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Join our email list at http://emperors-clothes.com/f.htm Receive articles from Emperor's Clothes Website www.tenc.net * [Emperor's Clothes] ======================================= Jared Israel Interviewed On BBC About Milosevic 'Trial' Page set up by John Flaherty [Posted 29 August 2002] ======================================= The BBC's Bill Hayton interviewed Jared Israel on August 23rd. Excerpts from the interview were used in a BBC feature story which can be read at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/2220997.stm The feature story is balanced for the most part. But it leaves out much of the interview. To hear the whole original interview on RealPlayer audio, go to http://emperor.vwh.net/Audio/bbc823.rm Below Is Full Tanscript of BBC Interview BBC - 23 August 2002 BILL HAYTON: Can I credit you as from the International Committee? JARED ISRAEL: I'm the vice-chairman of the international committee. One of the vice-chairmen. BILL HAYTON: Right JARED ISRAEL: And I edit the website - www.icdsm.org BILL HAYTON: Who do you think's winning in the courtroom? JARED ISRAEL: Well, I think everybody thinks Milosevic is winning. The question is whether it's a rigged battle. That is, if the fix is in, in a prizefight, it doesn't really, then, mean that because one person is winning that he will necessarily win, right? Because the judges have already decided. And the judge in this case is manifestly on the prosecution side. That was very clear on the 26th, on the last day's testimony when Mr. Markovic was asked by Mr. Milosevic, "Is it true that you were tortured?" And he said, "Yes." And judge May said this doesn't have any relevance to the evidence, which this witness has given here, none at all. Whether he was tortured. Now that's a trial-stopping issue. In other words, it's our position that, since their main prosecution witness - because he's not in the KLA and he's not Paddy Ashdown, that is an operative of the British special forces and the special representative of the British government 10 times going to Yugoslavia, and he's not one of the leaders of the Kosovo verification mission, and he's not in the CIA and he's not therefore William Walker, but he was actually the leader of the Serbian security police - was brought in to testify and said he was tortured to give false evidence...that's what he said.... BILL HAYTON: ....right JARED ISRAEL: Now, how can you continue the trial then? And they continued. So the trial is now a dead thing walking. That is our position. BILL HAYTON: I mean...you accept that war crimes were committed in Kosovo... JARED ISRAEL: Yeah, by NATO and the KLA on a grand scale BILL HAYTON: But you're confident there were no war crimes committed at all by any Yugoslav security forces in Kosovo? JARED ISRAEL: I'm not, nobody in the world could ever make a statement like that about any security force in any war. And as a matter of fact one of the points that Milosevic and Rade Markovic, who was the leader of that force and who is the prosecution witness, made is that several hundred people in the army and I assume in the security forces were prosecuted by the Yugoslav government for committing atrocities. Now. Does the fact that they prosecuted members of the security forces and the army for committing atrocities mean that there were no atrocities? No, it means there were. But, since that happens in every war, the crucial question is whether an army prosecutes those people who do such things. And I would hold that against the record of Britain in the Falklands [Islands]; I would hold it against the record of Britain and the US in Afghanistan. Who's being prosecuted for atrocities in Afghanistan? What pilots in the US, Britain or Germany were prosecuted for bombing civilians during the attack on Yugoslavia? Why haven't Blair and Clinton been prosecuted for launching an aggressive war? But Yugoslav soldiers and members of the security forces, according to Rade Markovic, were prosecuted. So, yes, of course, atrocities occur, but that is the opposite of an official policy of having them, isn't it? When you prosecute the people who do it, you discourage it. BILL HAYTON: The prosecution is now trying to prove that the orders to commit those atrocities, such as they were, came from the top JARED ISRAEL: But that would be remarkable, wouldn't it? To order people to commit atrocities and then prosecute several hundred people who did? As far as I know, one person was prosecuted in the Vietnam War for committing atrocities. Two and a half million people were killed, atrociously. BILL HAYTON: Ok, but... JARED ISRAEL: Now in the case of Kosovo, when the US attacked the country, the only people who have been prosecuted for committing atrocities, were prosecuted by Yugoslavia. Where has the US prosecuted anyone? BILL HAYTON: Ok. So, do you think the prosecution has or has so far - looking at the trial - proved a link between Milosevic and the action of the troops on the ground ... JARED ISRAEL: First of all, the actions of the troops on the ground, from everything that has come out in the testimony, have been remarkable and a model of how you combat terrorism without flattening the country as the US has been doing in Afghanistan - and mark you *not* it's own country - whereas this Kosovo *is* part of Serbia - that's point one. So, secondly, of course he's connected with the [action of the troops on the ground] - he was the head of the country - that doesn't mean that he oversaw every action. But [in] setting general policy, the president of the country is the commander and chief; in Yugoslavia, [he] is the commander and chief of the armed forces. Milosevic has not denied in fact he's affirmed that he had a large role in setting policy, he and the people who are also in the government with him. And one of the policies he set was to prosecute people who committed atrocities. Now, we have a book on the website I edit which is emperor's clothes at www.tenc.net; we have a book written by two Yugoslav army generals, including Yugoslav army orders which are very strict in calling for the immediate arrest of any soldier who violates the strict - the "treasuring" - and they use the word, "sacred" - of prisoners and the treasuring of civilians. That's the opposite of an official policy of persecuting and atrocities. So, in answer to your question, yes there is a connection between Milosevic and the policies of his government, which includes the army. ---NOTE: The book, "The Other Side of the Story," can be read at http://emperors-clothes.com/book/book1.htm As for the specific command structure, no, he was not involved in day-to- day specific decisions about specific people; that's absurd. So, I'm saying, number 1, what they're saying happened, didn't happen. There was not an official policy of atrocities. There was an official policy of opposing them. He was responsible, in part, for that policy. Therefore he's a hero. That's what they've shown so far. Their witness, their prosecution witness, whom they tortured to get him to say Milosevic was guilty, came in and said this. And said he was tortured. And Judge May said that's irrelevant. You know what Gandhi said about Western Civilization? He said it would be a good idea. BILL HAYTON: Ok. Thank you very much. JARED ISRAEL: Thank you. 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