I was the one who used Js to demonstrate testing for objects, it was just as an example of ways around the problem, I wasn't stating that it was the be all and end all, just an example of JS that works accross the board.. I didn't mention css at all...
So if I am to understand this, you think its correct to deny access to all versions of say Opera, regardless of version? I used to use browser detection for everything and detection of version as well, it was two hard to keep everything up to date because browsers change all the time... and new ones keep popping up.. M$ weren't testing for specific browsers to allow use of different css or JS, they were testing for non Ie browsers to block out... thats all I am saying on the subject, its been covered enough,, I have been in the web dev area amonst others for about 5 or so years, so you both have me beat. :-) rgds Frank -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2001 2:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] MSN.com and MS in general. "Michael D. Viron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] u> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [newbie] MSN.com and MS in general. newbie-owner@linux-ma ndrake.com 10/30/01 01:45 PM Please respond to newbie >I might be wrong -- not saying ms was right to block browsers -- but I >thought that ms was concerned about css, not javascript. You're approach >addresses javascript, not css. I'm sure you know this, but I'll say it just >to make my point clear: For css, you have to check for browser type, not >for javascript objects. While css and javascript can be combined they are >two seperate things, and if you think that your page won't *display* >properly due to css issues, then you should check for browser type. That's >what I do. Oftentimes you need a css sheet for netscape and another css >sheet for internet explorer. (I'm new to linux, so not sure if I'll need >yet another for unix systems.) > #Actually, I have never had to have 'separate' stylesheets for the different #browsers. I take the time to develop a template that will work properly in #all browsers (or at the very least, Netscape 4.7x, Netscape 6.x, Mozilla #.9x, and Opera on a variety of platforms). For other browsers, I make sure #that my website will 'degrade gracefully' (ie, making sure that the website #is actually readable in text based browsers (such as lynx, links) and #earlier versions of netscape and IE). #Granted, that such attention makes a prototype take longer to develop. The #last one I did that was cross - browser / cross - os took me about 4-5 #months to design, develop, and perfect. However, using php or jsp or for #that matter cfm, I can have a single template -- meaning that all I have to #do, is include the template with each page, and therefore have content / #layout / style independence (ie, the styles are all in a stylesheet, layout #is handled in a template file, and content is added to another file (where #the 'template' is included). After that, I can add content to my hearts #content, or for that matter, change out the template for a new design #within a matter of minutes. #By the way, for those who are wondering, I've been dealing with web design #/ development for over 6 years now. #Michael #-- #Michael Viron #Registered Linux User #81978 #Senior Systems & Administration Consultant #Web Spinners, University of West Florida #Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? #Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Michael, You didn't address my point. I wasn't saying whether one should use multiple stylesheets. I agree, it's best to make a single stylesheet that works in all browsers or degrades gracefully. But, again, that wasn't my point. It was said on this board, maybe by you I can't remember, that microsoft had no reason to check for browser type, but should instead check for the existence of objects? I disagreed: that was my point -- according to microsoft's statments, they indeed should have been checking for browser type. Whoever said that they should have been checking for objects was just wrong. If microsoft was concerned about how their page would be displayed, I figured it was because of stylesheet issues, either partially or wholly. So checking for browser types would indeed be a good way of determining whether a certain *browser* would display the pages properly. Of course, we all know what they were doing was BS, but I'm not talking about whether it was a valid thing to do. I was just commenting on something said on this board. I too, by the way, have been dealing with web development for about 6 years :). mitch
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