I've been away and only just seen this exchange. I'm also completely
ignorant of this area. However.
I've a sort of memory of having seen somewhere pictures of two
different sorts of hurdygurdy next to each other or in the same
article. One looked like the familiar (French?) version, with a bowl
shaped body and a neck with the stops (is that the right term?) on it.
The other was box shaped with a flat top with the stops sticking out of
the top. It had a handle at the end, which turned in the same way, but
the works were entirely inside. The stops were more like plungers, a
bit like some old fashioned sort of cash reckoning machine. It may have
been played by sitting it on as table rather than holding it as in the
illustration. Anyway, I've a sort of additional recollection that it
might have been called something like a 'symphony' or 'symphonium'.
Does this sound familiar to anyone else who knows more about this field
of expertise?
It isn't entirely out of pipe territory. As the hurdygurdy has drone
strings, it could be thought of as our strings equivalent.
Dru
On 31 Oct 2010, at 21:15, Richard York wrote:
Fantastic again!
For a piping group this is really providing me with great hurdy gurdy
stuff!
Thank you, Colin.
As with John, I expect if I'd typed the right question phrased the
right way into Google... but you did and I'm delighted.
As you say, it's not 100% conclusive, but if that's the contemporary
illustration Mayhew would presumably have objected if that was not
what she played.
And it certainly goes with the text describing her guide accompanying
her.
Best wishes and more thanks,
Richard.
On 31/10/2010 19:07, Colin wrote:
It's generally accepted that she played the hurdy gurdy.
http://dl.tufts.edu/view_image.jsp?pid=tufts:MS004.002.054.DO01.00011
Hurdy gurdies were given to some to be able to make a living rather
than
going to the workhouse etc.
That illustration is from 1851 (taken from an earlier daguerreotype)
so she
was still alive but, of course, unlikely to be taken from life (and
we do
all know how accurate newspapers, journals and books are, don't we).
Colin Hill
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard York"
<[email protected]>
To: "NSP group" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:13 PM
Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal
Hi Anthony,
Thanks for this suggestion, which does indeed seem logical.
The Hurdy gurdy net group were talking about early names for the
gurdy recently, and this is where Old Sarah came up.
Mayhew, who was an experienced journalist who interviewed hundreds
of street people, so ought to know what he talked about, called it a
hurdy gurdy. There's a Scots reference in the 16th C to "Cymphan",
thought to be from the older "symphony" and that's one explanation.
She was fairly old when she talked to him, and from the early
repertoire she had she was possibly taught by an Irish or Scots
musician, so a misremembered "Cymphan" type word may have become
"Cymbal". But I certainly wouldn't go to the stake on that!
The old lady also talked about having to keep the works covered so
that pennies punters threw didn't get in and damage them.
She spoke of having to learn tunes, and mastering them over a few
weeks at first, so it wasn't a barrel organ type hurdy gurdy; and
the dulcimer is lacking in interior works, so I'm fairly happy going
with the gurdy as we now know it - there are pictures of people
playing them on London streets.
Thanks all for tolerating this excursion outside the Land Of
Smallpipe.
Best wishes,
Richard.
On 31/10/2010 16:38, Anthony Robb wrote:
On 31 Oct Richard York wrote lots including:
Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed "Old Sarah" a blind
Londonstreet
hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of
the
1800's
to play what she called the "cymbal".
Richard
Can't help with the tunes I'm afraid but it might be that the
instrument she calls the "cymbal" is in fact the cimbalom.
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom.
Good luck with your quest.
Cheers
Anthony
--
References
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom
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