All good, APT is a legitimate term like so many that start out legitimate and 
then are used and abused by security companies to the point where the term 
becomes confused and dirty.

Even a lot of APT can actually be stopped rather easily. Aurora for example 
could have been defeated simply by enforcing all outbound network traffic to 
traverse through a web proxy. The malware used in Aurora was not proxy aware. 
Stuxnet is another that is easy to defeat with good technical security best 
practices. One of the privilege escalation vulnerabilities it used could be 
prevented, and therefore prevent the subsequent chain of events, simply by 
having good file permissions. And these are not magical permissions that you 
would have had to know about Stuxnet to implement but rather best practices 
that in fact some companies I know already had. For example one of our 
customers that is a bank with over a half million windows systems had this file 
permissions configuration in place and so when Stuxnet was discovered instead 
of having to drop everything and patch over a half million systems they were 
already mitigated and could patch as part of their regular cycle. Don't get me 
wrong there is plenty of APT, and even general cybercrime attacks, that are 
very difficult but there have been few attacks ever, APT included, that could 
not have been prevented in a generic and reasonable way. 

The problem is our industry celebrates people who break software more than 
people who help educate what you can do to be more secure (beyond a product). 
And that is not to say we should celebrate the researchers doing vulnerability 
research less but rather to celebrate people doing innovative and educational 
things around protection more. 

We actually have a white paper on the topic of security configuration best 
practices and examples of how some of these basic things can go very far in 
stopping even APT and other sophisticated attacks. You can grab that paper 
"eEye Research Report: In Configuration We Trust" from our website here: 
http://www.eeye.com/resources/literature/white-papers We also have a webinar 
with myself and one of my researchers giving a bit of an overview of the white 
paper that you can view here "On the Frontline of the Threat Landscape" 
http://www.eeye.com/resources/media-center/webinars-podcasts

Your last point Alan is a good one on how are we going to get better... Sadly 
in the 13+ years I have been in this space it seems we only get better through 
pain. But then as I discuss in a keynote I have been giving at conferences 
lately, I do not think this is a IT/security problem but rather something 
rooted deeper in basic human nature and our inability to be proactive without 
pain etc... 

-Marc

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Davies [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:27 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: AV and malware protection?

Agree wholeheartedly for the majority of threats.  The only exception I'd make 
is for APT (sorry to mention buzzwords!!).  Security through obscurity can be a 
very valid defence against undirected attacks (and probably most directed ones 
too), but a little social engineering, insider knowledge, etc. and it doesn't 
matter so much anymore.  Stuxnet was a good example.  What matters are the real 
controls in place, your people and your processes.
 
On your last comment Marc, I do worry how we are ever going to get to a 
scenario where businesses in general are well protected since only very few, 
through either extraordinary diligence of their own doing, or through 
regulatory necessity, make that time or care about that level of knowledge (aka 
funds!).  PCI perhaps is at least a start in terms of introducing some of these 
concepts to otherwise unregulated verticals.
 
 
 
a

________________________________

From: Marc Maiffret [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: 11 October 2011 01:28
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: AV and malware protection?



The reality is that most IT environments are all using one of the 2-4 popular 
AV products. One of the 5-6 popular network firewalls. This makes it so that 
the ease at which an attacker can setup a test lab to mimic the average 
business and ensure their attack will be successful is a very easy thing.

 

In order to be successful in today's IT security environment you need to 
customize security to your specific environment. If you spend even a reasonable 
amount of time customizing your security at the OS and network level you can 
prevent the vast majority of attacks. This is not opinion but fact.

 

Problem is that most people in IT have not been given the time or education by 
management to be able to do this successfully so alas everyone just installs a 
product and hopes it works. Likewise the attacker installs the product, makes 
sure their exploit works, and does not abide by hope.

 

Now of course you could have the time and knowledge and not a product that 
allows for customization. But that is a different thing all together. 

 

-Marc

 

Signed,

Marc Maiffret

Founder/CTO

eEye Digital Security

WEB: http://www.eEye.com

BLOG: http://blog.eeye.com

TWITTER: http://twitter.com/#!/marcmaiffret

 

 

From: Alan Davies [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 2:01 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: AV and malware protection?

 

Huge +1 to that.  Anyone who says product x is the best, is, at best, correct 
for a short period of time!  All AV is poor - I seem to remember about 70% 
protection is as high as any product gets by some measurements.

 

Why on earth would you encourage users not to use IE!?  Again, FUD mostly - IE 
is one of, if not the most secure browser out there out of the box.  Firefox 
not so great.  Now I agree that you can add various addons to change the game, 
mostly at the expense of functionality, but these also require management and 
understanding - something that normal users will not have!  Top  browsers all 
managed well equal a fairly level playing ground.

 

 

 

a

 

________________________________

From: Mike Gill [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: 07 October 2011 19:50
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: AV and malware protection?

I have seen exploits on systems with just about every (fully updated) AV 
product heard of. There is no product that will win every time playing this cat 
and mouse game. I run MSE on my personal systems. Vipre and Nod32 on client 
computers. I encourage users not to use IE.

 

-- 
Mike

 

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 11:26 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: AV and malware protection?

 

Yep, the current version.  From what I have seen done to it by web-based 
exploit infections, I would classify the product as "a joke".

I thought it was decent before, but I currently have no faith in it.  This 
being part of the scenario of users, using IE, getting hit with drive-by's, 
those drive-by's pulling down more crap, and ultimately owning the system with 
rootkits.  

IMO, MSE has been worthless in these situations.

--
Espi

 

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