Just following this up: Fluent NHibernate has now been transferred to the 
NHibernate organisation. Thanks Alexander! This is a great outcome, 
probably the best I could've hoped for. Thanks everyone.

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 4:47:30 AM UTC+10 Gunnar Liljas wrote:

> Event-stream's path? Did I miss something?
>
> Best regards
> Gunnar
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 1:30 AM Alexander Zaytsev <haz...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> I'm happy to take ownership over FluentNHibernate. I'm not going to 
>> retire from contributing to NHibernate in the near future, so you can count 
>> on me to take ownership over Github and NuGet assets. I was kicking 
>> NHibernate around for about 9 years now. 
>>
>> I have some ideas where the Fluent NHibernate could move (definitely not 
>> on the event-stream's path), but the hard-forking was a show stopper. I've 
>> had a few not so pleasant experiences with hard forking so would like to 
>> avoid it if possible.
>>
>> So, to way forward please add following NuGet organization as an owner: 
>> https://www.nuget.org/profiles/nhibernate
>> And transfer the repository to following GitHub organization: 
>> https://github.com/nhibernate/
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Alexander
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 10:59 PM James Gregory <ja...@jagregory.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Danilo,
>>>
>>> If you think there is a community of contributors just ready to get 
>>> going, great!
>>>
>>> The GitHub repository and the NuGet package are a pair. I will hand over 
>>> both of them to the NHibernate organisation. But to be clear, I won’t hand 
>>> over just the NuGet package on its own. Please let me know who from 
>>> NHibernate I should speak to to get this started.
>>>
>>> If the NHibernate organisation does not want to take ownership of the 
>>> GitHub repository, then I won’t be changing ownership of the NuGet package 
>>> either. In that case, I suggest you hard fork Fluent NHibernate, form your 
>>> community of contributors and publish a new open source project (“New 
>>> Fluent NHibernate”) with its own repository and NuGet package. Once you’ve 
>>> done that, I will officially declare my packages and repositories archived 
>>> and forward any users to your new package.
>>>
>>> I know this sounds painful and that I'm being obstinate, but there have 
>>> been many instances in recent years of naive package maintainers (me in 
>>> this scenario) handing over ownership of abandoned open-source projects 
>>> only to have the new maintainers use the existing install-base as an attack 
>>> vector. For example, event-stream 
>>> <https://snyk.io/blog/malicious-code-found-in-npm-package-event-stream/> 
>>> was exactly like this. So I want to either move everything to the official 
>>> organisation where our users can trust it's being handled responsibly, or 
>>> declare the project done and refer people to a successor.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, I'm sure you're all very trust worthy. But I don't 
>>> know you. And the responsibility is on me if I hand this over to someone 
>>> who abuses that privilege.
>>>
>>> So for actions:
>>>
>>> 1. I need someone from the NHibernate organisation to declare that they 
>>> will (or won't) take ownership of the GitHub repository and the NuGet 
>>> package. I'm sorry, I don't know who that is now so you'll have to make it 
>>> clear to me.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:44:12 PM UTC+10 bredinh...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> First of all thanks for all the work done so far, it was amazing.
>>>>
>>>> I have been trying to help fluentnhibernate for some time now and I 
>>>> raised this question because I have many business friends who ask me about 
>>>> it.
>>>> At the company I work for, we have used nhibernate and fluentnhibernate 
>>>> for more than 5 years, in addition to meeting several other companies that 
>>>> use them.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the option for we officially end-of-life Fluent 
>>>> NHibernate, is something very sad and it will let anyone to fork 
>>>> fluentnhibernate and continue it as an unofficial project e become a mess, 
>>>> because there are projects that depend on it. As I previously raised the 
>>>> community on top of this project is quite interest in contribute!
>>>>
>>>> I believe the best option would be for NHibernate to become the "owner" 
>>>> of the package(maybe adding a nhibernate/fluent-nhibernate repository?) 
>>>> for 
>>>> the idea of continuity of the package over a long period, to add and 
>>>> remove 
>>>> people to help maintain Fluent NHibernate.
>>>>
>>>> I saw that Frédéric Delaporte is also interested in help, at least in 
>>>> the beginning with this transition.
>>>>
>>>> As a contributor and active maintainer on github projects like 
>>>> https://github.com/ZeusAutomacao/DFe.NET , i have time available and i 
>>>> can contribute whatever is necessary to maintain the project.
>>>> Em segunda-feira, 14 de setembro de 2020 às 06:04:55 UTC-3, 
>>>> thebitt...@gmail.com escreveu:
>>>>
>>>>> James has a point.
>>>>> In my experience - one person can do all that (theoretically), but 
>>>>> it's probably too much to ask if he or she has a full-time job.
>>>>>
>>>>> понедельник, 14 сентября 2020 г. в 11:38:25 UTC+3, James Gregory: 
