Dave,
We already know you are the BOMB... but its funny when you get those A HA moments, I have been down them myself now studying and getting up to speed on SQL 2005/2008, even though I am not "certed" in these, I fill that the school of "hard knocks" practical experience in design, deployment and now troubleshooting has given me valuable insight into what a DBA should be doing day in and day out.. and actually its a lot of fun... (amazing I am having fun at this point in my career :-)) Z Edward E. Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization Email: [email protected] Phone: 401-639-3505 MCSE, MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ________________________________ From: David Lum [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:07 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: SUSPECT: RE: MCSE question Something I haven't seen mentioned in this mega long thread (assuming anyone is still reading). While I don't have an certs, I *have* taken several classes aimed along the certification line and I do have to say I've learned from the class each time. Be it the "A HA!" moment where you learn a background process you weren't aware of but explains something you've had to troubleshoot before, to learning something that can help you improve reliability, speed, planning, etc, the classes at least are useful even if you don't take the exams. I wish I was a better test taker because I *think* I'm probably as good as many MCSE's (we used to have one here but I was amazed what I knew and he didn't) but don't have any certs to prove it, just awesome references (I could give you a dozen and you could pick any three) and a bitchin' resume - unless you're looking for certs/degrees :-). Dave From: Tim Vander Kooi [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:18 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: SUSPECT: RE: MCSE question John, I think that the relevance of college degrees in the 21st century will depend greatly on the cost of attending college either A) continuing to spiral out of control in relation to other costs or B) leveling off and then coming back into line with other costs of living. If option A bears out, then no one other than the extremely wealthy, will have college degrees 10 years from now. YOMV, TVK From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 2:42 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: SUSPECT: RE: MCSE question I think that trend will end, though, as we move forward in the 21st century. I suspect that more and more employers will expect the IT pros they hire to have degrees and the knowledge that (hopefully) comes with them. The Master's I'm working on is in Management Information Systems. Interestingly, this program actually falls under the university's College of Business. The coursework focuses strongly on aligning IT skills with business needs-in fact, several of the courses we take are actually part of the MBA program. This is critical because there has traditionally been somewhat of a disconnect between business and IT, but companies in recent years have started to push much more strongly for business justifications for IT investments. IT pros are having to learn how to more closely integrate with the business side of things. From: Jeremy Phillips [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 3:25 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: SUSPECT: RE: MCSE question All valid points, and I was not in any way discounting the value inherent in possessing a degree. My ultimate point was that I've never seen them to be a valid indicator of whether or not an individual has the skills necessary to perform their job requirements, nor does the lack of a degree limit how far one can advance in this field. In fact the vast majority of the higher-paid ($100k+) professionals I know in IT don't have a college degree and a couple of them don't even have a high school diploma. Maybe I simply know more exceptional people than most. :-) Thanks, Jeremy Phillips From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 12:03 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: SUSPECT: RE: MCSE question While it's certainly true that people can find success without a degree, that's the exception rather than the rule. Most higher-paying professional positions require one, and statistically people with degrees tend to earn much more money over their lifetimes than those without. We all know that neither degrees nor certification, by themselves, prove anything other than that you've invested the time and money to get them. And you do have to have some degree of smarts, at least to get a degree from a real university. But they still have value, and in my experience most people recognize that. John Hornbuckle MIS Department Taylor County School District 318 North Clark Street Perry, FL 32347 www.taylor.k12.fl.us From: Jeremy Phillips [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 2:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: SUSPECT: RE: MCSE question I was in consulting for ~6.5 year, both direct and subcontracting to other consulting firms, and would argue the opposite actually. I've never had any Microsoft certs and don't have a college degree. Out of hundreds of engagements I only once had a customer ask about this. That turned out to be the project from hell as well. :-) Additionally, I do a fair bit of hiring right now and honestly I could care less if someone is certified or has a degree. All I care about is whether or not candidates know what they are doing. Certs have never told me this and I don't really see how they ever could... That being said this is surely an interesting thread so far. Thanks, Jeremy Phillips From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:06 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: SUSPECT: RE: MCSE question Bah. You should think of certs and degrees merely as ways to get you entry. I work with lots of banks and educational institutions; and subcontract to other consulting firms. Certs and degrees are the price of entry. Regards, Michael B. Smith, MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP My blog: http://TheEssentialExchange.com/blogs/michael I'll be at TEC'2009! http://www.tec2009.com/vegas/index.php ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~
