You are being WAY to kind! They lie like a defense lawyer defending a person
caught on camera and are paid very well to.
Jon
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:44:26 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: FW: [NTSysADM] I'm sure you've heard already...
>
> Been there done that. State depreciation is not so great and you have
> to go back and check a lot of stuff. Expect loss of productivity.
>
> Bottom line migration of databases suck. Salesmen embellish.
>
> Susan Bradley
> Meet up with me, Amy, Philip and Jeremy at the Brain Explosion in Florida
> this September. I'll be talking about protecting your network
> http://www.thirdtier.net/brain-explosion/
>
> On 7/23/2014 6:31 PM, Bill Humphries wrote:
> >
> > This is a 20 person firm and Lacerte’s slow death of DMS was the final
> > nail in the coffin. It has to happen this off season.
> >
> > They already utilize CCH for PM and Engagement, so I think that is the
> > way things will fall. I’ve been pretty happy with CCH support for the
> > software they currently use.
> >
> > I haven’t gotten to sit in on any webinar yet, but CCH is really
> > pushing the client to only consider the cloud offering. I don’t
> > really get why there is the huge push from accounting LOBs to ditch
> > the on premise. Even with on premise they get yearly recurring
> > software license fees.
> >
> > I know they promise roses and eternal bliss, but I’d like to see them
> > actually do a data conversion to see how well that actually works.
> >
> > I’m working on a list of questions and concerns that need to be
> > addressed at the next meeting.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > *From:*Jonathan Link [mailto:[email protected]]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:29 PM
> > *To:* Bill Humphries
> > *Subject:* Re: [NTSysADM] I'm sure you've heard already...
> >
> > I wanted to come back to this after basically saying indeed, in
> > response to seeing the security or lack thereof. I work for a 40
> > person accounting firm, and I saw you're assisting with a move from
> > Lacerte. I can't speak to that migration, but we are in the beginning
> > phases of assessing cloud providers and moving our operations to the
> > cloud. We probably won't be doing it anytime soon, but we're going to
> > do a bunch of due diligence here and TCO comparisons.
> >
> > One of the things to be cognizant is vendor lock in that comes with
> > going with Thomson's or CCH's cloud offerings. From what I've seen,
> > getting access to the underlying data is something of a challenge and
> > unknown quantity, so switching to a different provider at a later date
> > may become cost prohibitive.
> >
> > We are a Thomson, UltraTax shop, but last summer evaluated the CCH Tax
> > offering again.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Bill Humphries <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >
> > I have an accounting firm that is ditching Lacerte and all the other
> > vendors are pushing nothing but cloud options at them. Most of the
> > security talk has been "let us tell you how the datacenter is
> > secured." No talk of real factors such as how passwords stored,
> > multifactor authentication availability, backing up your own data, etc.
> >
> > One of the vendors did provide a couple of PDFs for security. One
> > sheet was like a SAS 70 checklist with a blurb stating we have a
> > policy for this for each section. The other PDF was outlining the IBM
> > datacenter they use and that IBM maintains their security and backups.
> > The one interesting thing in that is that they claim that all the
> > backups are through Tivoli to tape and then cloned for offsite
> > storage. That is a lot of tape.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> > [mailto:[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:49 PM
> > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: [NTSysADM] I'm sure you've heard already...
> >
> > I just called up my cable company to reconfigure my ever increasing
> > cable bill and renegotiated the costs. So the idea that cloud services
> >
> > has a defined cost structure I would debate on. My personal experience
> > in all cloud services is that some have gone up, some have gone down.
> > :-)
> >
> > As the premise options become
> > a. more expensive
> > b. less attractive
> >
> > and quite frankly as we dinosaurs age out/retire/the youngsters that
> > only use Google apps take over/ this will all change. No one here is
> > not saying all of this is not happening, I'm just not willing to
> > accept some of the ideas that the vendors provide are the key
> > advantages. It's an advantage for them for sure.
> >
> > As the vendors themselves stop developing premises based software -
> > (and this is the key movement I see in the SMB space) - because it's
> > cheaper for them (less support for us pesky desktops with lord knows
> > how many versions of OS), easier for them to build the infrastructure
> > where they want it, and better for them as they can plan on the
> > revenue subscription model. As Rod said, it's the app model taking over.
