Thin provisioning is very cool, but requires a great deal of monitoring to make it really effective (or to avoid self-inflicted injury)
*ASB* On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Jonathan Link <[email protected]>wrote: > Just to be clear, what you're describing is thin provisioning, not RAID or > even BeyondRaid. You've created volumes that report to the susbcribing OS > to be 16 TB in size, so you are at risk of oversubscribing your disk space. > You're using the features of BeyondRAID to handle providing additional > capacity to thin provisioned volumes when you add additional physical disks, > or replace disks with larger ones. > > > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Bob Hartung <[email protected]>wrote: > >> We've been using a Drobo Elite for about 6 months. It has seven 2 TB WD >> drives in it with dual redundant disks yielding 8.36 TB of available >> storage. I use it for Acronis backup images. >> >> One of the drives failed about a week after we installed them. The Drobo >> alerted me which drive had failed and I got a replacement and stuffed it in >> and it automatically rebuilt the array without any interruptions. >> >> Someone mentioned that the smallest drive somehow define capacity. That >> not true. If you go to the Data Robotics website, they have a space >> calculator app that tells you the usable storage space with any combination >> of drive sizes and redundancy settings. >> >> One of the biggest benefits I see with the Beyond RAID is volume size >> flexibility. On a typical RAID, if you specify a 500 MB volume and you reach >> that limit and need more you have to backup the data, destroy the volume and >> recreate it with a larger size and restore the data. >> >> With Beyond RAID, you can either specify a 500 MB volume and have the same >> situation as a conventional RAID. But you can also elect to make the Volume >> size 16 TB. Then you can let the volume grow as large as there is free space >> available on the installed drives. I make all my volumes 16 TB. If I start >> running out of room, I'll add another 2 TB drive. When that's full, I'll >> pull one of the 2 TB drives out and stick in a 4 TB drive (or whatever the >> current big drive available is). >> >> Other benefits... >> >> - No trays. You just stick the bare drive in. >> - Drive order is unimportant. If you shutdown the Drobo, pulled all >> the drives and stuck them back in randomly and fired it up, there'd be no >> problem. >> >> It's more expensive than a NAS but it's worth it for the Beyond RAID. It's >> also a lot less expensive than a typical SAN. >> >> I think it great technology. >> >> ---------------------- >> >> Bob Hartung >> Wisco Industries, Inc. >> 736 Janesville St. >> Oregon, WI 53575 >> Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215 >> Fax: (608) 835-7399 >> e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:[email protected]] >> *To:* NT System Admin Issues [mailto: >> [email protected]] >> *Sent:* Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:47:39 -0500 >> *Subject:* RE: Speaking of Drobo ... (was: SAN question) >> >> Ok, so lemme get this straight – you put in 7 TB of disk and only get 3 >> TB usable? Lovely. >> >> >> >> With traditional RAID, if you pulled the 1 TB drive out of that same >> equation, you’d have, ummmm 4 TB… >> >> >> >> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE >> >> Technology Coordinator >> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA >> * >> *[email protected]* >> *www.eaglemds.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* N Parr [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 11:44 AM >> >> *To:* NT System Admin Issues >> *Subject:* RE: Speaking of Drobo ... (was: SAN question) >> >> >> >> Pretty sure raid on the Drobo defined by the smallest drive in the array. >> So if you have 3 2TB drive and 1 1TB drive you will only get around 3TB of >> storage. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 10:36 AM >> *To:* NT System Admin Issues >> *Subject:* Speaking of Drobo ... (was: SAN question) >> >> Ok, so it SEEMS like a really cool device, but I honestly haven’t looked >> at it seriously since the device first came out a couple of years ago. When >> I first looked at it, I was like, ok, now THAT’s COOL. >> >> >> >> However, after thinking about it some, it just seemed like some black >> magic under the covers to get their “BeyondRAID” to work. When I >> originally looked at it, I couldn’t find any technical detail on how the >> product **really** worked, as that was “proprietary” (understandably so, >> but still, how am I going to get comfortable with it as a sysadmin, >> especially at the price if I’m on a budget – it would be an expensive toy. >> Traditional RAID is just much more comforting to me. If you have a big issue >> with multiple drives of different sizes on a drobo unit, how is data >> recovery going to go for you? If the controller fails, and you don’t have a >> support agreement, you can’t just go on serversuply.com and get parts… >> >> >> >> Does anyone here have any experience with data recovery on a failed drobo, >> or for that matter, simply a failed drive within a drobo where you had >> drives of different sizes in the configuration? >> >> >> >> I know “backup, backup, backup”, but what if the backup doesn’t work (or >> the customer/end user didn’t heed your advice)? >> >> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE >> Technology Coordinator >> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA* >> *[email protected]* >> * >> www.eaglemds.