2007/9/27, Phil Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > This is why I said the engine is useless without an interface; it > couldn't load patches, it couldn't get any audio input or output; it > couldn't even be invoked because it has no notion of "command line > options" or anything like that.
from my point of view an engine always has the means to save or load it's data (and _core_ config) from a stream, when we are talking about engines as in database-engine, game-engine. and so it should be useful without a user interface (which is also the case in db- and gameengines). In Nova's case there are many applications where a user interface is not necessery for performance (in addition to tims examples: interactive installations). > My counter argument is that in fact the core doesn't care. All it knows > is that there are some objects connected together just as normal for an > audio patch and is totally oblivious to the fact that they have anything > to do with the GUI. so why then do you think it's necessary that the nova-language needs to implement gui-specific capabilities? maybe we're talking at cross purposes, but i do not see where in this argument you are supporting your own point... what one could do on the other hand, would be, to not consider something static like an XML file for GUI configuration but use Python itself... i actually do like the idea of domain specific languages written in general purpose languages (with a clean API and the correct/most-readable use of the languages idioms). > Regarding overhead, this is an area where I am not really experienced > enough to know yet. I can only assume the necessary code is either > already written or will be written soon since it's needed for things > like number boxes, and previously mentioned, and since numberboxes and > whatnot are pretty normal in operation, the overhead will be managable. but that is the main argument that tim has... with all the examples you listed in your last mail (vim, scons, ion, emacs) you really didn't make a case because you didn't compare the requirements of the runtime engine of these languages in the context of their use... these languages do not have audio real-time requirements in those applications... any added redirection between nova runtime environment and a gui (which, again, are not hardwired) would add unnecessary cost. I really appreciate your enthusiasm to make the coolest gui for nova, and i don't think that all dataflow users are a bunch of conservatives when it comes to their tools but all those decisions need a bit of thought and thought was invested in pd's and max's gui as well. As tim said it's interesting to see how other users think about this... Misch _______________________________________________ nova-dev mailing list [email protected] http://klingt.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nova-dev http://tim.klingt.org/nova
