Did we work this one out yet for players?

On 19 May 2011 14:24, Steven Millward <[email protected]> wrote:

> With property development you generally borrow money and as long as the
> yield on the development is greater than the cost of capital then you make
> money.
>
> It's a pretty simple calculation to do in fact.
>
>    - It's said to cost 16m for the first stage.
>    - It adds 2,500 seats.
>    - 30 quid a seat is 75,000
>    - Times 19 games is 1.45m
>    - That's a 9% yield.  Fairly reasonable for property development.
>    - I assume not all seats are filled but that the hospitality will
>    offset that and I haven't included that.  9% seems about right though.
>    - The expansion is being funded from cash flow though, so if the return
>    on the expansion is better than the return on other forms of investment 
> then
>    you would expand
>
> Now try it when buying players so we can compare the returns and understand
> Morgan's logic.
>
>    - Spend X million on a player?
>    - Residual value of Y million?
>    - Wages of say 1.5m a year?
>    - What does it get you as a return?
>    - What are the risks associated with getting those returns as it
>    affects the rate of return you'd want.  The risk is much higher so you'd
>    want a much higher rate of return than for expanding the stadium
>
>
> On 19 May 2011 13:05, Marcus Chantry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>  You do the same ROI calculations on the cost for the stadium development
>> (make sure you factor in the lost revenue from being relegated ie ticket
>> sales, sponsorship deals, corporate functions etc) and the payback period to
>> get back to breakeven and then we can compare numbers.  What period would
>> you like to run the projections over and also what is the ROC demanded of
>> the Board?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Steven Millward
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 12:56 PM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>>   *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] RE: Progress [sec=unclassified]
>>
>>
>>
>> OK.  And what's the cost in terms of players to move up a few places in
>> your view?
>>
>>
>>
>> And then what's the ROI?
>>
>> On 19 May 2011 12:51, Marcus Chantry <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Here is the prize money split for last season.  So places make a fairly
>> big difference for two-bob clubs like ours (£800,000 per place):
>>
>>
>>
>> Chelsea - £16,000,000 (WINNERS)
>> Manchester United - £15,200,000
>> Arsenal - £14,400,000
>> Totenham Hotspur - £13,600,000
>> Manchester City - £12,800,000
>> Aston Villa - £12,000,000
>> Liverpool - £11,200,000
>> Everton - £10,400,000
>> Birmingham - £9,600,000
>> Blackburn - £8,800,000
>> Stoke - £8,000,000
>> Fulham - £7,200,000
>> Sunderland - £6,400,000
>> Bolton - £5,600,000
>> Wolves - £4,800,000
>> Wigan - £4,000,000
>> West Ham - £3,200,000
>> Burnley - £2,400,000
>> Hull - £1,600,000
>> Portsmouth - £800,000
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Morris, Lee SGT
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 12:37 PM
>>
>>   *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] RE: Progress [sec=unclassified]
>>
>>
>>
>> The ground is defiantely not full every week...far from it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also though the prize money increases significantly eg - I read that
>> Stoke throwing in the towel this week could cost them a fair bit..although I
>> ahven't checked up on that.
>>
>>
>>
>> With the squad we have...we are about where we should be.....maybe a
>> little higher.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Steven Millward
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 12:23
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] RE: Progress [sec=unclassified]
>>
>>  How can a more successful team generate more cash?  The ground is full
>> every week and most people buy shirts.  The prize money and TV increase is
>> relatively small for finishing a few places higher.
>>
>>
>>
>> Where do you think we should be in the table Lee, with the squad we have?
>>
>> On 19 May 2011 11:09, Morris, Lee SGT <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I always thought a successful team, even relatively, is what brings in the
>> cash. Wolves fans are amongst the most fickle in the land and the loss of
>> revenue through relegation this year would be enormous....Notice I said
>> "would" I think we will stay up by the skin of out teeth and the slowly
>> slowly routine can continue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not for one moment would I suggest an all or nothing approach which is
>> what cost the likes of Leeds so dearly.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the end of the day its just debate, my club is in Morgan's hands, and
>> thats good enough for me....the team in Macarthy's is another matter.
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *LEESE Matthew
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 11:04
>>
>>   *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] RE: Progress [sec=unclassified]
>>
>>
>>
>> The new stadium is actually an opportunity to generate more money, not
>> only through increased capacity/ticket sales but through the 'non football'
>> facilities that will be included and allowing an income stream from the
>> stadium that is not so limited to match days. I'm aware there's already
>> facilities there for non match related activities but these will
>> (apparently) be substantially enhanced as part of the stadium upgrade.
>> Again, it comes down to a long term strategy for progress as opposed to a
>> 'quick fix'. If we invest the money in the short term in the team how does
>> that help us achieve longer term/sustained success? We may finish a couple
>> of places higher up the table in the first season but that doesn't generate
>> any more money to allow you to keep on building from there (OK a little bit
>> for each placing in the final table, but nothing substantial). The argument
>> then may be 'wouldn't that money have been better invested in upgrading the
>> stadium to allow us to build over the long term'.
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Morris, Lee SGT
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 10:46 AM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] RE: Progress [sec=unclassified]
>>
>> I've got nothing against the short slow steps, as long as progress is
>> being made. Morgan is obviously no mug, and I do understand Matty's
>> reasoning behind teh timing of the stadium redevelopment. Did we really need
>> it though? Morgan obvioulsy know best but why wouldn't he wait until our
>> safety is guaranteed?
>>
>>
>>
>> Its great for the fans to have a fantastic new stadium to watch football
>> in, but I for one would prefer to watch PL action in the current stadium
>> rather than championship football in the all singing dancing stadium.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe what I'm trying to say is, wouldn't that money be better spent on
>> team building?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Steven Millward
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 10:36
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] RE: Progress [sec=unclassified]
>>
>>  Agree.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand where everyone gets these lofty expectations from.  We
>> spent 30 years in the wilderness where the goal each and every crushing
>> season was simply to get back to the Premier League.  Now we are there, some
>> people seem to think we should be pushing for Europe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Marcus, you say that it will be 100 years until we get to near the top of
>> the table.  What makes you think that it is at all realistic for Wolves to
>> get near the top of the table?  What makes you even think that a top half
>> finish is realistic?  I assume you either expect money to be thrown at the