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Jonathan Link [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 11:16 AM >> *To:* NT System Admin Issues >> *Subject:* Re: SAN question >> >> >> >> +1 >> >> Going back to a previous comment of mine in another thread you started. >> Have you messed with OpenFiler, yet? You'll learn a lot. >> >> Also, based on your pretty low requirements, have you looked at the >> DroboElite? If it had been available when I started looking, I very well >> could've gone in this direction. As it is, I'm seriously considering it for >> backup duty. Storage for a backup server, and the ability to use it in a >> pinch if my EqualLogic goes down. >> >> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Raper, Jonathan - Eagle < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> John - I do not believe that we can help you significantly with this >> question. In the end, it really doesn't matter what any of us think, because >> our environments are all different and unique. What works well and may be >> appropriate for any of us, may be a horrible fit for you and cause you >> nothing but heartburn and stress. >> >> However, I would tend to agree with Niles. If you're not ready for a SAN, >> don't spend the money on it now. >> >> You really need to have a serious sit-down with the vendors/sales >> engineers (notice I said ENGINEER, not REP) of the different hardware, learn >> as much as you can from THEM, and ask LOTS of questions. Then ask them why >> you should choose their product over x, y, or z product. Take lots of notes, >> and then do the same thing all over again, no more than a few days apart so >> everything is still fresh in your head. >> >> Many times, some of the best education I've gotten has been from the >> manufacturers themselves. I've actually been to the EMC manufacturing >> facility in North Carolina - I spent two days there, on THEIR DIME to learn >> about their products (I had to get there & back, but after that, everything >> was on them). If you say to them, "I'd like an education on how your product >> works and whether or not it would be suitable for my needs and my >> applications.", you'll generally get plenty of intelligent people that will >> be happy to answer your questions. If they don't ask lots of questions about >> your environment and what your needs are, you're talking to the wrong >> people. >> >> I believe that the purpose of this list is really a, "I'm having trouble >> with x, has anyone seen this before?" or "why do you guys think x >> specification/technology is better than y", or "I'm having trouble getting >> this ADSIedit script working, what am I doing wrong?". >> >> I believe that if you sit down with the various manufacturers/reps, even >> if only on a webex session where they can whiteboard for you one on one, >> will answer many of your questions and make your original question about >> intelligence/disks seem trivial. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE >> Technology Coordinator >> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA >> [email protected] >> www.eaglemds.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: N Parr [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 10:26 AM >> To: NT System Admin Issues >> >> Subject: RE: SAN question >> >> I think you just need to give up on your SAN dreams and go buy a decent >> NAS for a couple grand and call it good. You just said it's going to be >> a file server for the time being so why spend the money for a SAN now if >> you don't need it. I bet if I look back through the archives you first >> brought this up at least 18 months ago. When, if , you do need a SAN >> down the road you won't have already spent a ton of $$ on what will then >> be old tech and you can start looking at what will then be new. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Aldrich [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:17 AM >> To: NT System Admin Issues >> Subject: SAN question >> >> Ok, guys. I'm trying to narrow down my many choices with regards to our >> on-going search for a SAN manufacturer. I'd like your thoughts on the >> whole question of adding more intelligence vs just adding more disks. >> i.e. the EQ vs LeftHand models. >> >> I can see arguments to be made for both models. I'll tell you that, >> initially, the SAN is going to be a glorified file server, however, we >> plan on hosting our email data store on the SAN when we bring email >> in-house later on. I've already verified with the email vendor that I >> hope to use that this is not a problem, so that's a non-issue. Other >> than that, the only database we would store on the SAN would possibly be >> the database from our Vipre install, although initially that would stay >> on the local storage. >> >> So, I'd like to see some discussions of the benefits of just adding a >> tray of "dumb drives" or adding a complete controller along with the >> drives (a la >> LeftHand.) >> >> I just don't know enough about the benefits of each model to know what >> would work best for us. I'm hoping that you guys who are more >> experienced would give me the benefit of your knowledge. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> John Aldrich >> IT Manager, >> Blueridge Carpet >> 706-276-2001, Ext. 2233 >> >> >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to [email protected] >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to [email protected] >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> Any medical information contained in this electronic message is >> CONFIDENTIAL and privileged. 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