems that its usability has led to a rapid assimilation within corporate culture that totally ruins its potential as an OS for the masses. If anyone has thoughts, I'd be interested to hear them. I'm not about to jump ship right this minute or anything, just mulling things over in my head. I've put in a lot of time drumming up Mandrake. I plugged it for half an hour to a guy just last night at Borders, actually. And no, I wasn't there to steal anything, I just did some skimming of "Learning Debian GNU/Linux" and sparked up a conversation with the others at the Linux bookshelf. (I have to admit, however, that I partook of neither coffee nor pastry, and that I found the fire-retardant couches less comfortable than the wooden chairs and tables.) Hoping this email finds everyone calmer and more pleasant, Isaac "This ain't no cartoon / No one slips on bananas / You really think that that car killed Diana?" - Michael Franti of Spearhead, "Oh My God"
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