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James Gregory here, original creator of Fluent NHibernate and I 
>>>>>> suppose official abandoner too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for raising this question. I have no objection to transferring 
>>>>>> ownership to NHibernate. In fact, I much prefer transferring it to the 
>>>>>> NH 
>>>>>> organisation than transferring it to an individual. But just for 
>>>>>> clarity, 
>>>>>> who are we proposing would maintain the codebase? There’s been nothing 
>>>>>> stopping anyone from reaching out to me so far, it’s not like I’ve been 
>>>>>> refusing help (don’t confuse the occasional drive-by PRs for offers of 
>>>>>> help). Who's going to be reviewing PRs, cutting new releases, fixing the 
>>>>>> issues that come up with new NH versions? etc...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Historically, we’ve had a very difficult time recruiting people to 
>>>>>> help maintain Fluent NHibernate. It’s abandonment is because there’s 
>>>>>> been 
>>>>>> literally 3 people interested in long-term maintenance over its lifetime 
>>>>>> (10+ years now), and whilst we have occasionally received Pull Requests 
>>>>>> they’ve never converted into active maintainers. So I’m skeptical that 
>>>>>> simply moving who owns the package is suddenly going to revitalise the 
>>>>>> project without a plan in place for someone to take ownership and steer 
>>>>>> the 
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is anyone here proposing to take maintenance responsibilities? If so, 
>>>>>> brilliant! If not, I don't see much point in transferring an abandoned 
>>>>>> repo 
>>>>>> to a different place to remain abandoned, so another option is we 
>>>>>> officially end-of-life Fluent NHibernate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:01:08 PM UTC+10 Frédéric Delaporte 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About ownership of the package, I have sent the following message to 
>>>>>>> its current owners. It seems to me as a good way to go. (If other 
>>>>>>> members 
>>>>>>> of the NHibernate organization disagree, we will just have to reject 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> ownership.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am one of the admin of the NHibernate repository. We recently 
>>>>>>> received a request for receiving a fork of FluentNHibernate, due to its 
>>>>>>> current repository seeming abandoned.
>>>>>>> There is an opened issue in its repository (
>>>>>>> https://github.com/FluentNHibernate/fluent-nhibernate/issues/459), 
>>>>>>> and a discussion on the matter on NHibernate development list (
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/nhibernate-development/c/lhNOJuUatWA/m/BRjf7j2-BAAJ
>>>>>>> ).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In case you, current owners, are no more available for maintaining 
>>>>>>> this project, could would still spare some time to manage handing it 
>>>>>>> over 
>>>>>>> to some active contributors?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A simple and quick step could be adding the NHibernate organization 
>>>>>>> on NuGet (https://www.nuget.org/profiles/nhibernate) as owner of 
>>>>>>> this package, which would allow us to give package update right to 
>>>>>>> other 
>>>>>>> contributors. 
>>>>>>> (It does not mean the NHibernate organization will start maintaining 
>>>>>>> this package, we will most probably delegate this to willing 
>>>>>>> contributors 
>>>>>>> of FluentNHibernate. And this is currently an initiative of mine, which 
>>>>>>> may 
>>>>>>> be refused on our side. But there is no harm on your side to already 
>>>>>>> send 
>>>>>>> us a request for taking ownership of the FluentNHibernate package on 
>>>>>>> NuGet: 
>>>>>>> the way it works, the organization has to accept it, so if other 
>>>>>>> members 
>>>>>>> disagrees, we will be able to cancel it.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> May you also state if forking the repository is your preferred 
>>>>>>> option, rather than giving required rights to would be contributors or 
>>>>>>> getting active again?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for your attention,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frédéric
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le samedi 12 septembre 2020 à 22:32:25 UTC+2, Gunnar Liljas a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree that it would be a good idea. I prefer FNH over other 
>>>>>>>> options 
>>>>>>>> any day, but the diminished support is troubling. Perhaps making it 
>>>>>>>> "officially NHibernate" can be a bit confusing, since there are 
>>>>>>>> "competitors" inside NHibernate, but anything that keeps it alive 
>>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>>> now is good. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess the most important thing is to get ownership and solve the 
>>>>>>>> low 
>>>>>>>> hanging fruits. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /G 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Frédéric Delaporte 
>>>>>>>> <frederic...@free.fr> wrote: 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > Adding a nhibernate/fluent-nhibernate repository seems to me a 
>>>>>>>> good option, as long as you are ready to handle it, and since 
>>>>>>>> contributors 
>>>>>>>> would be many, also as long as you are ready to share 
