I'll look into running with gdb this week.

On the overall concept of ART measurement, there is a MIB - RFC 2564 -
that apparently different ART tools implement in various ways. 
Apparently Sniffer doesn't implement it as intended, but it "works"
nonetheless.  Agree on the timestamp thing, you'd have to create your
own high resolution stamps based on frame arrival at the ART collection
engine.  The Sniffer "Expert" engine is "better" than the basic ART
implementation - but then again that's what you pay the big $$$ for with
Sniffer.

Since this is now off topic from what this list is intended for I'll
not post on it further except for the -o arg killing the existing
implementation of the latency counter.  I would be interested in
discussing some sort of ART plugin on the dev list if you're interested.
 No way I could code this, but I could help develop the requirements,
process modeling, etc.

Gary


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4/3/2006 12:31:48 PM >>>
I can't see why it would matter - latency the way we define it is a
layer 3
item and the ethernet mac address from -o is layer 2.  So I'm not
saying
it's not related, just that I didn't see an obvious path - no smoking
gun
test on the prefs setting.

That's why I wanted to see the trace and debug turned on - it would
show if
it's not getting into that block of code or if it's not being
processed...

-----Burton

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
Chris Moore
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:24 AM
To: [email protected] 
Subject: RE: [Ntop] -o disables latency stats?


I don't normally look at the Ntop latency stats - I use Smokeping where
I
need them - but just to validate (perhaps) what Gary is saying I tested
it
and I see the same thing. With -o NO latency figures show up.
Without -o they do. At least some of them - not every session has a
latency
figure attached. Your point is well taken, Burton - it's not easy to
determine latency from sniffing packets. But it does seem that -o does
make
a difference.


Chris




-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
Burton Strauss
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 10:03 AM
To: [email protected] 
Subject: RE: [Ntop] -o disables latency stats?

Gary - WRT to latency other than at startup - once the application
starts
up, the best you can do would involve matching up two packets (in and
out)
and assuming (1) that they are related and (2) zero internal
processing
time.  Neither of those is a good assumption, nor a good fit w/
ntop...

To compute 5m rolling ping-pong times you would need to store the
interarrival times for every packet  (the standard formulas for
computing
mean, stddev etc w/o storage don't work) - that's going to be a huge
increase in the per-host traffic structure size.

As for the processing, say for sake of argument you are seeing a mysql
host
... The select() statement is going to run for several 10s of ms.  Then
the
various row retrievals will all have tiny processing overheads until
the
next select... Etc.  A web server serving up a mix of static and
dynamic
pages would have the same problematic pattern.

So is the 'right' answer the smallest?  Maybe ... But that's basically
the
3way handshake - which is already how we do it. A per session
average/min/max/stddev might work ... But still, the minimum is going
to
almost certainly be the startup.

What you are trying to pull out - application level response time - is
almost impossible w/o a detailed understanding of the application - and
a
general purpose tools such as ntop isn't the right thing for this
purpose.

-----Burton

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Gary
Gatten
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 3:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] 
Subject: RE: [Ntop] -o disables latency stats?

-m seems to be working OK.  I have several large nets defined as
local.

In fact, mostly I'm concerned with local-local latency which are all
part of
my 10.x.x.x network defined with -m

If latency is only during the handshake it's not as interesting to me
as
say... a rolling 5 min average of the session.  I'd still like to see
it
work again, but if it represented the more of the session than simply
the
handshake that would be ideal.  I'll add that to my wish list I sent
you
offline :)

Thanks Burton.  Have a great weekend!

Gary


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/31/2006 3:12:32 PM >>>
Latency is solely based on the handshake - that's the only time we can
be
reasonably sure that there's no processing occurring on the packet and
hence
we are actually seeing solely network (+ tcp/ip stack) latency...

First thought - check your local subnet settings (-m) ... We only
track
sessions for 'nonFullyRemoteSession' (i.e. at least one side is
local).

-----Burton

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Gary
Gatten
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 1:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] 
Subject: RE: [Ntop] -o disables latency stats?

Sorry, I should've clarified what interface I was referring to.

I'm running netflow and standard pcap.  In theory they're both seeing
the
same .. traffic, so I 'm kinda comparing pros and cons of each method.

The
latency is interesting to me.  I noticed on the netflow interface
latency
was always blank - I posted another question about that issue.

This issue is concerning the "real" interface using pcap.  Until I set
the
-t 5 -K and -o flags, I had latency stats.  When I set these flags, no
more
latency.  I guess it could be the K or t 5, but I was assuming it had
more
to do with the -o - maybe it was looking at interframe time between
MACS.
But, since you said it's at the TCP layer - then I don't know.  What
would
you need from me to look into this further?

Another question you made me think of:  is the latency stat fixed and
based
solely on the handshake times - or is it a dynamic average over the
life of
the session (or some length, like last 5 mins) of the session?

Gary


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/31/2006 12:24:44 PM >>>
Latency is different for netFlow / non-netFlow

For non-netFlow, it's based on the timestamps inside the packets, i.e.
the
SYN and SYN|ACK of the tcp 3-way handshake, from handleTCPSession() in
session.c:

    if(tp->th_flags == TH_SYN) {
      theSession->nwLatency.tv_sec = h->ts.tv_sec;
      theSession->nwLatency.tv_usec = h->ts.tv_usec;
      theSession->sessionState = FLAG_STATE_SYN;
    }


And then the block beginning:

  /* Latency measurement */
  if((tp->th_flags == (TH_SYN|TH_ACK)) && (theSession->sessionState ==
FLAG_STATE_SYN))  {
    theSession->sessionState = FLAG_FLAG_STATE_SYN_ACK;
  } else if((tp->th_flags == TH_ACK) && (theSession->sessionState ==
FLAG_FLAG_STATE_SYN_ACK)) {
    if(h->ts.tv_sec >= theSession->nwLatency.tv_sec) { ...
  }

For netFlow, it's just stored - IF it is part of the flow to begin
with.


There's nothing specific in the netFlow plugin WRT -o
(myGlobals.runningPref.dontTrustMACaddr).

You could turn on the debug line in netFlowPlugin.c:

      /*
        traceEvent(CONST_TRACE_INFO, "DEBUG: Nw Latency=%d.%d [%s:%d
->
%s:%d]",
        record->nw_latency_sec, record->nw_latency_usec,
        srcHost->hostNumIpAddress, sport,
        dstHost->hostNumIpAddress, dport);
      */

(remove the /* and */ so it's no longer a comment) - that would show if
it's
even seeing the data (vs associating incorrectly.


-----Burton

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Gary
Gatten
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:08 PM
To: [email protected] 
Subject: [Ntop] -o disables latency stats?

FreeBSD 6.0, nTop 3.2.1, compiled from CVS - I think....

I'm collecting data through a cisco SPAN port.  This port is a mirror
of the
our primary Frame-Relay WAN router interface.  The idea is to see
global WAN
stats.

Without -o I have latency stats, however, "all" the traffic gets
associated
with the router.  Not good.  Restarted with -o and I have all the
individual
hosts I wanted, but now there's no latency stats.

Am I missing something, or is this just the way it is?

Thanks!

Gary





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