They won't :)

Oh well :)

It's better for things to work than for everyone to agree.

-Mikeal

On Dec 19, 2013, at 3:47PM, Alex Kocharin <[email protected]> wrote:

>  
> Well okay, just one silly argument. How will these people know that they're 
> doing the wrong thing if nothing will ever break? :)
>  
>  
> 20.12.2013, 03:42, "Mikeal Rogers" <[email protected]>:
>> First off, if someone version locks they are already doing the wrong thing. 
>> Saying "make my package ignore bugfix releases" is almost always the wrong 
>> thing. In this case it's better to keep their package working for them since 
>> they clearly don't know what they're doing.
>>  
>> If they **really** didn't want any changes coming in that they didn't know 
>> about then they had two other options that would still work: 1) check the 
>> module in to git if they are deploying at app or shrinkwrap publish if it's 
>> not something being deployed 2) stick the md5 in package json to ensure 
>> nobody can give them another tarball for the same version.
>>  
>> We have to deal with what people are doing in practice when they don't 
>> necessarily understand the best practice and it's especially important when 
>> you maintain a common dependency to do what you can to keep everyone who 
>> relies on you working even when they don't do things correctly.
>>  
>> -Mikeal
>> 
>> On Dec 19, 2013, at 3:12PM, Alex Kocharin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>  
>>> Suppose somebody made a conscious choice to rely on your package version 
>>> 1.2.3. If they wanted to receive updates, they would've specify ~1.2.3, and 
>>> receive your 1.2.4 with a bugfix. But they don't even though npm specify 
>>> "~" syntax by default. Why do you suggest to replace 1.2.3 (if it's broken 
>>> or something) with a different version dependent explicitly didn't want to 
>>> see installed?
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 20.12.2013, 03:03, "Mikeal Rogers" <[email protected]>:
>>>> In the real world it's just better to have your dependents not fail to 
>>>> install, you can't actually rely on the maintainers doing another publish 
>>>> after you break them. In the end, the less packages that fail to install 
>>>> from npm the better and whatever solution results in the least number of 
>>>> un-installable packages sitting in the registry is the one we should go 
>>>> with.
>>>>  
>>>> -Mikeal
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 19, 2013, at 2:59PM, Alex Kocharin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Why is it a bad thing?
>>>>>  
>>>>> If someone wants to receive your update, he'll specify a version range 
>>>>> and an update will be installed automatically.
>>>>>  
>>>>> If someone want to rely specifically on broken version and locked it, 
>>>>> they kinda asked for it.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Well yeah, unpublishing is bad except for very few cases where public 
>>>>> data is leaked. But when you do that, don't republish the same version 
>>>>> ever again. It'll mess up things. I like to see how npm v1.3.19 is 
>>>>> missing from registry for example.
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 20.12.2013, 02:27, "Mikeal Rogers" <[email protected]>:
>>>>>> That leaves all of the other packaged already published and relying on a 
>>>>>> specific version broken.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 19, 2013, at 11:46AM, Dean Landolt <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Even in that case it would still seem better to allow unpublish and 
>>>>>>> bump the version number, right?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Immutability (plus unpublish) would make the npm registery an even 
>>>>>>> better place.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Mikeal Rogers 
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> There have also been security issues where old packages were shipped 
>>>>>>> with sensitive information that needed to be ripped out.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 5:07PM, Forrest L Norvell <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I agree that packages should rarely be changed, but in practice if 
>>>>>>>> there's a major bug or the packaging gets totally botched (which has 
>>>>>>>> happened to me a few ties), it's good to have the ability to fix the 
>>>>>>>> problem in-place. I'm less enamored on the possibility of removing 
>>>>>>>> packages once they've been published. That seems like it's almost 
>>>>>>>> always a bad idea, and I would be in favor of altering the registry to 
>>>>>>>> disallow it.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> F
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Tim Caswell <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> If you want this level of static dependencies you can check in your 
>>>>>>>> deps into node_modules in your git tree or use git submodules in 
>>>>>>>> there.  Git does guarantee that the thing you point to can't be 
>>>>>>>> changed because the hash *is* the hash of the content.  If anything 
>>>>>>>> changes, the hash changes.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Brian Lalor <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:23 AM, Richard Marr <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'm working on an app where security is an issue, and among the 
>>>>>>>>> (many) things that I'm frothingly paranoid about is the possibility 
>>>>>>>>> of malicious (or more likely just untested) code somehow getting into 
>>>>>>>>> our app, even though we're using shrink-wrapped versions. It means 
>>>>>>>>> we'll have to be much more careful with the way we proxy the npm 
>>>>>>>>> registry. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I’d like to know this, as well.  One of the guarantees made by the 
>>>>>>>> Maven central repository is that artifacts (packages) can check in, 
>>>>>>>> but they can never check out.  I frankly don’t think NPM provides this 
>>>>>>>> type of assurance, but it should.  Otherwise the only way an 
>>>>>>>> organization can trust packages is to run their own repository.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Brian Lalor
>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>  
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