Agreed. It may be a practical matter for entropy over older devices (depending 
on the encap) which is likely a requirement.

Peter

On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:45 PM, "Somesh Gupta" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I think multiple IPs per NVE will have to show up in the
> solution - we can wait and see.
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Balus, Florin Stelian (Florin) [mailto:florin.balus@alcatel-
>> lucent.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 11:00 AM
>> To: Somesh Gupta; Ivan Pepelnjak
>> Cc: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: [nvo3] Support for multi-homed NVEs
>> 
>> AFAIK the text in NVO3 framework and requirements drafts allows
>> multiple IPs per NVE. We have multiple IPs per PE in current VPN
>> implementations. This is an implementation matter though in my opinion.
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Somesh Gupta [mailto:[email protected]]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 10:51 AM
>>> To: Ivan Pepelnjak; Balus, Florin Stelian (Florin)
>>> Cc: [email protected]
>>> Subject: RE: [nvo3] Support for multi-homed NVEs
>>> 
>>> Florin,
>>> 
>>> Regarding the multi-homing, my assumption is that the NVE in the
>>> hypervisor would not (want to) run a routing protocol. So as Ivan
>>> points out, the standard would need to accommodate multiple IP
>>> addresses per NVE.
>>> 
>>> Somesh
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Ivan Pepelnjak [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 9:58 AM
>>>> To: Balus, Florin Stelian (Florin)
>>>> Cc: Somesh Gupta; [email protected]
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] Support for multi-homed NVEs
>>>> 
>>>> Ah, that other can of worms ;) Mine was simpler.
>>>> 
>>>> On the underlay side, we might decide that NVEs have a single IP
>>>> address or multiple IP addresses (like some NVGRE load balancing
>>>> proposals). If we decide NVEs have a single IP address (potential
>> per
>>>> virtual network segment), then the rest is implementation details
>>> (and
>>>> we're back to MLAG/SMLT land for true redundancy). Alternatively we
>>>> might implement the option of having multiple IP addresses per NVE,
>>>> and the NVEs might use the IP-address-per-link option (thus no need
>>>> for L2 or MLAG at all).
>>>> 
>>>> On the overlay side, the real problem (as you stated) is the
>>>> multi-homing of NVO3-to-legacy gateways. I don't see any other need
>>>> for overlay NVE multihoming.
>>>> 
>>>> BTW, Nicira has nicely solved the NVO3 gateway multihoming - the
>>> whole
>>>> NVO3 network works exactly like VMware's vSwitch: split horizon
>>>> bridging (thus no forwarding loops through NVO3), with every VM MAC
>>>> address being dynamically assigned to one of the gateways, which
>> also
>>>> solves the return path issues (dynamic MAC learning in legacy
>> network
>>>> takes care of that). Maybe we should just use the wheel that has
>>>> already been invented?
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Ivan
>>>> 
>>>> On 9/4/12 6:45 PM, Balus, Florin Stelian (Florin) wrote:
>>>>> I understand the discussion below is about the NVE multi-homing
>>>> towards the IP core, on the tunnel side.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We did not focus in the framework draft on the core redundancy as
>>> in
>>>> our opinion there was no need to standardize anything here. There
>> are
>>>> no differences from what is available today in regular IP networks:
>>> if
>>>> NVEs are multi-homed directly to the next IP router, regular
>> routing
>>>> will take care of it. If there is Ethernet switching in between NVE
>>>> and the next IP hop, L2 resiliency mechanisms need to be employed.
>>>> From what I read below it looks more of an implementation
>> discussion
>>>> than a standardization requirement. Am I right?
>>>>> 
>>>>> By Multi-homed NVEs one can also understand a set of NVEs
>>>>> multi-homed
>>>> on the access side to other devices. That is a discussion we need
>> to
>>>> have in my opinion. An use case example: NVO3 network - NVE GWs
>>> multi-
>>>> homed to external non-NVO3 networks. Handoff can be VLANs, VPLS
>> PWs,
>>>> or BGP EVPN labels...
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the latter is worth discussing although there are some
>>>> mechanisms and some standardization initiatives in place already.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of
>>>>>> Ivan Pepelnjak
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 12:23 AM
>>>>>> To: 'Somesh Gupta'; [email protected]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] Support for multi-homed NVEs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is definitely an interesting can of worms ;)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> While I don't think we should go down the path of IP-A/IP-B
>>>>>> networks similar to some other DC technology, we will face the
>>>>>> reality of
>>>> some
>>>>>> NVE elements (hypervisor soft switches) not being underlay IP
>>>> routers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We could either:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (A) ignore the issue and expect the network designer to solve it
>>>> using
>>>>>> any one of the existing NIC teaming/MLAG kludges while retaining
>> a
>>>>>> single encapsulation IP address per NVE;
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (B) provide support for multiple encapsulation addresses per NVE
>>> so
>>>> a
>>>>>> multi-homed NVE could have one IP address per physical interface
>>>>>> and send and receive nvo3-encapsulated frames using more than
>> one
>>>> address.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Option (A) is the easy way out similar to existing MPLS/VPN
>>>>>> behavior and would fit well with existing DC deployments. It
>> would
>>>>>> also
>>>> retain
>>>>>> all the server-to-ToR multihoming complexity.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Option (B) would reduce the complexity of the underlay DC
>> network
>>>>>> (which would become a simple L3 network with single-homed IP
>>>>>> addresses), but we'd have to deal with a bunch of additional
>>>> problems
>>>>>> (peer IP address liveliness check).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just speculating ...
>>>>>> Ivan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Somesh Gupta
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 6:58 AM
>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>> Subject: [nvo3] Support for multi-homed NVEs
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I did not see any mention of multi-homed NVEs in draft-
>> lasserre-
>>>> nvo3-
>>>>>>> framework-03.txt. NVEs are connected together by an L3 network
>> -
>>>> does
>>>>>>> that mean only one?
>>>>>>> Can it be multi-homes to two L3 networks?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Somesh
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nvo3 mailing list
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nvo3 mailing list
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
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