On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 6:34 AM Mark Harfouche <mark.harfou...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 6:46 AM Sebastian Berg <sebast...@sipsolutions.net> > wrote: >> >> On Mon, 2024-05-06 at 09:17 +1000, Matti Picus wrote: >> > On 05/05/2024 11:32, Mark Harfouche wrote: >> > >> > but to me it makes sense to support it for the >> > large 2.0 release. >> > The release will not be without problems rippling throughout the community. > SPEC0 effectively asks downstream packages to: > "Focus on Python 3.10 in 2024". But the introduction of "numpy 2.0" without > updated downstream packages will surely break some. > If these breakages occur, packages will have to think about whether or not to > backport a release for those stuck on Python 3.9. > This is something that was identified as a potential risk > https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/26191 and you have all been very > proactive in helping resolve the issues. > I'm asking that you let Python 3.9 support disappear with 1.26, and not "drop > a final version" before you decide to move on with 3.10+ only.
I don't understand NumPy supporting Python 3.9 means you have to also. A downstream dependent only has to support at most the versions you do. If NumPy dropped Python 3.9 but you wanted to keep it that would be a problem, but the reverse isn't because scikit-image depends on NumPy, not the other way around. > > On the list above is, Scikit-image, which I am a core developer of, and you > have all identified as being compatible with Numpy 2.0 starting 0.23.1 does > not have a CPython 3.9 build for 0.23.1 on pypi. > https://pypi.org/project/scikit-image/0.23.1/#files > It also lists as being compatible with numpy >=1.22 in its dependencies as > this was understood to be the best practice at the time > https://github.com/scikit-image/scikit-image/blob/v0.22.x/pyproject.toml#L29 > > Thus a project that uses Python 3.9 + pip + scikit-image will type > > pip install scikit-image > > and this can pull in numpy 2.0 > I sadly haven't followed too closely with the full list of fixes for numpy > 2.0 that were introduced in the 0.23.1 release, but I'm not looking forward > to explaining to users why "Python" broke "again" on python 3.9. I rather expect the packaging issues that will arise when NumPy 2.0 is released will be more general than this. The central issue being that no one pinned NumPy < 2 until recently (and I'm sure many aren't even doing it at all yet), and on PyPI, there's no way to update pinning metadata except by doing a new patch release. Maybe someone could do an analysis of the metadata on PyPI to see whether this specific issue is likely to occur broadly or is just specific to scikit-image. Aaron Meurer > > Scikit-image is an active project, with many eyes on it, and it seems many > fixes for Numpy2 were already in the 0.22.0 release, but smaller projects > will not have been so proactive. > >> I think it is late anyway and NumPy always had a slightly longer >> support period and that seemed fine especially since NumPy is low in >> the stack. >> >> The SPEC was written to give the community that precedence and show >> that many agree with you (and numpy endorses it). >> Maybe the "endorsed by" list should rather be grown to strengthen the >> argument instead? > > > I am asking that Numpy be included in the list of packages that adhere to it > making the whole SPEC stronger. > "Endorsed" but not adhered to is a much weaker argument than: "this is what > numpy follows", "if the policy is good enough for them is good enough for us". > It's very difficult to convince others when they see numpy as not following > things, so they say "well its working now, lets just keep the CIs the same". > It only grows the support burden for the strained open source we have (our > time). > _______________________________________________ > NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- numpy-discussion@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to numpy-discussion-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/numpy-discussion.python.org/ > Member address: asmeu...@gmail.com _______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- numpy-discussion@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to numpy-discussion-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/numpy-discussion.python.org/ Member address: arch...@mail-archive.com