> >
> > It is what it is. All of us will deal. But outsourcing isn't always
> > best for a firm (ask the NSA and their outsourced admin Snowden) and
> > has it's risks as well as the benefits that shouldn't be overlooked.
> >
> > Ask the hard questions of the vendors and don't just click through
> > those eulas (as we in small biz do). Ask who has the encryption keys,
> > etc etc.
> >
> > (spreadsheets from the cloud security alliance as examples)
> >
> > https://downloads.cloudsecurityalliance.org/initiatives/ccm/ccm-v3.0.1.zip
> > https://downloads.cloudsecurityalliance.org/initiatives/cai/caiq-v3.0.1.zip
> >
> > Many of the vendors are still putting in place key elements and still
> > fighting jurisdictional issues. (Examples:
> > http://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2014/06/04/unfinished-business-on-government-surveillance-reform/
> > http://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2014/07/01/advancing-our-encryption-and-transparency-efforts/
> >
> > Susan Bradley
> > Meet up with me, Amy, Philip and Jeremy at the Brain Explosion in
> > Florida this September. I'll be talking about protecting your network
> > http://www.thirdtier.net/brain-explosion/
> >
> > On 7/22/2014 6:47 PM, Ken Schaefer wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > I s*trongly* urge the guys (and gals) on the list that think like the
> >
> > > previous post to take a step back, and ask yourself “why are these
> > > cloud providers becoming popular?” This is a bit of a long post, but
> > > bear with me – but it might help shape your future career.
> > >
> > > For large enterprises, we went to outsourcers a long time ago – MSPs
> > > also had some limited penetration in the SME market. But traditional
> > > outsourcing involves a fair amount of vendor management overhead, so
> > > it was significant barriers for SMEs (and even large organisations).
> > > Despite these costs and barriers, people still outsourced. Why?
> > >
> > > There’s only a single reason IME.
> > >
> > > Look in any ITSM framework (ITIL is the obvious candidate here), and
> > > you’ll see a section in Service Architecture called “Financial
> > > Management” – how do develop business services that provide value
> > > whilst also being profitable (or at least, break-even). In many
> > > organisations, due to the thinking in some of the posts in this
> > > thread, it was impossible to quantify the actual cost of IT. Consider
> > > the very simple financial model below. It doesn’t even have a service
> > > catalogue – it just attributes general ledger costs (actual cash
> >
> > > outgoing) back to business units. *Most organisations had IT units
> > > that were incapable of figuring this out*.
> >
> > >
> > > Instead, IT is simply see as a sinkhole of random requests for money –
> > > need to replace the SAN. Need to replace a server. Need to buy some
> >
> > > network bandwidth. But what’s the **value** provided by that kit? What
> >
> > > applications is that kit supporting – is the app bringing in $1m
> > > running on $2m of expenses? What business units are consuming this
> > > expense? Can they justify the bills being spent by IT to support them?
> > >
> >
> > > **THS** is why outsourcing (and now Cloud) is popular. *Cloud gives a
> > > very defined set of services, for a very defined set of costs* (and
> >
> > > it’s also OPEX to boot – which is usually a bonus). A business can see
> > > how much a printed page is costing, or 1GHz of CPU or 1GB of mailbox
> > > storage, or 1 CRM user. All the licensing, hardware, labour, network,
> > > IT service management etc. is wrapped up into a single $x/month, and
> > > it comes in a nice service catalogue format.
> > >
> > > Certainly this is more of an issue for larger enterprises today, than
> > > it is for smaller companies. But as the barriers to engaging an
> > > external provider continue to fall (and they will), it will become
> >
> > > more and more attractive to all parties. Companies **will** buy IT
> >
> > > services just like they buy marketing, legal, utilities, property
> > > management and cleaning services today.
> > >
> >
> > > **If** your IT BU can get ahead of the game, and turn itself into an
> >
> > > actual IT Service Provider (and reading something like ITIL Service
> > > Architecture and Service Design books is essential here, IMHO), then
> > > you stand a chance of still providing IT services internally. If not,
> > > then it will simply become too attractive to go with an external
> > > provider, and just buy commodity IT services from an external IT
> > > Service Provider.