>>>>>>>> merging/releasing 
>>>>>>>> access with people most worthy of it. 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > May you have a way to attract the attention of such potential 
>>>>>>>> would-be contributors here, to let them share their thoughts? 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > Is there also any opened issue on the current Fluent-Nhibernate 
>>>>>>>> repo, asking the owner to take action for giving available 
>>>>>>>> contributors the 
>>>>>>>> required rights for replacing current owners? 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > About the NuGet package, you may be able to reclaim it, as NuGet 
>>>>>>>> has a procedure for abandoned packages, which I have already used 
>>>>>>>> successfully. It is quite lengthy, but well worth it, especially for a 
>>>>>>>> popular package. They call it dispute resolution, but this does also 
>>>>>>>> apply 
>>>>>>>> for abandoned packages. 
>>>>>>>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/nuget/nuget-org/policies/dispute-resolution
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> > If current owners of the package do not answer at all, and you 
>>>>>>>> can explain why you should get ownership of it, it should work. Of 
>>>>>>>> course 
>>>>>>>> you will have more weight in reclaiming it if you already have an 
>>>>>>>> active 
>>>>>>>> fork of the project. 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > Le samedi 12 septembre 2020 à 21:24:07 UTC+2, 
>>>>>>>> bredinh...@gmail.com a écrit : 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> From issue: 
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/nhibernate/nhibernate-core/issues/2531 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> I believe that many nhibernate developers know about 
>>>>>>>> FluentNhibernate at least in some project. 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> To understand the size of fluent-nhibernate adopters, they have 
>>>>>>>> 80% of the stars in the nhibernate github. 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> I use it in several of my projects, but lately, the project is 
>>>>>>>> dying, due to the lack of support from the creators of the project. 
>>>>>>>> >> - lack of reviewers with merge right 
>>>>>>>> >> - lack of reviewers with ability to release 
>>>>>>>> >> - no nugget access (need to create a new one as a lot of forks 
>>>>>>>> are doing) 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> We have a lot of problems using the latest versions of 
>>>>>>>> nhibernate due to lack of maintenance. 
>>>>>>>> >> Here are some sample issues and pullrequests. 
>>>>>>>> >> FluentNHibernate/fluent-nhibernate#430 
>>>>>>>> >> FluentNHibernate/fluent-nhibernate#429 
>>>>>>>> >> FluentNHibernate/fluent-nhibernate#456 
>>>>>>>> >> FluentNHibernate/fluent-nhibernate#432 
>>>>>>>> >> FluentNHibernate/fluent-nhibernate#453 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> This creates a very big problem with the community and a huge 
>>>>>>>> hole in the continued use of new versions of nhibernate, since 
>>>>>>>> fluent-nhibernate is no longer updated (issues of the problems above) 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> Interesting to understand that the contributors are not missing, 
>>>>>>>> many pull requests raised are not even viewed. 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> The idea is forking fluent-nhibernate, eventually in the 
>>>>>>>> nhibernate repository (not inside nhibernate-core). To continue to 
>>>>>>>> have the 
>>>>>>>> necessary support for at least nhibernate version updates. 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> I'm sure the community would cooperate a lot and be very happy 
>>>>>>>> about it. 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> > -- 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > --- 
>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
>>>>>>>> Google Groups "nhibernate-development" group. 
>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>>>>>>> send an email to nhibernate-develo...@googlegroups.com. 
>>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nhibernate-development/59eb4946-db8f-4b32-ab89-ef4dca138d08n%40googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "nhibernate-development" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to nhibernate-develo...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nhibernate-development/0930a7b9-1e7e-413a-afde-d5249eb65f3an%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nhibernate-development/0930a7b9-1e7e-413a-afde-d5249eb65f3an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>>
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "nhibernate-development" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to nhibernate-develo...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nhibernate-development/CAMKuk26OTc%2BM8uWRd_Eg3URpujQLz0zTn9-P64fnZsW4iHp83A%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nhibernate-development/CAMKuk26OTc%2BM8uWRd_Eg3URpujQLz0zTn9-P64fnZsW4iHp83A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

-- 

--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"nhibernate-development" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to nhibernate-development+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nhibernate-development/5ed0f8de-4e46-4479-8aab-2d42367fc48an%40googlegroups.com.

Reply via email to