On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 3:28 PM Nathan via NumPy-Discussion < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 7:02 AM Ralf Gommers via NumPy-Discussion < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 2:06 PM Hugo van Kemenade <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I believe Azure Pipelines and GitHub Actions essentially use the same >>> infra, and Azure Pipelines is also dropping macOS Intel x86-64: >>> >> >> I don't think that is correct. They use the same *runner images* and the >> macos-13 image is indeed deprecated for Azure as well, but there's a large >> difference in the hardware offered. Azure only just started giving preview >> access to macOS arm64 runners, and macos-14/15 images still run on x86-64 >> hardware by default. >> >> That said, I'm really not a fan of trying to move to Azure, for multiple >> reasons: >> 1. It's a lot of work for a temporary extension of the support window only >> 2. Azure is pretty awful to work with, and we have never done any release >> builds on Azure. Starting now is very unappealing. >> 3. Release process wise there are both new opportunities for mistakes, >> and also we'd not be able to do synchronized uploads so Chuck would have to >> upload the macOS x86-64 wheels manually before starting the trusted >> publishing process (to avoid sdist becoming visible to users first). >> 4. It indeed would prevent from fully moving to trusted publishing and no >> longer doing manual uploads (however, the security aspect is not the most >> important to me here, we only delay an improvement, it's not really a >> regression). >> >> The case for doing the extra work isn't all that compelling, since NumPy >> is quite easy to build on macOS - it's the easiest platform by some >> distance, even easier than Linux because it's the only platform where a >> BLAS library is always available (unless a user is still on macOS <=12, >> which is a really small fraction of users). So it's very easy to build >> compared to SciPy, Matplotlib, etc. - and I very much doubt that those >> projects will be building on Azure. >> >> *** >> >> What Andrew suggests would be the more reasonable route: if testing with >> cibuildwheel for x86-64 on arm64 through Rosetta works, we can decide to >> accept that some features are not as well tested as they should be, but at >> least most functionality is tested, and for the rest we rely on it not >> changing. >> >> I'm not as convinced as Andrew that this will work, but I also don't know >> that it won't. So let's see if we can move to macos-15 on arm64 and get >> this to work? If it works well enough, then keep support for one more year >> (and if not, then not)? >> > > This makes sense to me. Let’s make a best-effort attempt using whatever > approach cibuildwheel promulgates based on rosetta. If it requires a bunch > of extra work we can re-assess. > It can be made to work, but it isn't super easy. Here is a working build with OpenBLAS https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/29756. That took quite a while to get right. I briefly tried the Accelerate build, but that didn't seem to be detected. I'll wait with doing more until cibuildwheel decides whether this stays a cross build or will be changed to a native build under Rosetta2 (https://github.com/pypa/cibuildwheel/issues/2592). Cheers, Ralf > > Apple’s last Intel-based hardware came out in 2019. That’s not too long > ago and it would be a shame to encourage people to create more e-waste if > we can reasonably avoid it. > > >> Cheers, >> Ralf >> >> >> >>> > mac-OS 13 Ventura >>> > In accordance with our policy to support the n-1 version of OS images, >>> we will initiate the deprecation of macOS 13 Ventura starting 1st September >>> 2025, with plans to retire it by 14th November 2025. Customers currently >>> utilizing macOS-13 in their pipelines are encouraged to transition to >>> macOS-14 or macOS-15 images. >>> > >>> > Key Dates: >>> > • Deprecation Start Date: 1st September 2025 >>> > • Full Retiral Date: 14th November 2025 >>> >>> >>> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/devops/upcoming-updates-for-azure-pipelines-agents-images/#mac-os >>> >>> (Although I see [1] above has delayed the schedule by one month: now >>> starting 1st Oct, complete by 4th Dec, so I expect AP will follow this too.) >>> >>> Hugo >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3//lists/numpy-discussion.python.org >>> Member address: [email protected] >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3//lists/numpy-discussion.python.org >> Member address: [email protected] >> > _______________________________________________ > NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman3//lists/numpy-discussion.python.org > Member address: [email protected] >
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