ummm yeahhhhh, I think I'll stick to platinum , gold and silver
and of course the TPS reports (kudos to anyone that knows the TPS reference :) > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [NTSysADM] OT:Bitcoin > Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 02:32:28 +0000 > > Intrinsic value is entirely about an income stream: it's the discounted (i.e. > net present value, NPV) of all future income from the asset. If you sum all > that income, and discount to today's dollars, that's what the asset is worth > if you want to purchase it today. If you pay more, you're losing money. If > you pay less, you got a bargain: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_value_(finance) > > Value, as a general concept, is different, and as I said, it's what someone > else will pay you for it (or the utility that you personally derive from it, > if you have no intention of ever trading it). > > Gold has no intrinsic value - it doesn't produce anything in/of itself. It > has value - i.e. people will pay you for it. But whether they'll pay you more > or less than you paid for it yourself is entirely unknown. A lot of gold > appears to be held for speculative purposes, and thus "value" is a bit > susceptible to the emotional views of the buyers and sellers on the day. > > Gold isn't used as money anymore, because it fails various tests (e.g. > divisibility) - most importantly as a "store of value". The value of gold > changes, sometimes substantially, in a single day or week. The general > populace isn't willing to wear that exchange rate risk. As a "store of value" > isn't not particularly good, because the value of the 1kg of gold you have > under your bed might be half (or twice!) what it was a month ago. > > Either way, I was disputing that there's inherent value in complex > cryptographic numbers (aka re the Bitcoin post previously). Since there's no > market for these numbers (that I'm aware of), there's no value that's > discernable or determinable. > > Cheers > Ken > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Kurt Buff > Sent: Friday, 7 March 2014 12:55 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NTSysADM] OT:Bitcoin > > Mostly agree, but "value", or even "intrinsic value" isn't about providing an > income stream. Precious metals have served as money, along with several other > commodities, because they serve as a store of value, and fulfill the other > requisites for money (scarcity, durability, divisibility, distinct look and > sound, homogeneity through space and time, malleability, and beauty) > > Bitcoin surely fails on at least a couple of those points. > > Kurt > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Ken Schaefer <[email protected]> wrote: > > Bitcoin has inherent value because it has “a hard to find number with > > certain cryptographic properties”? > > > > > > > > Whilst I will grant you that the cryptographic properties are > > inherent, I’m not sure you could prove that they have any value. > > > > > > > > Is there a decent sized market for the supply and purchase of such numbers? > > No. And thus there is no value – value only exists when someone else > > is prepared to compensate you providing them with the item in question. > > > > > > > > As for gold and silver – are you talking about “intrinsic value”? If > > so, then neither gold nor silver has intrinsic value, as they provide no > > income. > > Investing in gold or silver is entirely a capital gains play – you’re > > hoping someone else will take it off your hands for more than you paid for > > it. > > Contrast to a bond or share, where the underlying security provides > > you with an income stream because the funds are used to pursue actual > > economic activity (obviously subject to the usual risk/reward caveats) > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > On Behalf Of Ken Cornetet > > Sent: Friday, 7 March 2014 9:09 AM > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [NTSysADM] OT:Bitcoin > > > > > > > > No, because Dave has at some point in the past went from doing what he > > does best (personal finance) to being an expert on all things > > financial. This is a good example. He clearly has done zero research > > into bitcoin, and yet he is an expert on it. > > > > > > > > Now, I’m not saying bitcoin is a good investment, but I am saying that > > Dave clearly doesn’t understand what it is, or what makes it valuable. > > In fact, he gets things exactly 180 degrees wrong. Bitcoin’s strengths > > are that it doesn’t depend on a government backing it. Like gold or > > silver, and unlike paper money, bitcoin has an inherit value (a hard > > to find number with certain cryptographic properties). > > > > > > > > He also conflates the the failure of MtGox with the bitcoin currency itself. > > That’s a bit like saying dollars are junk because some savings and > > loans failed during the 70s (which weren’t FDIC insured and real > > people lost real money). > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > On Behalf Of Webster > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 2:17 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [NTSysADM] OT:Bitcoin > > > > > > > > Just because he thinks Bitcoins are a pile of crap and a scam? > > > > > > > > > > > > Webster > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > on behalf of Ken Cornetet <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 6, 2014 12:28 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [NTSysADM] OT:Bitcoin > > > > > > > > I have great deal of respect for Dave’s financial philosophy and > > advice for the most part, but Dave long ago lost the distinction > > between his opinions and facts. > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > On Behalf Of Rod Trent > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 12:59 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [NTSysADM] OT:Bitcoin > > > > > > > > Oh, he does. He says it pretty plainly. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > On Behalf Of Tigran K > > Sent: Thursday, March 6, 2014 12:37 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [NTSysADM] OT:Bitcoin > > > > > > > > He doesn't understand what bitcoin is. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 9:21 AM, Rod Trent <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > To me…this pretty much explains the whole Bitcoin scam… > > > > > > > > http://youtu.be/32l1ht1wlLI > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > On Behalf Of J- P > > Sent: Thursday, March 6, 2014 12:02 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [NTSysADM] OT:Bitcoin > > > > > > > > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2105280/10-questions-on-the-mt-gox-impl > > osion.html > > > > > > > > > >
