I think given the state of security these days in the Internet technology world, that ignorance is not a defense, there is enough documentation from the vendors, and the internet to properly secure wireless AP, if people would just use it.
U might find a sympatheic jury but then again you are dealing with copyright infringement, that is big bucks on violations, and looks like that Bar and the person who committed the crime itself are going to take a big bite in the wallet. Ok on to next juicy argument.. Thanks for the discussion helps reinforce the concepts well. Z -----Original Message----- From: Kurt Buff [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:36 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT, heads up free wifi Not always true. If you can be demonstrate that no reasonable person would be aware of it, then you can convince a jury that they shouldn't convict. That *is* a gamble, however. Kurt On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:31, Jonathan Link <[email protected]> wrote: > Ignorance of the law is not a defense. > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Don Ely <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Ignorance is not defensible in court... >> >> On 12/2/09, Phillip Partipilo <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I'd imagine they would have to prove that you were competent enough to >> > configure the security. Wardrive through an industrial area full of >> > relatively small-time auto garages sometime (WiFiFoFum). You're >> > unlikely to >> > find many secured APs. Since they will work right out of the box >> > without >> > configuring when attached to any modern high speed modem, those not >> > "into" >> > computers may find out "hey, it just works, that was easy, cool." And >> > that's >> > the end of it. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Phillip Partipilo >> > >> > Parametric Solutions Inc. >> > >> > Jupiter, Florida >> > >> > (561) 747-6107 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Ziots, Edward [mailto:[email protected]] >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:18 PM >> > To: NT System Admin Issues >> > Subject: RE: OT, heads up free wifi >> > >> > >> > >> > Just in short, >> > >> > >> > >> > The Pub owner, didn't practice Due-care nor Due-Diligence, in there >> > wireless >> > setup, thus allowing someone (s) to usethere network to commit crimes. >> > Therefore I would have to agree that the Pub Owner is liable and the >> > person >> > that downloaded the copyrighted material is also guilty. >> > >> > >> > >> > Civil Court is based on Tort Law, there just needs to be a Preponderance >> > of >> > evidence to determine guilt/liability. >> > >> > >> > >> > preponderance of evidence >> > >> > The degree of proof reequired in most civil actions. It means that the >> > greater weight and value of the credible evidence, taken as a whole. >> > belongs >> > to one side in a lawsuit rather to the other side. In other words, the >> > party >> > whose evidence is more convincing has a "preponderance of evidence" on >> > its >> > side and must, as a matter of law, prevail in the lawsuit because it has >> > met >> > its burden of proof. >> > >> > >> > >> > Therefore logs from the wireless router showing the connection from said >> > person to the wireless AP which was not protected ( lack of >> > due-diligence or >> > due-care) along with no warning for anyone attaching to the wireless >> > AP/Network, and copyright infringement conducted over said network ( >> > bases >> > for the communication to download such works, illegally) equals to me >> > preponderance of evidence by a long mile, and thus guilt on both >> > reguards ( >> > the wireless AP provider, and the party which downloaded the material) >> > >> > >> > >> > PS: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal guidance, but it's a good >> > case >> > to reinforce the CISSP material I am studying for in FEB 2010. >> > >> > >> > >> > Z >> > >> > >> > >> > Edward Ziots >> > >> > Network Engineer >> > >> > Lifespan Organization >> > >> > MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + >> > >> > [email protected] >> > >> > Phone:401-639-3505 >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > From: C.E. Gene Connor [mailto:[email protected]] >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:58 PM >> > To: NT System Admin Issues >> > Subject: OT, heads up free wifi >> > >> > >> > >> > I came across this bit of what I see as a use less use of a court >> > system. >> > >> > http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10405824-83.html?tag=nl.e757 >> > >> > >> > >> > Or why something like this would even make it in front of a judge in >> > the >> > first place. A law may have been broken and I support any laws that keep >> > anyone from stealing something that doesn't belong to them!! >> > >> > >> > >> > But, I'm really worried about where all this is going. I have a out of >> > work >> > friend that lives next to me. I let him from time to time log into my >> > wireless network to job hunt and check his mail. Am I going to be put in >> > jail if he downloads something? Maybe I need to stop before they come >> > knocking on my door. >> > >> > >> > >> > Either way I just wanted you all to have a read over this. And maybe >> > your >> > company and legal dept. could prevent something as this. In the event >> > you >> > all might need to put into affect a user policy for you all wireless >> > network. For if I read it right and understand it? It could happen to >> > any >> > one on this list or any of your users etc. >> > >> > >> > >> > And yes, I know this happened across the other side of the world. But, >> > you >> > never know where it might go next. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Gene C. >> > >> > In Memory of my little brother >> > http://genec-lori.com/ >> > >> > PackRat GarageSale >> > http://genec-lori.biz/ >> > >> > Genes-Computers Inc. >> > Yulee ,Fl >> > Established 1981, Microsoft OEM Registered member, system builder & >> > Active >> > registered Microsoft Partner >> > Active Charter Partner of The Association of System Builders and >> > Integrators >> > If you think you're beaten, Then you are! >> > If you give up the fight, Accept it !! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > If this email is spam, report it here: >> > >> > >> > <http://www.onlymyemail.com/view/?action=reportSpam&Id=ODEzNjQ6MTAxMzIxOTkxO >> > TpwanBAcHNuZXQuY29t> http://www.OnlyMyEmail.com/ReportSpam >> > THIS ELECTRONIC MESSAGE AND ANY ATTACHMENTS ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND >> > PROPRIETARY >> > PROPERTY OF THE SENDER. THE INFORMATION IS INTENDED FOR USE BY THE >> > ADDRESSEE >> > ONLY. ANY OTHER INTERCEPTION, COPYING, ACCESSING, OR DISCLOSURE OF THIS >> > MESSAGE IS PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS MESSAGE IN ERROR, >> > PLEASE >> > IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY THE SENDER AND DELETE THIS MAIL AND ALL ATTACHMENTS. >> > DO >> > NOT FORWARD THIS MESSAGE WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE SENDER. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIS ELECTRONIC MESSAGE AND ANY ATTACHMENTS ARE CONFIDENTIAL >> > AND PROPRIETARY PROPERTY OF THE SENDER. THE INFORMATION IS >> > INTENDED FOR USE BY THE ADDRESSEE ONLY. ANY OTHER INTERCEPTION, >> > COPYING, ACCESSING, OR DISCLOSURE OF THIS MESSAGE IS PROHIBITED. >> > IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS MESSAGE IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY >> > NOTIFY THE SENDER AND DELETE THIS MAIL AND ALL ATTACHMENTS. DO NOT >> > FORWARD THIS MESSAGE WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE SENDER. >> > >> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~
