Developing on what Frank said…

This is a question I always ask applicants…"When should you premultiply an 
image”. 

Everyone knows when you unpremultiply (grading etc) but the premultiply usually 
gets them.
The answer is (at least) when you apply some sort of filter - blurs are the 
most obvious but this case is also included.

If you resize/distort before you pull the key you are adding an extra filter to 
the pixels which will affect the edge pixels between the FG and GS background.
If you key first -> premult (if not already) -> resize you get better keying. 

So I always teach that you key first then apply transforms/blurs etc…
Attached is a clear example - transforms/reformats are a more subtle version of 
the same issue.

Howard Jones
Visual Effects Supervisor
m: 07973 265624 | e: how...@axis-vfx.com | w: www.axis-vfx.com

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> On 16 Feb 2017, at 08:45, Sven Schönmann <sven.schoenm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Vielen Dank for your time on this matter, Frank! ;)
> 
> Concerning grain - Neat Video will be my friend.
> 
> Have a great day...
> 
> Sven
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 2:45 AM, Frank Rueter|OHUfx <fr...@ohufx.com 
> <mailto:fr...@ohufx.com>> wrote:
> I personally always lean towards working on the original stuff before 
> introducing anything that may be arbitrary (such as filters for the reformat).
> That way things always seem more predictable and transferable between 
> multiple shots.
> E.g. if you chose a filter for the reformat that sharpens a lot that, that 
> might create havoc with a subsequent key.
> Depending on the footage you also need to think about how to reconcile the 
> grain/noise patterns to match the different plates. Obviously one plate will 
> have stretched noise.
> 
> However, it always comes down to testing things properly and making an 
> informed decision in context of the footage.
> As long as the workflow is based on an informed decision and not the result 
> of random trial&error, I do believe in the ol' "if it looks good you are 
> right".
> 
> Cheers,
> frank
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/02/17 2:09 PM, Sven Schönmann wrote:
>> Ok, one last thing: I have a couple of raw greenscreen plates and their 
>> according graded versions. Is there a "right way" to do the keying process?
>> 
>> 1) pull the key/matte from the undistorted plate -> distort the resulting 
>> matte plate & the graded plate
>> 
>> 2) distort the raw & graded plate -> pull the key from the distorted raw 
>> plate
>> 
>> Way one seems more "correct" and clean to me. Way two might result in a 
>> slightly worse greenscreen plate with wrong or missing details because of 
>> the transforming process. Or is this wrong and both ways result in a 
>> mathematically equal result?
>> 
>> Thanks again!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 1:47 AM, Frank Rueter|OHUfx <fr...@ohufx.com 
>> <mailto:fr...@ohufx.com>> wrote:
>> Just remember that pixel aspects are just a concept to correlate the 
>> physical resolution of an image to what it should look like.
>> There is no such thing as a non-square pixel in this context, so it's either 
>> making the images appear to be (un-)distorted via a viewer setting (based on 
>> a factor called "pixel aspect") or physically (un-)distorting them. The 
>> latter is required when combing different PAs, the former is required to 
>> view the images the way the final output media will show them (i.e. 
>> seemingly undistorted).
>> 
>> When this gets confusing it's best to turn off the pixel aspect compensation 
>> in the viewer so what you see is what you get.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 16/02/17 10:50 AM, Sven Schönmann wrote:
>>> Righty, I was expecting that.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for getting back on this Frank.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Frank Rueter|OHUfx <fr...@ohufx.com 
>>> <mailto:fr...@ohufx.com>> wrote:
>>> If you mix different PAs you have no choice but to physically 
>>> squeeze/stretch to match.
>>> I tend to set up Reformat nodes to bring the supplementary clips in line 
>>> with the main plate and ensure that transform concatenation is solid.
>>> 
>>> But that's pretty much it. Technically using a 0.5 scale in your transform 
>>> is fine too. You have to do what you have to do.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 16/02/17 5:31 AM, Sven Schönmann wrote:
>>>> Hey everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I have the same situation like Lee has in the forum: 
>>>> 
>>>> https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/129006 
>>>> <https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/129006>
>>>> 
>>>> In my case I hit the point that mighty Frank is mentioning:
>>>> 
>>>> "Unless you are mixing different aspect ratios you should not have to 
>>>> physically un-squeeze the footage (which would only introduce filter 
>>>> hits)."
>>>> 
>>>> So, that's exactly my case. How should I approach the workflow when 
>>>> bringing in standard square pixel footage to merge? Using a Transform with 
>>>> a width of "0.5" seems awfully wrong. Is doubling the pixel width of my 
>>>> anamorphic footage the correct way? Seems also not very attractive to 
>>>> double the pixel count...and also some filter issues like Frank mentioned.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> 
>>>> Sven
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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