Dave,
Just to make sure the requirement is understood correctly I added some 
clarification below...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> David Freedman
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 2:38 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVO3 Data Plane Requirements: QoS identifier in
> overlay header?
> 
> Wearing a cloud provider hat, I have to agree with David,
> 
> Whilst I can think of a number of uses for marking the overlay, I
> wouldn't want to limit us to not being able to do customer or core
> controlled service CoS should we want to.

[FB>] The current text in the document does not exclude the customer or core 
controlled service CoS. We are talking about a CoS field in the service tag 
that may be used for marking/transporting the service CoS. One may choose at 
every hop the header field used in the packet header to derive the CoS 
treatment: i.e. the tunnel header, the service tag or even the header from the 
customer payload - see my initial text for use cases. 

The requirement is tagged as a SHOULD not as a MUST anyhow. 

> 
> Dave.
> 
> 
> 
> On 28/06/2012 21:46, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >Ok, but NVO3 is applicable to (and the overlays will be deployed in) a
> >lot more than just cloud provider environments.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >--David
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> >>Of Balus,  Florin Stelian (Florin)
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:14 PM
> >> To: Black, David; [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVO3 Data Plane Requirements: QoS identifier in
> >>overlay  header?
> >>
> >>
> >> We can consider changing in the next version SHOULD to a MAY if that
> >>is the WG  consensus. Would like to hear though on the list or during
> >>the session in  Vancouver from more people, ideally from a cloud
> >>provider environment.
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:34 PM
> >> > To: Balus, Florin Stelian (Florin); [email protected]
> >> > Subject: RE: [nvo3] NVO3 Data Plane Requirements: QoS identifier
> in
> >> > overlay header?
> >> >
> >> > Florin,
> >> >
> >> > I think I see where our views diverge.  If one considers a service
> >> > provider environment running a VPN technology that supports both
> >> > service and underlay CoS, then one has three CoS layers,
> especially
> >> > when the underlay CoS field has expressibility limits (e.g., MPLS
> >> > support for DiffServ is constrained by the 3-bit size of the EXP
> >> > field and other competing uses for those bits).
> >> >
> >> > OTOH, there are plenty of other environments for nvo3 overlays
> >> > where there aren't three CoS layers and there aren't serious
> >> > expressibility problems in the outermost CoS field (e.g., the DSCP
> >> > field in the IP header imposes no limits on DiffServ
> expressibility
> >> > beyond those in
> >>the
> >> > basic DiffServ architecture).  Enterprise environments are among
> >> > those that provide examples.
> >> > IPsec VPNs also provide examples under the assumption that the
> >> > tunnels are end-to-end wrt boundaries between service provider
> networks.
> >> >
> >> > So while I agree that there are environments in which the CoS
> field
> >>can
> >> > be "useful", that's as far as I would go.  Specifically, I don't
> >> > think the across-the-board "SHOULD" in the draft is justifiable or
> >> > appropriate in general.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > --David
> >> >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> >> > > Behalf Of Balus, Florin Stelian (Florin)
> >> > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 2:06 PM
> >> > > To: Black, David; [email protected]
> >> > > Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVO3 Data Plane Requirements: QoS identifier
> >> > > in overlay header?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > David,
> >> > >
> >> > > Sorry about the delay, was out in vacation for a while and I
> >> > > missed your email.
> >> > >
> >> > > In section 3.3.1.2 the text above the paragraph you mention
> below
> >> > > is describing why this is required. Let me try a practical
> explanation.
> >> > > When using different overlay/VPN technologies Service Providers
> >> > > have available CoS indicators at 3 levels:
> >> > > - customer/tenant controlled CoS (e.g. DSCP/dot1p bits in the
> >> > > inner
> >> > > payload)
> >> > > - service CoS visible in the NVE/PE (e.g. 3 exp bits in the VPN
> >> > > label/dot1p bits in IEEE ISID)
> >> > > - tunnel/core CoS visible in the NVE and Core Nodes (e.g. 3 exp
> >> > > bits in the tunnel label/dot1p bits in IEEE BVLAN)
> >> > >
> >> > > The last two are under the control of the Service Provider and
> >> > > may
> >>be
> >> > > used for different CoS schemes. For example 6 service CoS may be
> >>used
> >> > > in the NVE/PEs while only 4 may be used in the core. This could
> >> > > be because of available queuing/different
> oversubscription/number
> >> > > of flows/operational requirements in different network
> >> > > devices/admin
> >> > domains.
> >> > >
> >> > > CoS usage may change as the packet transitions between different
> >> > > SP administrative domains. At the handoff between domains there
> >> > > are
> >> > rules
> >> > > to map one SP CoS definition to the one for the next domain. The
> >> > > presence of these fields is useful because there is no need to
> be
> >> > > aware about customer CoS definitions to map to the next CoS
> domain:
> >> > > i.e. if I am domain 2 network admin I just need to understand
> >> > > domain
> >> > 1
> >> > > CoS definition not how their individual customers marked their
> CoS.
> >> > > Also there is no need to dig on the next encap level.
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this helps clarify the text...
> >> > >
> >> > > Florin
> >> > >
> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> >> > Behalf
> >> > > > Of [email protected]
> >> > > > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 5:05 PM
> >> > > > To: [email protected]
> >> > > > Subject: [nvo3] NVO3 Data Plane Requirements: QoS identifier
> in
> >> > > > overlay header?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Catching up ...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > In draft-bl-nvo3-dataplane-requirements-00.txt, the last
> >> > > > paragraph in Section 3.3.1.2. Service QoS identifier says:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >    Support for NVE Service CoS SHOULD be provided through a
> QoS
> >> > field,
> >> > > >    inside the NVO3 overlay header. Examples of service CoS
> >>provided
> >> > > >    part of the service tag are 802.1p and DE bits in the VLAN
> >> > > > and
> >> > PBB
> >> > > >    ISID tags and MPLS EXP bits in the VPN labels.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Why "inside the NVO3 overlay header"?  Earlier in the section,
> >> > > > IP DSCP and Ethernet 802.1p are mentioned as examples of CoS
> >> > > > (Class
> >>of
> >> > > > Service) indicators and QoS fields - when used between NVEs,
> >> > > > these
> >> > > > (obviously) belong in the outer IP and outer Ethernet headers
> >> > respectively.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > What's the rationale for an additional QoS field in the
> overlay
> >> > header?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > --David
> >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer EMC Corporation, 176
> >> > > > South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
> >> > > > +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
> >> > > > [email protected]        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
> >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
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> >> > > > [email protected]
> >> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
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> >>
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