Points taken, most notably the "aren't necessarily server types" and "use the 
wizards" lines. Two implementations SBS 2003 have been my only exposure to the 
product and although I've had two clients have been on this product for many 
years with very few issues (I spend way more time dealing with desktop issues, 
rarely do I ever have to troubleshoot a server issue) , I have never claimed 
(nor ever will) to be an SBS expert. I only know the product well enough to 
know it's a cheap way for SMB's to get a server + Exchange + SQL.

At least with SBS client #2 I have done pretty much zero uh...."customization".

If it came across as downplaying guys that SUPPORT SBS that's not my intention 
at all, my intention was my mistaken impression that SBS was aimed at least in 
part at SMB's that don't necessarily have any IT staff and that Joe SMB owner 
could figure out how to make it work enough to make use of ir. I sure wouldn't 
expect Joe SMB to attempt a swing, or even change GPO's for that matter.

Thanks for the feedback, it's always appreciated. And when dealing with me it's 
OK to be blunt, like "use the wizards dumba$$". I don't know what I don't know.

Dave

From: Art DeKneef [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:20 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SBS swing - don't feel my pain

About the SBS OU structure, for the most part that's true. But as you 
experienced, changing the default structure caused you lost time and 
aggravation. What if a future patch or service pack broke something because of 
your change? Most of us that have been working with SBS over all the versions 
learned long ago to leave the default structure alone and create new OUs as 
needed.

As for the Wizards, use the Wizards. That's what they are there for. To help 
you in doing your job efficiently and consistently. How many admins have 
created scripts to aid them in doing their job better? Same thing here. The SBS 
group spent a lot of time finding ways to help make our jobs easier.

SBS is not aimed at shops that "aren't necessarily server types". (Well maybe 
with the exception of SBS 2011 Essentials, but that's a different story.) 
That's a misnomer that keeps being spread by those who truly don't get the 
product. Like Mike Hoffman said, and in my experience also, these "server 
types" are the ones that cause a lot of their own trouble. Because they think 
they know better. Sure business owners have messed up. But not to the extent of 
"others".

Delicate mode/
In following your trials and issues with SBS over time, maybe you should use 
the Wizards more and stop treating your SBS Servers like regular Windows 
Servers. There are differences that need to be understood.

And for your analogy of default install locations of applications, your 
generally talking about one application having some of its defaults changed. 
Yes there can be trouble with the changes. Changing the defaults in SBS doesn't 
just affect the OS, it can possibly affect Exchange, SharePoint, WSUS, etc. if 
not done correctly. Best to use what they gave you.

Delicate mode off/

Art

From: David Lum [mailto:[email protected]]<mailto:[mailto:[email protected]]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:30 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SBS swing - don't feel my pain

I don't think SBS OU structure matters unless you're doing a swing. Well...SBS 
has "create new user" and other wizards that may break, as the product it's 
aimed at shops with folks that aren't necessarily "server types", so I'm sure 
if one wanted to use the wizards they'd break if you start moving things 
around. For better or worse I don't use the SBS wizards, but maybe I'll try out 
the 2011 ones.

It's kind of akin to changing the default install locations of an application - 
in general only the more savvy types will change the defaults, and I have run 
into an app or two over the years that REQUIRED an application (or portion 
thereof) to be in a specific location. In fact THAT has happened enough that 
except for some server apps I do leave the defaults. Even then on servers it's 
usually just changing the drive letter and keeping the remainder of the default 
structure intact.

Dave

From: Maglinger, Paul 
[mailto:[email protected]]<mailto:[mailto:[email protected]]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:57 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SBS swing - don't feel my pain

Interesting... so is there documentation out there somewhere out there that 
dictates what you can and cannot change in the OU structure?

-Paul

From: David Lum [mailto:[email protected]]<mailto:[mailto:[email protected]]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:11 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SBS swing - don't feel my pain

Thought you guys might like to know this one: After a few days of my SBS2K3 --> 
SBS2K11 upgrade swing testing bombing out, we (OK, sbsmigration.com ) figured 
out the fix and I thought you guys might benefit from my pain. Seriously, I 
have probably 30 hours in the last week/weekend  invested in troubleshooting 
this one issue, but 28 of them Is because I was determined to figure it out 
myself before opening a ticket with sbsmigratin.com. Hey, I wasn't in a time 
crunch and I was sure I could figure it out.

Short version:
An 2003 Domain controller (effectively a 2nd DC from an SBS domain) is the 
"source" for an SBS2011 server - the 2011 server migration setup performs a 
scripted DCPROMO, Exchange 2010 install, and SharePoint install (and a few 
other things).

During the SBS2011 build, it needs to know name, IP, domain admin account, etc 
so it can do all this. In my test environment the server would complete the 
DCPROMO and Exchange install, but toward the VERY end of a 90 minute install it 
would basically GPF (not bluescreen, just an error popup sating SBS2011 install 
could not complete".

Now - SBS servers are a little special as they set up the OU structure slightly 
different out of the box than a standard server, but your free to rearrange as 
you see fit. Except...

Doing troubleshooting, it turns out all my pain was caused by my OU structure 
having this (FYI "My Business" is an SBS-created OU):
My Business
Exchange Resources
                Distribution Groups

Instead of this
My Business
Distribution Groups

Seriously, that's it. The error log created by SBS2011 install complains about 
a SharePoint Service not being able to register with VSS, but with the ONLY 
change being moving that OU up one level it allowed the installation to finish. 
I had suspected it was something I had changed from the default and even had a 
fresh SBS2003 server I was building so I could find the deltas between my 
production SBS and a virgin one, but it would have taken me probably a few more 
days to arrive at the OU difference.

What did I learn? Well actually quite a bit about Windows, but the biggest 
takeaway is when truly stuck, call in an expert!! I am SO GLAD I spent the 
money on an SBS swing kit!
David Lum
Systems Engineer // NWEATM
Office 503.548.5229 // Cell (voice/text) 503.267.9764


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