right, I see your point. However I don't think with current design you can do much about it, so assuming most people would be using just NHibernate and not other depending packages I would optimize for that scenario.
Krzysztof On Mar 13, 11:16 pm, Mohamed Meligy <[email protected]> wrote: > Krzysztof, > > Maybe my point for this was not obvious. I meant it is a problem for package > creators too: > > 1- if they create packages dependent on specific proxy NH package, using > multiple packages that depend on different NH+proxy packages can be > conflicting > 2- If they depend on the base NH package, they will need to communicate to > the users somehow that they need to get an NH+proxy package too, which > breaks the idea of dependency packages completely > > For users, they'll be confused when: > > 1- They install the main package without noticing the description and things > don't go as expected > 2- When they install other dependent library that depends on base NH package > and things don't go as expected (and find hard time figuring out why) > 3- When they install two or more dependent libraries say one uses NH-Castle > and another uses NH-LinFu and something goes crazy > > So, I think it's painful for users mainly, either directly, or indirectly... > > *Mohamed Meligy > *Readify | Senior Developer > > M:+61 451 835006 | W: readify.net > [image: Description: Description: Description: Description: > rss_16]<http://gurustop.net> > [image: Description: Description: Description: Description: > cid:[email protected]] > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/meligy> [image: > Description: Description: Description: Description: > cid:[email protected]] <http://twitter.com/meligy> > <http://www.greatplacetowork.com.au/best/best-companies-australia.php><http://www.readify.net/AboutUs/NewsItem.aspx?id=10> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:09 AM, xtoff <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mohamed, > > > Speaking bluntly from the perspective of NHibernate user - I couldn't > > care less. > > > And there's going to be much more NHibernate users than people > > authoring packages depending on NHibernate. So I can see your point > > with supporting different choices for package authors but still users > > should come first and they should be able to get up and running ASAP. > > So the default package should give them just that, and I guess > > NHibernate-choose-your-own-proxy package chould be provided in > > addition to that for usage by package authors. > > > Just me $0.02 > > > cheers. > > Krzysztof > > > On Mar 13, 10:55 pm, Mohamed Meligy <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Jose, > > > First, it's funny to see you introduce yourself. You sure don;t need to! > > > > Now to the point, I do agree to your opinion for one main reason, which I > > > explained in the post to some extent: > > > > The way NHibernate package works from now on will make it a bit confusing > > to > > > > > get other packages. For example, if you want to get FluentNHibernate / > > > > ConfORM, you will find that it explicitly depends on NHibernate > > package, but > > > > in the same time you are likely to need to install any of the other > > > > proxy-specific packages which is not set in the package dependencies. > > > > So, I don't think maintaining a version of each packages (NHibernate, and > > > Proxy) will be an issue. For example, if NHibernate.Castle is just > > dependent > > > on NHibenrate package and Castle.DynamicProxy package (if such exists), > > then > > > you get the updates a bit easily. > > > The real problem though that I see is that if you get NHibernate through > > > other library (be it ConfORM or FluentNHibernate or any of your own > > helpers, > > > Jose, or others), it will be hard to tell for users that they need to get > > a > > > proxy package. It's not obvious, and it is confusing. Especially with > > > the existence of other packages like "Castle Faciltities for NHibernate" > > (or > > > something like that). > > > > Form the perspective of package creator this raises the problem I listed > > > also in next paragraph: > > > > The creator of FluentNHibernate may decide to depend on a proxy specific > > > > > package instead, but this will be a problem if another > > NHibernate-dependent > > > > library may decide to depend on another proxy-specific package and it > > > > becomes a mess. So, I guess library creators will better not do that > > and > > > > we’ll need to live with the non-explicit dependency that is still > > likely > > > > required. > > > > So, yeah, the previous approach was pretty much painless compared to > > > current one. > > > > Thanks for raising this. > > > > Regards, > > > > *Mohamed