> > >
> > > This is just the top of the iceberg, and I’m happy to elaborate if
> > > there’s any genuine interest in the topic. I have seen a reasonable
> > > amount of moaning about “the cloud” on the list though, and a bit of a
> > > failure to understand why it’s popular. The drivers above are not
> > > going to change – they are just going to increase. So, as IT folk, we
> > > can either ride the wave, or get dumped on the beach. I know which I’d
> > > rather prefer, even if it isn’t the career I anticipated when I
> > > started out. Hopefully the above gives you a bit of visibility into
> >
> > > one facet of what IT architecture involves JFiguring out how we do the
> >
> > > above is one facet of working as a service management architect (if
> > > that’s a route you choose to go down).
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> >
> > > *From:*[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> >
> > > [mailto:[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *J- P
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, 23 July 2014 11:06 AM
> > > *To:* NT
> >
> > > *Subject:* RE: [NTSysADM] I'm sure you've heard already...
> >
> > >
> > > a) 200 per month to manage
> > > b) storage, minimal as its SQL based and the database compresses at
> > > roughly 90% (again this is one particular case) DB is <1GB , post
> > > compression less than 100mb
> > > c) host was already pre-existing , so the hardware was already in
> > > place , and under warranty, and i normally add extend support once the
> > > initial 3yr 5x9 expires
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --
> >
> > >
> > > From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > Subject: RE: [NTSysADM] I'm sure you've heard already...
> > > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 00:48:47 +0000
> > >
> >
> > > a)How much is that host (and associated network equipment, storage,
> >
> > > security appliances etc.) depreciating per month?
> > >
> >
> > > b)What the additional management overhead of another VM? (backup
> >
> > > space, DR testing, ongoing patching, new outage windows)
> > >
> > > It’s never as simply as “just add another VM”, otherwise running
> > > 100,000 VMs would cost just as much as 1 VM
> > >
> >
> > > *From:*[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > [mailto:[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *J- P
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, 23 July 2014 10:17 AM
> > > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > *Subject:* RE: [NTSysADM] I'm sure you've heard already...
> >
> > >
> > > I was referring to the vendors cloud , i.e. "we'll host our XYZ
> > > software on our servers/cloud for you" thus giving management the
> > > illusion that it's more cost effective , no hardware to maintain, no
> > > "outages" , no IT cost etc..
> > >
> > > They don't take into account "well based on users and modules, it will
> > > be 900 per month"
> > >
> > > When in reality , just add a VM guest to an already existing host and
> > > voila
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --
> >
> > >
> > > From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > Subject: Re: [NTSysADM] I'm sure you've heard already...
> > > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 23:57:32 +0000
> > >
> > > That's becoming less of an issue. You can now create your own local
> > > server and app images and upload them to Azure to run in a VM of your
> > > creation. Eliminates the compatibility issues.
> > >
> > > Sent from my Surface Pro 3
> > >
> >
> > > *From:*J- P <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 6:49 PM
> > > *To:* '[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>'
> > > <mailto:[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > >
> >
> > > At one non-profit I work for , when upgrading/updating to latest
> > > accounting application version , the salesperson himself said
> > >
> > > "based on the amount of modules you use, you would be wise to host in
> > > on premise"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jean-Paul Natola
> > >
> > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:23:53 -0700
> > > > From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > > Subject: Re: [NTSysADM] I'm sure you've heard already...
> > > >
> > > > I still have a fair bit of line of business apps that aren't in the
> > > > cloud (granted that's a yet) and if that vendor moves to the cloud
> > > > it's highly unlikely to be in Microsoft's cloud.
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile back at the cloud we pick really sucky passwords and we
> > > > are not solving the access problems of divergent cloud vendors.
> > > >
> > > > Small businesses that are just starting out may be more Google apps
> > > > ready than Microsoft cloud ready.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Susan Bradley
> > > > Meet up with me, Amy, Philip and Jeremy at the Brain Explosion in
> > > Florida this September. I'll be talking about protecting your network
> > > > http://www.thirdtier.net/brain-explosion/
> > > >
> > > > On 7/22/2014 2:16 PM, Rod Trent wrote:
> > > > > The Cloud is all about small business - at least from Microsoft's
> > > perspective.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