>> squad from some mysterious benefactor or that we will somehow magically make
>> more of the meagre squad that we have now.  I believe we are already
>> punching above our weight based on value of squad and wages.
>>
>>
>>
>> The news for everyone is that there are 19 other clubs who have the same,
>> or higher, ambitions.  Which clubs should we 'by right' finish higher
>> than? And for what reason?  I'd love to know where people think we should be
>> in the table relative to the teams above us and their teams.  If we expect
>> to finish 10th then presumably we clearly have a better team than ten other
>> teams?  Which teams are they?
>>
>>
>>
>> The only club that has outperformed us is West Brom.  Let's see how they
>> do next season before we claim the miracle of Hodgson.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wolves are no longer a big club and don't have any more money to spend
>> than other clubs.  In fact we have less.  We have a small stadium so
>> potential revenue growth is linked to telly money and inflation.  The
>> sensible thing to do is to invest in infrastructure that will generate
>> revenue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems everyone has got used to the golden tit where money was pumped in.
>> Morgan clearly doesn't want to spunk a load of money on players and that's
>> sensible.  I certainly wouldn't if it was my money.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's harsh to say that we haven't made progress.  Take where we were when
>> Hoddle left five years ago as a starting point.  As a mid-point look at the
>> side we started the first Premiership season with, with Keogh as our striker
>> and Halford on the wing.
>>
>>
>>
>> By the way Marcus, enjoy your last four days of blaming Mick for
>> everything because it will all stop come Monday morning.
>>
>>
>>
>> :D
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19 May 2011 09:38, LEESE Matthew <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I'd say the small step approach seems a sensible and proven one - look at
>> teams like Stoke and Sunderland and compare their recent history with that
>> of clubs who have over committed financially such as Portsmouth, Hull and
>> Leeds. Unless you've got a Man City type owner where you're not bound by the
>> club's ability to generate money its not worth the risk. I don't doubt
>> Morgan's business acumen for a moment and I think he's taking the club in
>> the right direction with a sensible, sustainable approach. Morgan has
>> pointed out that now is a perfect time to be redeveloping the stadium in
>> terms of the financials as the building industry (and many others) in the UK
>> is on its arse and so its a buyer's market where he can get the work done
>> for a knock down price. The first stages of the re-development don't
>> significantly increase the capacity of a stadium that was never half full
>> (save for Carling Cup games), even in the super depressing Hoddle era.
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Morris, Lee SGT
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 9:26 AM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* [NSWolves] Progress [sec=unclassified]
>>
>>  I've changed the title because it would have been too long with my extra
>> bit added.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway, Morgan seems to be working on the small step theory, which totally
>> baffles me because he's just about to spend a fortune on a stadium which
>> will be half full if the small step we made this year isn't
>> enough???????????????????????????????????????
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *mark worrall
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 09:13
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Wolves owner Steve Morgan says he wants Mick
>> McCarthy to stay on as the club's manager even if they are relegated.
>>
>> Maybe thats based on Morgan only planning on putting in small amounts of
>> money each year, and measuring MM on what he achieved with it ?
>>
>>
>>
>> He wont get a big name manager in as they will expect lots of money to
>> spend, which he obviously doesnt want to pay.
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Marcus Chantry <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> What worries me is that Morgan has stated that Mick has made progress
>> every year since he took over but when you look at how he’s measured that it
>> is the context of very small fractions or single points, so based on that
>> run rate Morgan will be 100 years old before he sees us getting anywhere
>> near the top of the table (assuming everyone else stays stagnant for that
>> entire period).
>>
>>
>>
>> Why can’t Morgan accept that Mick has reached the limit of his ability and
>> take the plunge.  5 years is long enough in most roles.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Marcus Chantry
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 9:00 AM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Wolves owner Steve Morgan says he wants Mick
>> McCarthy to stay on as the club's manager even if they are relegated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good to see we’re both on the ball Mark.  I just posted a link to the same
>> story on ESPN.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *mark worrall
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19 May 2011 8:55 AM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* [NSWolves] Wolves owner Steve Morgan says he wants Mick
>> McCarthy to stay on as the club's manager even if they are relegated.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13440664.stm
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>>
>> The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not
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>> Macquarie.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>>
>>   --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>>
>> --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>>
>>  Before printing, please consider the environment. IMPORTANT NOTICE: This
>> e-mail and any attachment to it are intended only to be read or used by the
>> named addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged
>> information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any
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>>
>> --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>>
>> --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>> Before printing, please consider the environment. IMPORTANT NOTICE: This
>> e-mail and any attachment to it are intended only to be read or used by the
>> named addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged
>> information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any
>> mistaken transmission to you. The RTA is not responsible for any
>> unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or attachment to it. Views expressed
>> in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily
>> the views of the RTA. If you receive this e-mail in error, please
>> immediately delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not
>> disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended
>> recipient.
>>
>> --
>> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
>> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>>
>>   --
> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>
>
>
> --
> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>
> --
> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>
> --
> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>
>
>
> --
> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>
> --
> Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
> A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
>
>
>
>

-- 
Q:  If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be?
A  That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.

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