Meligy > > > *Readify | Senior Developer > > > > M:+61 451 835006 | W: readify.net > > > [image: Description: Description: Description: Description: > > > rss_16]<http://gurustop.net> > > > [image: Description: Description: Description: Description: > > > cid:[email protected]] > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/meligy> [image: > > > Description: Description: Description: Description: > > > cid:[email protected]] <http://twitter.com/meligy> > > > <http://www.greatplacetowork.com.au/best/best-companies-australia.php>< > >http://www.readify.net/AboutUs/NewsItem.aspx?id=10> > > > > On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 11:25 PM, José F. Romaniello < > > [email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Mohamed, Fabio and others. > > > > > I want to detail some background of my person for the rest of the > > readers > > > > of this forum. I'm involved in the nhibernate project since three > > years. I > > > > wrote 23 articles of NHibernate in my blog and in nhforge blog, some of > > them > > > > are widely used as reference. I am one of the persons who most help in > > this > > > > forum (http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers/about) and in others > > like > > > > NHibernate Hispano. I've the placer to participate in the technical > > review > > > > of the last nhibernate's book "NHibernate Cookbook" and I'm doing the > > same > > > > in the new NHibernate's book for beginners. I've fixed few bugs but I > > am not > > > > commiter nor member of the dev team. I love NHibernate. > > > > > Having said that, I'll expose the problem; *NHibernate is wrong when it > > > > comes to the proxy factory.* If I need to read a guide to install > > *NHibernate > > > > through nuget, something is very wrong*. You are bringing the dlls hell > > > > back to nuget. You are the responsible for the new apocalypse; the > > nuget > > > > hell. Are you willing to maintain packages like > > > > "NHibernate3.1.Castle2.6.ByteCode"? What should i do with this package > > in > > > > the first place? If this is the way to work; frameworks like > > Rhino.Mocks or > > > > Moq should be doing the same? Imagine the conflicts between: > > > > NHibernate.Castle and Moq.Castle. > > > > > How do we solve this? I strongly believe that most of the users don't > > care > > > > about the ProxyFactory. As an advanced user of nhibernate i've created > > a > > > > custom proxyfactory once and I regret. My best advice, is to put back > > inside > > > > nhibernate one implementation of the ProxyFactory and > > ilmerge-internalize a > > > > version of; Castle, LinFu or Spring proxy generators. Pick whatever you > > want > > > > and what version you want. In other words; do the same thing most of > > the > > > > frameworks do internalize the reference and let an open door to someone > > who > > > > wants to play with proxies or want to use the non standard > > > > implementation. Yes, nhibernate.dll will be bigger but who cares about > > > > size?. > > > > > *Reduce the friction.* > > > > > Please, write your opinion in this thread. > > > > > 2011/3/13 Mohamed Meligy <[email protected]> > > > > >> Only today NHibernate 3.1 is available on NuGet. Thanks to Fabio Maulo > > for > > > >> updating it. > > > > >> I have written a detailed blog post that covers some of the important > > > >> details related to that (for example, why you should not install it > > directly > > > >> and how to install it then) > > > > >>http://bit.ly/h6WACe > > > > >> @Fabio and all > > > >> Please advise any corrections you may see required for the post. > > > > >> Regards, > > > > >> *Mohamed Meligy > > > >> *Readify | Senior Developer > > > > >> M:+61 451 835006 | W: readify.net > > > >> [image: Description: Description: Description: Description: rss_16]< > >http://gurustop.net> > > > >> [image: Description: Description: Description: Description: > > > >> cid:[email protected]] < > >http://www.linkedin.com/in/meligy> [image: > > > >> Description: Description: Description: Description: > > > >> cid:[email protected]] <http://twitter.com/meligy> > > > >> < > >http://www.greatplacetowork.com.au/best/best-companies-australia.php>< > >http://www.readify.net/AboutUs/NewsItem.aspx?id=10> > > > > >> -- > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > >> "nhusers" group. > > > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > >> [email protected]. > > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "nhusers" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]. > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "nhusers" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nhusers" group. 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