> -----Original Message----- > From: ntg-context [mailto:ntg-context-boun...@ntg.nl] On Behalf Of Hans Hagen > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 12:50 AM > To: mailing list for ConTeXt users > Subject: Re: [NTG-context] spacing before items > > On 6/24/2020 12:00 AM, Mike Cooper wrote: > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: On Behalf Of David Rogers > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:18 PM > >> > >> > >> Mike Cooper <m...@murchisondrillingschools.com> writes: > >> > >>> Thanks Tomáš! > >>> > >>> 1. Where can this solution be found? > >> > >> > >> Mike, I know how you feel. > > >> David > > Indeed. It's all volunteer work that doesn't pay the bills. Sitting down > and starting to write a big manual simply doesn't pay off so it has to > happen in free time. And that being the case, it is more attactive to > work on some new challenge. > > Concerning manuals: I sometimes wonder if they are really read. So, how > to set up one that works for all, build up explanations, etc ... isn't > it more about googling a solution nowadays (ok, not entirely true i > guess, as one then has to learn how to distinguish the wrong solutions > from the good, but i suppose one can just test it).
I started out maybe a little bit hodge-podge, looking through some documentation recommended to me. The basic concept is very straightforward. No problem. But implementation has been extremely challenging (but it's probably just me!). Then I was pointed to Henri Menke's "Definitive Guide" post. I read the entire Excursion (though I confess I did not *practice* as I went along (partly because SciTe was such a pain)). The Excursion is not for (true) beginners. And, no offense, but I thought it was poorly typeset as well... Then I went through Aditya's "amazing tutorial" (mostly with a good bit of help from Aditya just to be able to get started!) and definitely learned more. But at the end I felt like it was mostly an exercise in "slow-motion copy/paste" (I retyped all the code). Of course, when I got the code right, I got the intended output. I did fiddle with options a little bit as I went. No doubt, I should have done more. There was too much of what I had "successfully" done that I still didn't really understand at the end of it. > > It has been said before: one can have manuals, wikis, mailing lists, > journals ... once they cross the beginners level they also become large > and hard to navigate. One can have 'beginners' and 'advanced' but who > wants to be a 'beginner' ... when is the line crossed. Maybe on the wiky > we should actually have that distinction. > > > Thanks David! > > > > I don't think I've ever been quite so frustrated at trying to learn > > anything else in > my life! If it wasn't required by my job, I wouldn't have made it past the > first day or > two (3 months ago). But I'm slogging away and it's gradually coming together > (I > think). I spent my whole day yesterday figuring out how to do some very basic > formatting/layout that would have taken 5-10 minutes in Word or HTML/CSS. > > > > People have been very helpful and patient with me!! Thanks to all of you > > for > that! > > Let me challenge you: how would your solution translate to a wiki page > for a beginner with the sam eproblem to solve ... content but also the > 'how to get there aspect' This is more general than about "my specific problem". There have been a number of different ones. They are all basic formatting/layout. I've resorted to asking about a couple of them on the mailing list after no joy anywhere else. Off the top of my head, I would suggest more explanation/description and especially more examples of what each option/key/whatever does. I've always found w3chools.com to be especially helpful with HTML/CSS because they give plenty of examples and explanation. I don't know if it's really feasible to do anything about it but another thing is the jargon. I probably mainly think in terms of HTML/CSS lingo and then MS Word. When I hunt through the wiki or the manuals or Google for solutions, I naturally use the terms I know. But it seems that the things I've wanted are referred to differently in ConTeXt. I spent *days* trying to figure out how to add more whitespace around a floated graphic (the default is too cramped in my opinion). I finally just threw up my hands and decided that no one else has this opinion but me so nobody has ever "fixed" it and thus, no solution exists. > > > And thanks David for this explanation of the situation. > There are a couple of things that you need to keep in mind when you > start with something like context: > > - you often bring with your experience (and exposure) to different > systems and these don't translate; recently i was playing with some css > setup for a rather complex xml -> html mapping and things that would > have taken me 5 minutes in tex costs me plenty of time in css due to all > kind of interactions; just as with tex, one can end up with hacks found > on the web (it was hobyism of course) Sure. I suppose this is the same as my "jargon" comment above. I don't mean to be a jerk or anything. I'm trying to learn this stuff. It's just extremely frustrating... ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________
